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No Breaks for "Mr. Danger": Chavez wins re-election by LANDSLIDE

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Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: Craig234
What many of us are happy to see - oh, let's call us 'supporters of democracy' - is democracy work in places like Venezuela in electing people who will represent the people, rather than be puppets of foreign interests, largely meaning US corporations and the government serving them.

It's not anti-US; it's recognizing the 'absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely' principle which can lead the US to become a big bully nation simply oppressing other American nations economically, often through brutal means, and it's praising when the *corrupt* aspects are challenged by those nations.

When the US treats them well and fairly, we look for those nations to have good relations with the US, and if they don't, they can be criticized.

IMO, those who demand the other nations lie down and let their governments serve foreign corporations are like any other evil badtards in history, though admittedly they are often simply crminally ignorant about the situation and think they're supporting something else.

It reminds me a little of the apartheid divisions in the US earlier - divided between those who wanted to stand against apartheid on the left, and the right who didn't exactly like apartheid, but opposed whatever the left wanted just out of obstinence and were too lazy to get too informed or concerned, and saw no reason to change their spending habits.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

- The summary of the modern republican voter who votes in evil out of ignorance

Bravo! Good point about apartheid, that was awhile ago but it is still a good example.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Wootness!!!

Actually I'm not as big a Chavez fan as I once was, but I still like anything that stands against America.
I agree, I have always been pretty cautious but as long as he stays positive Viva Chavez! Viva Democracy, Viva the People, Viva Freedom and long live The revolution.

I am not anti-american though, more like anti bush regime establishment. But I am sure this is what you meant.
Yes, Viva punishing the Middle class, Viva punishing the rich, Viva eliminating presidential term limits, Viva eliminating ownership of businesses, Viva confiscation of land.

Chavez is the farthest from Democracy you can get unless you step into communism.


Nothing is democratic about corporate run monopolies exploiting people, sorry. Term limits are decided by constitutions and the people, everywhere is not like america *gasp*
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,061
494
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Wootness!!!

Actually I'm not as big a Chavez fan as I once was, but I still like anything that stands against America.
I agree, I have always been pretty cautious but as long as he stays positive Viva Chavez! Viva Democracy, Viva the People, Viva Freedom and long live The revolution.

I am not anti-american though, more like anti bush regime establishment. But I am sure this is what you meant.
Yes, Viva punishing the Middle class, Viva punishing the rich, Viva eliminating presidential term limits, Viva eliminating ownership of businesses, Viva confiscation of land.

Chavez is the farthest from Democracy you can get unless you step into communism.


Nothing is democratic about corporate run monopolies exploiting people, sorry.

And neither is state forcefully taking private property or business.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: Genx87

And neither is state forcefully taking private property or business.
It is not theirs to monopolize, it is the peoples, too bad for them, they can take their money elsewhere where they are allowed to continue their exploitation.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,240
3,778
126
Originally posted by: Craig234
What many of us are happy to see - oh, let's call us 'supporters of democracy' - is democracy work in places like Venezuela in electing people who will represent the people, rather than be puppets of foreign interests, largely meaning US corporations and the government serving them.

It's not anti-US; it's recognizing the 'absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely' principle which can lead the US to become a big bully nation simply oppressing other American nations economically, often through brutal means, and it's praising when the *corrupt* aspects are challenged by those nations.

When the US treats them well and fairly, we look for those nations to have good relations with the US, and if they don't, they can be criticized.

IMO, those who demand the other nations lie down and let their governments serve foreign corporations are like any other evil badtards in history, though admittedly they are often simply crminally ignorant about the situation and think they're supporting something else.

It reminds me a little of the apartheid divisions in the US earlier - divided between those who wanted to stand against apartheid on the left, and the right who didn't exactly like apartheid, but opposed whatever the left wanted just out of obstinence and were too lazy to get too informed or concerned, and saw no reason to change their spending habits.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

- The summary of the modern republican voter who votes in evil out of ignorance
Has America?s own anti-Americanism no limits? Placing the non-aligned movement ahead of us places your loyalties firmly with Iran, North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela. Telling us we?re the evil in the world cannot be expressed in words of anger that are remotely strong enough.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Craig234
What many of us are happy to see - oh, let's call us 'supporters of democracy' - is democracy work in places like Venezuela in electing people who will represent the people, rather than be puppets of foreign interests, largely meaning US corporations and the government serving them.

It's not anti-US; it's recognizing the 'absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely' principle which can lead the US to become a big bully nation simply oppressing other American nations economically, often through brutal means, and it's praising when the *corrupt* aspects are challenged by those nations.

When the US treats them well and fairly, we look for those nations to have good relations with the US, and if they don't, they can be criticized.

