No COVID boosters this Fall?

[hal2kilo]

Are we running out of vaccine? Why do we need to focus on only one group?

Because he doesn't want himself or others having their POE (purity of essence) adjusted.

 

[Pens1566]

"You would have a point if getting the booster lowers a person chance of getting COVID at all(The type of protection that the Measles vaccine gives a person), but the Booster doesn't do that either."

My original point that the COVID vaccine doesn't provide the same level of protection(As you say the pathogens are different) that the Measles vaccine provides because which would be a good reason to push more people to get vaccinated/boosted. The COVID vaccine works more like a pre-infection treatment to lower the severity of your infection. While the Measles vaccine can prevent you from getting sick at all and becoming infectious. If there was a COVID vaccine available that is shown to significantly lower the chance of someone getting COVID and being infectious that would be a good reason to try and encourage everyone to get a updated booster. Even those in low risk groups. Until we have that type of vaccine we should focus on people in the highest risk groups getting vaccinated to lower the severity of their infection.

It's becoming clearer that you really don't know what it is you're attempting to talk about here.

"Why can't vaccine for pathogen X act just like the vaccine for pathogen Y?" isn't really a great hill to die on. And now we're wandering into the whole "vaccine definition argument" territory.

I'm done here. Best of luck.

 

[Brovane]

Are we running out of vaccine? Why do we need to focus on only one group?

The potential benefits need to outweigh the potential harms, would you agree? https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/24b944c1a77fbed7/209038df-full.pdf

The decrease in the chance of developing severe COVID-19 means that the potential for absolute benefit from vaccination has simultaneously decreased. Even rare vaccination-related harms, both known and unknown, now have a higher chance of outweighing potential benefits in non-high-risk populations. Some harm-benefit analyses suggested net harm of ongoing vaccination of low-risk populations. Post-vaccination myocarditis is a known risk of the Novavax vaccine, and there have been unfavorable imbalances in rates of neurological, cardiac, and thrombotic adverse events among vaccine recipients reported by the Applicant. These adverse events could represent significant risks for which studies to date have been underpowered to confidently attribute to vaccination. Although the FDA monitors the safety of all vaccines through post-market surveillance, it is important to acknowledge times at which the potential for benefit from vaccination among non-high-risk individuals is small and poorly defined.

 

[Brovane]

It's becoming clearer that you really don't know what it is you're attempting to talk about here.

"Why can't vaccine for pathogen X act just like the vaccine for pathogen Y?" isn't really a great hill to die on. And now we're wandering into the whole "vaccine definition argument" territory.

I'm done here. Best of luck.

Best of luck to you.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The potential benefits need to outweigh the potential harms, would you agree? https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/24b944c1a77fbed7/209038df-full.pdf

The decrease in the chance of developing severe COVID-19 means that the potential for absolute benefit from vaccination has simultaneously decreased. Even rare vaccination-related harms, both known and unknown, now have a higher chance of outweighing potential benefits in non-high-risk populations. Some harm-benefit analyses suggested net harm of ongoing vaccination of low-risk populations. Post-vaccination myocarditis is a known risk of the Novavax vaccine, and there have been unfavorable imbalances in rates of neurological, cardiac, and thrombotic adverse events among vaccine recipients reported by the Applicant. These adverse events could represent significant risks for which studies to date have been underpowered to confidently attribute to vaccination. Although the FDA monitors the safety of all vaccines through post-market surveillance, it is important to acknowledge times at which the potential for benefit from vaccination among non-high-risk individuals is small and poorly defined.

You mean this guy? Who compared the COVID response to Nazi Germany?

How Democracy Ends

COVID19 policy shows a (potential) path to the end of America

www.drvinayprasad.com

Appointed by Commissioner Martin Makary? The anti-vaxxer?

FDA Appoints New Director of CBER | BioPharm International

Dr. Vinay Prasad, MD, MPH, a hematologist-oncologist, has been chosen to lead the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research at FDA.

www.biopharminternational.com

The fuck are you using this guy as your source?

If you're an antivaxxer, just fucking say it so we can ignore you right and proper right the fuck now.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

What will gun toting vengeful Trumpists do when they discover their so called God killed a beloved family member?

They'll say COVID is fake just like they have been the last five years when it has happened.

 

[Brovane]

You mean this guy? Who compared the COVID response to Nazi Germany?

How Democracy Ends

COVID19 policy shows a (potential) path to the end of America

www.drvinayprasad.com

Seems right on target to me. I kind of considered it weird that you are ok with these types of actions by the government especially considering the current regime in charge.
FYI - Not that it is any of your business, but I am current with all my vaccinations.

The key factors that currently exist and may pave the way to totalitarianism are the following:

1. Strong force, including military force, has been used in other western, democratic nations to combat a respiratory virus

2. The public has accepted severe restrictions on movement and commerce in the face of respiratory pandemic, with many calls for greater restrictions to be applied

3. The media is able to present vignettes or anecdotes about overwhelmed hospitals or the untimely death of a young person, without acknowledging the denominator or comparing the risk to other risks we accept.

