No 700 series till 2013 Q4 ? ;/

[Ice_Dragon]

So most likely Apple will go with the "Solar System" series for their next mobile line? Are there any rebadges there?

 

[chibimike]

This is only true of lower end notebooks. MSI/Alienware/Clevo employ MXM 3.0b standards with interchangeable graphics cards. For example, my M18x originally shipped with 6970M Crossfire which I upgraded to 580M SLI and now again to 680M SLI. On the CPU front, it shipped with a 2720qm processor and I since upgraded to a fully unlocked 2920XM.

Sure, but the number of people who do this with laptops in a tiny fraction vs desktops.

 

[AdamK47]

sadly GTX 690 has only 2GB vram



seems like i have to buy GTX 670 .... 700 series are too far .... and then just jump to 800 series ....

I wouldn't mind waiting for dual GK114 cards. I'm really liking the low heat, power, and noise from my two GTX 690s.

 

[5150Joker]

Sure, but the number of people who do this with laptops in a tiny fraction vs desktops.

The market is getting bigger and bigger each year. Compared to 3 years ago, MXM 3.0b compatible notebooks are all over the place and readily available. And there are lots and lots of people taking advantage of it by upgrading their GPU. It will never be as robust as a desktop but it doesn't need to be.

 

[RussianSensation]

I'm surprised there are still people that think desktops will continue to receive all the attention they did in previous years. Desktops are a dying breed and have been the least 3-4 years (or longer). Even I moved on long ago (I used to be very active here) and now own an Alienware M18x with 680M SLI. The M18x is as fast as a lot of enthusiast desktops but its also mobile. A lot of other people have switched over as well.

The cheapest M18X with GTX680M SLI is $2,944 right now. The GTX680M SLI setup is a $1K option. A single GTX680M's performance only falls at GTX570 level. You expect PC enthusiasts to abandon gaming desktops and spend nearly $3K on a system with an 18-inch screen with a total GPU performance of GTX570/660 SLI?

For $3K, you could probably build a desktop PC faster than that laptop with a 27 inch Catleap, and have enough money left over to get a PS4+Xbox 720+3DS/PS Vita.

I am surprised PC gamers are abandoning desktops for these $2.5-3K gaming laptops, only to end up with a slower PC, an inferior quality smaller-sized screen/keyboard and a laptop that fails miserably for portability imo. I can't imagine how you are lugging a 9-10 lbs laptop to school or at work. Also, how are you playing games on a battery with GTX680M SLI since it will probably not last more than 1.5 hours? That likely means most people going your route would end up spending nearly $3K and then the 9-10 lbs gaming laptop just sits there as a desktop replacement on a desk. For this reason, many desktop PC gamers consider PC gaming laptops one of the biggest wastes of $. IMO PC gaming laptops have only gotten worse due to the power consumption limitations that result in gimped GPU performance in a small chassis and exorbitant CPU/GPU prices for any reasonable level of performance.

Alternatively, a person can just easily build a high-end desktop gaming PC for $1700 and get an ultra light portable laptop for everything else like Samsung Series 9 or a MacBook Air. You end up with 2 devices that are superior for both of their intended functions. I suppose a case can be made if you are a consultant and desire to play PC games in a hotel when you are away from home 4-5 days each week. In that case a gaming laptop definitely can make sense.

 

[Mars999]

I am never abandoning my desktop, as long as I can build one!!!! Death to the laptops!!

 

[5150Joker]

The cheapest M18X with GTX680M SLI is $2,944 right now. The GTX680M SLI setup is a $1K option. A single GTX680M's performance only falls at GTX570 level. You expect PC enthusiasts to abandon gaming desktops and spend nearly $3K on a system with an 18-inch screen with a total GPU performance of GTX570/660 SLI?

For $3K, you could probably build a desktop PC faster than that laptop with a 27 inch Catleap, and have enough money left over to get a PS4+Xbox 720+3DS/PS Vita.

I am surprised PC gamers are abandoning desktops for these $2.5-3K gaming laptops, only to end up with a slower PC, an inferior quality smaller-sized screen/keyboard and a laptop that fails miserably for portability imo. I can't imagine how you are lugging a 9-10 lbs laptop to school or at work. Also, how are you playing games on a battery with GTX680M SLI since it will probably not last more than 1.5 hours? That likely means most people going your route would end up spending nearly $3K and then the 9-10 lbs gaming laptop just sits there as a desktop replacement on a desk. For this reason, many desktop PC gamers consider PC gaming laptops one of the biggest wastes of $. IMO PC gaming laptops have only gotten worse due to the power consumption limitations that result in gimped GPU performance in a small chassis and exorbitant CPU/GPU prices for any reasonable level of performance.

Alternatively, a person can just easily build a high-end desktop gaming PC for $1700 and get an ultra light portable laptop for everything else like Samsung Series 9 or a MacBook Air. You end up with 2 devices that are superior for both of their intended functions. I suppose a case can be made if you are a consultant and desire to play PC games in a hotel when you are away from home 4-5 days each week. In that case a gaming laptop definitely can make sense.

If you want an example of how they scale performance wise, take a look at some of the results here, they are beating most high end desktops: http://forum.techinferno.com/alienware-m18x/1039-official-m18x-benchmarking-thread-6.html The performance options are unlocked and enhanced vbios freely available to anyone. The best part is that these systems can run at overclocked speeds without breaking 75-80C 24/7.

As for battery life, the system has built in switchable graphics and lasts about 5-6 hours. No laptop games on battery, that's a given and a retarded thing to knock it about. When you sit down to game, you plug it in and get max performance. When you want to do other work, switch to Intel IGP and do everything else without being plugged in.