IMO, those who demand the other nations lie down and let their governments serve foreign corporations are like any other evil badtards in history, though admittedly they are often simply crminally ignorant about the situation and think they're supporting something else.

It reminds me a little of the apartheid divisions in the US earlier - divided between those who wanted to stand against apartheid on the left, and the right who didn't exactly like apartheid, but opposed whatever the left wanted just out of obstinence and were too lazy to get too informed or concerned, and saw no reason to change their spending habits.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

- The summary of the modern republican voter who votes in evil out of ignorance
Has America?s own anti-Americanism no limits? Placing the non-aligned movement ahead of us places your loyalties firmly with Iran, North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela. Telling us we?re the evil in the world cannot be expressed in words of anger that are remotely strong enough.
We are not "the" evil, but we are not exactly helping anyone out at this point but ourselves.

Although around the world I think america would be the one pointed out as the most dangerous at this time sadly.

And letting our country turn into a fascist right wing bully aligns ourselves AGAINST THE WHOLE FREAKING WORLD. So get over it, dissent is good.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Wootness!!!

Actually I'm not as big a Chavez fan as I once was, but I still like anything that stands against America.
I agree, I have always been pretty cautious but as long as he stays positive Viva Chavez! Viva Democracy, Viva the People, Viva Freedom and long live The revolution.

I am not anti-american though, more like anti bush regime establishment. But I am sure this is what you meant.
Yes, Viva punishing the Middle class, Viva punishing the rich, Viva eliminating presidential term limits, Viva eliminating ownership of businesses, Viva confiscation of land.

Chavez is the farthest from Democracy you can get unless you step into communism.


Nothing is democratic about corporate run monopolies exploiting people, sorry. Term limits are decided by constitutions and the people, everywhere is not like america *gasp*

Corporate monopolies are a result of a society's economic model and the regulations that surround it. The economic model is derived from laws established by the DEMICRATICALLY ELECTED officials in the various levels of authority. A PUBLIC company's monopoly is much more democratic than the direct confiscation of a business or industry and monopolizing such (Venezuala's oil) by political authorities. In the latter, you have one group of the public (the majority) confiscating another group's (generally the minority, in this case the business owners) property for the benefit of the majority. Yep, that sure sounds like democracy in action.

And without term limits, you essentially wipe out the democratic freedom of electing your officials. So the fact that it would be different than the US, as you point out, is nothing but a blind you hide behind to the fact that general population has now been effectively removed from democratically electing it's representatives.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,061
494
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

And neither is state forcefully taking private property or business.
It is not theirs to monopolize, it is the peoples, too bad for them, they can take their money elsewhere where they are allowed to continue their exploitation.
It's the peoples is tantamount to "it is the states". In other words no different than what the communists did in Eastern Europe, Soviet Union, SE Asia, and China.
So you were saying about "democracy"?
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

And neither is state forcefully taking private property or business.
It is not theirs to monopolize, it is the peoples, too bad for them, they can take their money elsewhere where they are allowed to continue their exploitation.
That is NOT democracy, that is Socialism. geesh.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,061
494
126
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

And neither is state forcefully taking private property or business.
It is not theirs to monopolize, it is the peoples, too bad for them, they can take their money elsewhere where they are allowed to continue their exploitation.
That is NOT democracy, that is Socialism. geesh.

I believe Vic has made mention about Rots inability to understand his own positions.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

And neither is state forcefully taking private property or business.
It is not theirs to monopolize, it is the peoples, too bad for them, they can take their money elsewhere where they are allowed to continue their exploitation.
It's the peoples is tantamount to "it is the states". In other words no different than what the communists did in Eastern Europe, Soviet Union, SE Asia, and China.
So you were saying about "democracy"?


A few State run industries are not communist, try reading a book sometime. Communism is when everything is state run.

Chavez is Socialist not communist you tool. :roll:

Thats like saying we are communist because our interstates are state owned.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,061
494
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

And neither is state forcefully taking private property or business.
It is not theirs to monopolize, it is the peoples, too bad for them, they can take their money elsewhere where they are allowed to continue their exploitation.
It's the peoples is tantamount to "it is the states". In other words no different than what the communists did in Eastern Europe, Soviet Union, SE Asia, and China.
So you were saying about "democracy"?


A few State run industries are not communist, try reading a book sometime. Communism is when everything is state run. Socialist not communist you tool. :roll:
Uh that isnt the argument here, the argument is you defending the states right to forcefully take private property or business. You claim it is under the guise of "Its the peoples", when I am saying we have heard that story before in the locations mentioned that were clearly not democratic in any form or function.