4. The rise of social media corporations means that public dialog increasingly occurs in spaces that can be regulated.

5. American increasingly comfortable with regulating and censoring information

6. The idea of safety as a virtue above all other dominates the culture

7. The party that favored stronger application of force during the COVID19 pandemic is vulnerable to misuse of force for a respiratory virus from the counterparty in the future

 

[Moonbeam]

They'll say COVID is fake just like they have been the last five years when it has happened.

Pretty much what I envisioned, one form of rationalization or another. Thumbs up!

 

[Muse]

This is what happens when you put an anti-vaccine crank in charge of HHS who appoints his crank buddies. And it was egged on by bullshit media headlines for years that launder anti-vaccine propaganda as "skepticism". A lot of journalists are failing the "don't print lies" test, and fail to understand that you don't have to give equal weight to the crank and the entire body of science.

I'm at the point where I am miffed when TV news chants the Trump administration's position on an issue. My truth meter needle gets pinned to Monstrous Lie.

 

[Paratus]

The potential benefits need to outweigh the potential harms, would you agree? https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/24b944c1a77fbed7/209038df-full.pdf

The decrease in the chance of developing severe COVID-19 means that the potential for absolute benefit from vaccination has simultaneously decreased. Even rare vaccination-related harms, both known and unknown, now have a higher chance of outweighing potential benefits in non-high-risk populations. Some harm-benefit analyses suggested net harm of ongoing vaccination of low-risk populations. Post-vaccination myocarditis is a known risk of the Novavax vaccine, and there have been unfavorable imbalances in rates of neurological, cardiac, and thrombotic adverse events among vaccine recipients reported by the Applicant. These adverse events could represent significant risks for which studies to date have been underpowered to confidently attribute to vaccination. Although the FDA monitors the safety of all vaccines through post-market surveillance, it is important to acknowledge times at which the potential for benefit from vaccination among non-high-risk individuals is small and poorly defined.

That’s a lot of words and no risk likelihoods numbers.

The risk of long covid symptoms is single to double digit percentages of people who have caught COVID while the risk of myocarditis was about 6-7/100,000 for vaccine recipients. Orders of magnitude lower. And the vaccine reduces your chance of long COVID by double digit percentages.

As a safety engineer I’ll take that risk trade any day of the week.

 

[Pens1566]

For the record, on myocarditis risks ... covid vaccinations have NEVER been linked to an incidence rate higher than that of the general population. Myocarditis can be caused by any infection, is almost always mild, and is most often found in adolescent males.

Additionally, the myocarditis rate in actual covid patients is something like 10x higher than gen pop.

TLDR;
Myocarditis risk chances
Vaccinated < Gen pop < Actual covid infection

Tell me, which would you pick?

For future reference, the myocarditis angle is a dead giveaway that someone is regurgitating things they don't understand, and/or haven't really looked at it.

 

[Brovane]

That’s a lot of words and no risk likelihoods numbers.

Citations are noted here.

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/24b944c1a77fbed7/209038df-full.pdf

The risk of long covid symptoms is single to double digit percentages of people who have caught COVID while the risk of myocarditis was about 6-7/100,000 for vaccine recipients. Orders of magnitude lower. And the vaccine reduces your chance of long COVID by double digit percentages.

What are you defining as a long COVID symptom? The risk of developing long COVID has continually declined with each new variant. Those at greatest risk of Long COVID developing from COVID are older adults (Age 65+) and those wind underlying health conditions and those who were not ever vaccinated against COVID. Are you talking about Vaccine or getting the latest booster when you say a vaccine reduces your chances of long COVID?

 

[Brovane]

For the record, on myocarditis risks ... covid vaccinations have NEVER been linked to an incidence rate higher than that of the general population. Myocarditis can be caused by any infection, is almost always mild, and is most often found in adolescent males.

Additionally, the myocarditis rate in actual covid patients is something like 10x higher than gen pop.

You would have to measure it against the population in question which is the low risk population for COVID which is those under age 50 with no known health risk's. That population has a very low risk of severe COVID and getting myocarditis from a COVID infections. So low the risk of getting COVID and myocarditis

TLDR;
Myocarditis risk chances
Vaccinated < Gen pop < Actual covid infection

Tell me, which would you pick?

Wouldn't you need to break out the population into the risk group we are talking about?

 

[Pens1566]

You would have to measure it against the population in question which is the low risk population for COVID which is those under age 50 with no known health risk's. That population has a very low risk of severe COVID and getting myocarditis from a COVID infections. So low the risk of getting COVID and myocarditis




Wouldn't you need to break out the population into the risk group we are talking about?

That actually makes the argument worse as myocarditis risk is highest among like the 12-25 age group.

All of the studies/literature are pretty clear on that ranking. And none of the results are even close. Talking order of magnitude range. It's a red herring.

 

[Muse]

Are you talking about Vaccine or getting the latest booster when you say a vaccine reduces your chances of long COVID?