Do you usually carry on conversations like this in person? Your complete lack of understanding of what you are speaking about is amazing.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

And neither is state forcefully taking private property or business.
It is not theirs to monopolize, it is the peoples, too bad for them, they can take their money elsewhere where they are allowed to continue their exploitation.
That is NOT democracy, that is Socialism. geesh.


Democratic Socialism, try looking it up sometime or looking around the world at other governments besides ours, it is pretty common.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

And neither is state forcefully taking private property or business.
It is not theirs to monopolize, it is the peoples, too bad for them, they can take their money elsewhere where they are allowed to continue their exploitation.
It's the peoples is tantamount to "it is the states". In other words no different than what the communists did in Eastern Europe, Soviet Union, SE Asia, and China.
So you were saying about "democracy"?


A few State run industries are not communist, try reading a book sometime. Communism is when everything is state run. Socialist not communist you tool. :roll:
Uh that isnt the argument here, the argument is you defending the states right to forcefully take private property or business. You claim it is under the guise of "Its the peoples", when I am saying we have heard that story before in the locations mentioned before that were clearly not democratic in any form or function.

Do you usually carry on conversations like this in person? Your complete lack of understanding of what you are speaking about is amazing.


Nationalizing a industry is not communist, it has been done long before marx even wrote any books.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

And neither is state forcefully taking private property or business.
It is not theirs to monopolize, it is the peoples, too bad for them, they can take their money elsewhere where they are allowed to continue their exploitation.
That is NOT democracy, that is Socialism. geesh.


Democratic Socialism, try looking it up sometime or looking around the world at other governments besides ours, it is pretty common.
sigh......
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: CPA

sigh......
I agree, you right wingnuts on your anti-socialism trip are pretty frustrating in your ignorance.

ooga booga! some other country is trying something different, wow, our model of government may not work out for totally different places/ economies. Imagine that!

Of course most of those other countries are not wealthy in oil, so therin lies the big problem with Chavez.

The only reason we have such a strong middle class anyway is labor movement and socialist works anyway. So lose the naievity, Venz is choosing their own future without being under the thumb of us imperialism, just like we cast off the brits, (Bolvarianism) good for them.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,061
494
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

And neither is state forcefully taking private property or business.
It is not theirs to monopolize, it is the peoples, too bad for them, they can take their money elsewhere where they are allowed to continue their exploitation.
It's the peoples is tantamount to "it is the states". In other words no different than what the communists did in Eastern Europe, Soviet Union, SE Asia, and China.
So you were saying about "democracy"?


A few State run industries are not communist, try reading a book sometime. Communism is when everything is state run. Socialist not communist you tool. :roll:
Uh that isnt the argument here, the argument is you defending the states right to forcefully take private property or business. You claim it is under the guise of "Its the peoples", when I am saying we have heard that story before in the locations mentioned before that were clearly not democratic in any form or function.

Do you usually carry on conversations like this in person? Your complete lack of understanding of what you are speaking about is amazing.


Nationalizing a industry is not communist, it has been done long before marx even wrote any books.
Like a record, you are a perfect example of the failures of our public school system.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: senseamp
Wow, that video really shows where Fox News got its inspiration from.
The minority owned pro-us corporate media there is shameless in inciting coups and spreading outright lies about Chavez endlessly.
Eager to spread the good word on Iran, North Korea and Cuba's newest member in their alliance against us eh? They do so love your home grown dissident support to keep us pacified as they all develop nuclear weapons in preparation for the coming war.

Make no mistake about it, by 2020 every member of their alliance will be a nuclear power if it does not happen much sooner through their trade relations.

Lift Chavez up on the liberal pedestal all you want, the moment he publicly announces his nuclear technology Venezuela should be destroyed.
lol

your paranoia prescription run out?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,474
9,423
126
Yay for oppression!!

:roll:


Chavez is anti-liberal, dumbasses. I could pull out quote after quote from him decrying liberalism.

 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,474
9,423
126
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: ayabe
The whole country is like a Pinko Bedwetter theme park, you'd love it.
Thank you sen. mccarthy :roll:
The problem I have with your point of view is that you want to rail against American foreign policy, and American imperialism etc, but you have no problem at all with indulging in the benefits of these "unholy" practices. So put up or shut up, go live in Venezuela, that at least wouldn't make you a hypocrite.
I am a American, a voter, and concerned, I can do as I wish, thanks and go cheney yourself.
Well thanks for admitting that you are a weekend warrior at best. Hope you like your Ipod made by slave labor in China.
:laugh::thumbsup:

 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Wootness!!!

Actually I'm not as big a Chavez fan as I once was, but I still like anything that stands against America.
I agree, I have always been pretty cautious but as long as he stays positive Viva Chavez! Viva Democracy, Viva the People, Viva Freedom and long live The revolution.