Either one would very likely be the case. IOW Both. And long covid is not very well understood. If you have it there's substantial reason to suspect you're suffering consequences that you don't realize and for a protracted period. Plus, if symptoms you're aware of disappear that doesn't mean you're out of the woods... until you die. It's best to be vaccinated and boosted, and of course, unexposed. Odds of being exposed are increased if the government refuses to boost a large part of the population. So, people contracting covid-19 increase, which boosts the probability of new strains forming, the nature of which cannot be predicted.

 

[hal2kilo]

That actually makes the argument worse as myocarditis risk is highest among like the 12-25 age group.

All of the studies/literature are pretty clear on that ranking. And none of the results are even close. Talking order of magnitude range. It's a red herring.

There's a huge population of people out there these days who have 0 sense of proportion.

 

[Pens1566]

There's a huge population of people out there these days who have 0 sense of proportion.

One of the things I learned during the COVID days was that very few people really understand statistics. Or biology.

 

[Brovane]

Either one would very likely be the case. IOW Both. And long covid is not very well understood. If you have it there's substantial reason to suspect you're suffering consequences that you don't realize and for a protracted period. Plus, if symptoms you're aware of disappear that doesn't mean you're out of the woods... until you die. It's best to be vaccinated and boosted, and of course, unexposed. Odds of being exposed are increased if the government refuses to boost a large part of the population. So, people contracting covid-19 increase, which boosts the probability of new strains forming, the nature of which cannot be predicted.

So why does the European Medical establishment not recommend annual COVID boosters for the those not of high-risk of COVID if the boosters reduce the chance of long COVID across all risk groups?

That actually makes the argument worse as myocarditis risk is highest among like the 12-25 age group.

All of the studies/literature are pretty clear on that ranking. And none of the results are even close. Talking order of magnitude range. It's a red herring.

From what I have seen people way over-estimate the chance of a low risk age group of having severe COVID. Especially with the current variants circulating. For them, COVID lands somewhere between a cold and the flu. Especially when you consider that most people in low risk age groups have not only have had COVID several times (Cleared the virus) they also received the original vaccine in 2021-2022 timeframe. This is probably way European countries are aligned with not recommending boosters for those in the low risk age groups.

 

[Pens1566]

So why does the European Medical establishment not recommend annual COVID boosters for the those not of high-risk of COVID if the boosters reduce the chance of long COVID across all risk groups?



From what I have seen people way over-estimate the chance of a low risk age group of having severe COVID. Especially with the current variants circulating. For them, COVID lands somewhere between a cold and the flu. Especially when you consider that most people in low risk age groups have not only have had COVID several times (Cleared the virus) they also received the original vaccine in 2021-2022 timeframe. This is probably way European countries are aligned with not recommending boosters for those in the low risk age groups.

Which has fuck-all to do with myocarditis rates. Which was what we were talking about there.

 

[Brovane]

Which has fuck-all to do with myocarditis rates. Which was what we were talking about there.

A low risk group for COVID also has a low risk of myocarditis from COVID, in the same range as that low risk group getting myocarditis from the vaccine.

 

[Muse]

There's a huge population of people out there these days who have 0 sense of proportion.

You need an education to have that. Its value is inestimable.

 

[Muse]

One of the things I learned during the COVID days was that very few people really understand statistics. Or biology.

When Covid-19 blew up in the news I paid very close attention. The first thing that caught my eye was maybe a couple of short video clips on network news of what was going on in Wuhan, I suppose in January of 2020. The Chinese were clearly all but hysterical concerning it. They were going bananas, violently, forcibly locking people in their apartments. I knew instinctively this was going to blow up in everybody's face.

I took one stat course at the U: Stat 101 IIRC, got an A. Have never studied biology but my family is full of M.D.s including my father and brother, so I'm from that milieu. I have watched a certain video produced IIRC by 60 Minutes Australia (more than once) that highlighted the seriousness of long covid. Very very concerning. I think it was this one:

Here's another:

 

[Pens1566]

A low risk group for COVID also has a low risk of myocarditis from COVID, in the same range as that low risk group getting myocarditis from the vaccine.

And yet, those %s are still drastically higher than either the control population or vaccine recipients. Odd.

Also, you're still talking about a side effect that is almost always classified as mild. And one that you can also develop from the common cold.

Like I said eariler, a dead giveaway for someone that is just regurgitating. Please move onto something fun, like VAERS ...

 

[Brovane]

And yet, those %s are still drastically higher than either the control population or vaccine recipients. Odd.

Also, you're still talking about a side effect that is almost always classified as mild. And one that you can also develop from the common cold.

Like I said eariler, a dead giveaway for someone that is just regurgitating. Please move onto something fun, like VAERS ...

No not really, why? Well COVID has become milder as it has mutated since 2020. For those groups that are at low risk of COVID and have been vaccinated from COVID previously the risk of having severe COVID has been greatly reduced to the point that it is the same chance of having a adverse reaction to the booster.

There is a reason that so many European countries aligned on focusing COVID boosters on older populations and those with health conditions that place them at risk.

 

[Brovane]

You need an education to have that. Its value is inestimable.

I can guarantee you that Dr. Prasad a Internal Medicine doctor and Oncologist has better education than you.