I am not anti-american though, more like anti bush regime establishment. But I am sure this is what you meant.
Well, definitely anti-bush...but moreover anti-american corporatism/capitalism, anti-american foreign policy, anti-american imperialism, etc. The US has a really crappy oversees record, especially in latin america. We're not just talking bush, we're talking back to founding days. It's good to see them rising up and growing a pair.
I would encourage you to move to Venezuela then that way you can really rage against the machine.

The whole country is like a Pinko Bedwetter theme park, you'd love it.
No thanks, I'm too in love with the idea and foundation of my country. It's just the greedy egocentric bastards that keep screwing it up that I hate. As soon as the rest of the world tells America what it can go do with itself I'm hopeful that the aristocracy will crumble and we'll actually become what we were intended to be.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

And neither is state forcefully taking private property or business.
It is not theirs to monopolize, it is the peoples, too bad for them, they can take their money elsewhere where they are allowed to continue their exploitation.
It's the peoples is tantamount to "it is the states". In other words no different than what the communists did in Eastern Europe, Soviet Union, SE Asia, and China.
So you were saying about "democracy"?


A few State run industries are not communist, try reading a book sometime. Communism is when everything is state run. Socialist not communist you tool. :roll:
Uh that isnt the argument here, the argument is you defending the states right to forcefully take private property or business. You claim it is under the guise of "Its the peoples", when I am saying we have heard that story before in the locations mentioned before that were clearly not democratic in any form or function.

Do you usually carry on conversations like this in person? Your complete lack of understanding of what you are speaking about is amazing.


Nationalizing a industry is not communist, it has been done long before marx even wrote any books.
Like a record, you are a perfect example of the failures of our public school system.
the interesting thing is the steeple is correct. nationalizing an industry is not an action that is only compatible with communism, but in fact a variety of ideologies and not only of the liberal bent. Further, it is not incompatible with democracy, in fact it is the obvious result of democracy, and why republicanism instead is the dominate system.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

And neither is state forcefully taking private property or business.
It is not theirs to monopolize, it is the peoples, too bad for them, they can take their money elsewhere where they are allowed to continue their exploitation.
That is NOT democracy, that is Socialism. geesh.
ffs democracy is a political system, socialism is an economic system. The two are not incompatible or mutually exclusive.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,474
9,423
126
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Wootness!!!

Actually I'm not as big a Chavez fan as I once was, but I still like anything that stands against America.
I agree, I have always been pretty cautious but as long as he stays positive Viva Chavez! Viva Democracy, Viva the People, Viva Freedom and long live The revolution.

I am not anti-american though, more like anti bush regime establishment. But I am sure this is what you meant.
Well, definitely anti-bush...but moreover anti-american corporatism/capitalism, anti-american foreign policy, anti-american imperialism, etc. The US has a really crappy oversees record, especially in latin america. We're not just talking bush, we're talking back to founding days. It's good to see them rising up and growing a pair.
I would encourage you to move to Venezuela then that way you can really rage against the machine.

The whole country is like a Pinko Bedwetter theme park, you'd love it.
No thanks, I'm too in love with the idea and foundation of my country. It's just the greedy egocentric bastards that keep screwing it up that I hate. As soon as the rest of the world tells America what it can go do with itself I'm hopeful that the aristocracy will crumble and we'll actually become what we were intended to be.
If you love Chavez, then you and the ideas that founded this country have pretty much zero in common, no matter how much you might hate America's current policies.
Personally, I wish WE would tell the rest of the world to fsck off, and then we can watch it crumble.
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Wootness!!!

Actually I'm not as big a Chavez fan as I once was, but I still like anything that stands against America.
I agree, I have always been pretty cautious but as long as he stays positive Viva Chavez! Viva Democracy, Viva the People, Viva Freedom and long live The revolution.

I am not anti-american though, more like anti bush regime establishment. But I am sure this is what you meant.
Yes, Viva punishing the Middle class, Viva punishing the rich, Viva eliminating presidential term limits, Viva eliminating ownership of businesses, Viva confiscation of land.

Chavez is the farthest from Democracy you can get unless you step into communism.
Yes, it was FAR better before where .5% of the population owned 90% of the wealth and land and kept everyone as effectively impotent slave labor...where the nations natural resources were sold to already exploitively rich corporations with all proceeds going to the fat cats...where an entire nation (and really a continent) was made slave to to the world bank and IMF so that western interests could find ways around humanitarian worker/human rights restrictions within the us.

As I said, I don't like everything he's done, but at least he's doing it for his country and not our corporations. That right there gets him my vote.
 

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