Price wise, a simple call to Dell will yield up to 20% off the price--people that don't know any better buy directly online. The same is true of desktops, people constantly bargain hunt for the cheapest price on the individual components so why wouldn't you do the same with a laptop?

Finally, yes, I carry it around with no problem in my backpack along with books and other charts when I'm rounding at the hospital. Guess what? Doesn't cause me any strain whatsoever and I get to fire up a game of BF3 or Crysis 3 when I'm on break.

The goal of these notebooks isn't to surpass the best desktop (only a fool would think they could), it is to match high end desktops which they do exceedingly well.

 

[3lackDeath]

I am never abandoning my desktop, as long as I can build one!!!! Death to the laptops!!

+1 lol

 

[RussianSensation]

If you want an example of how they scale performance wise, take a look at some of the results here, they are beating most high end desktops: http://forum.techinferno.com/alienware-m18x/1039-official-m18x-benchmarking-thread-6.html

What "most high-end desktops"? The ones you can buy at Dell or HP? We are talking about enthusiast PC desktops on our forum. The performance of a GTX680M is at best at HD7870/GTX660 level. That means 2x HD7950s @ 1100mhz would mop the floor with GTX680M SLI for just $560. Let's talk about how much your actual laptop cost you and the subsequent CPU upgrade compared to a Core i5 2500K/3570K @ 4.5-4.7ghz that will outperform your laptop forever because you can't just swap out your next CPU for Haswell without selling your laptop. Someone else will just sell the desktop mobo+CPU and upgrade to Haswell/Broadwell/Skylake on the cheap over the next 2-3 years. You will have to sell your entire laptop most likely and incur a much larger depreciation cost on the components in the process.

As for battery life, the system has built in switchable graphics and lasts about 5-6 hours. No laptop games on battery, that's a given and a retarded thing to knock it about.

That's the point. Most people will be gaming plugged into a wall outlet, and chances are many of them will be doing this at home at their desk, defeating the entire purpose of a high-end gaming laptop. There is nothing unusual about people using their HTPCs or desktops for gaming after work. The opposite is true for high-end gaming on a laptop - there are very limited scenarios/usage cases where such a device makes sense. Where most of the growth is coming in gaming laptops is low-end and mid-range not the in $2.5-3K segments. $700-1,500 laptops are getting fast enough to play basic 3D games, indie titles, SC2, Diablo 3, Minecraft, etc. This is where the growth is.

When you want to do other work, switch to Intel IGP and do everything else without being plugged in. Finally, yes, I carry it around with no problem in my backpack along with books and other charts when I'm rounding at the hospital. Guess what? Doesn't cause me any strain whatsoever and I get to fire up a game of BF3 or Crysis 3 when I'm on break.

Ya, you describe a very limited scenario, people that work in circumstances that allow you to game at your workplace. I mean sure if you work midnights at a hospital, security or a consultant that stays in hotels, a gaming laptop would work. The majority of people do not have these job occupations and those that actually need a laptop for work already get one from their firm. So it would be redundant to carry with you a work and a 9-10 lbs gaming laptop for most people who do "real work" on their laptops.

Students that need laptops for school work are spending a lot of $ on education, whether undergrad or master's, which means if they are getting a worthwhile degree, they probably have little time to do serious gaming in college/university on campus. Also, when you are young and experience college life, unless you lack social skills, you'll be too busy chasing girls/boys, being involved in clubs/extracurriculars/sports and drinking between study sessions. When I went to university, not a single person out of my graduating class had a $2.5-3k gaming laptop. So really the case for a $2.5-3K high-end PC gaming laptop is extremely limited.

The goal of these notebooks isn't to surpass the best desktop, it is to match high end desktops which they do exceedingly well.

Last week MC had an Asrock Extreme 6 + i5 3570K for $250ish. Add $80 for 16GB of RAM, $100 for a 128GB SSD, $140 for a 3TB HDD, $300 for a 27 inch Catleap and $560 for 2x HD7950s OCed / GTX660Ti OC, $40 for Thermalright True Spirit 140 cooler, $100 for Corsair 500R case, $100 for a good PSU and $100 for OS = $1,770. That system would own your laptop in performance and IQ, while costing $1,300 less and having a cheap/flexible future upgrade path.

The reason a $3K laptop seems like great value to you is because of your specific needs. As I said, if for your specific uses a high-end gaming laptop makes way more sense, then by all means. For most of us here, spending $1,300 more for a gaming laptop that has so many negatives doesn't make any sense. You make it sound as if PC desktops don't make any sense assuming all of us can freely engage in gaming sessions at our workplace. A gaming laptop cannot keep up with a high-end desktop in any shape or form no matter how much $ you spend. And really even a single $380 HD7970 OC to 1200mhz will provide a very similar level of gaming performance to GTX680M in SLI because it's 61% faster than a GTX660 at 1920x1200 and GTX680M SLI is going to be roughly similar to GTX660 SLI. You are paying $1K for maybe 10% more performance over HD7970 OC, but have to deal with possible SLI scaling issues and more micro-stutter. How is a high-end mobile gaming replacing high-end PC desktops for most people then? I am pretty sure most people don't even want to spend $1000-1,500 on a gaming desktop PC, and how many of those would want to spend $2.5-3K on a PC gaming laptop? The reason there is a decline in desktop PCs is people's transition to cheap tablets, smartphones and portable laptops for their basic needs, not because they found out that high-end $2.5-3K laptop PC gaming is superior to a $1.7K desktop PC gaming.

 

[5150Joker]

Wow you sure wasted a lot of time typing up imaginary scenarios (college kids partying) that has absolutely nothing to do with a high performance notebook, nice one!

If you want to see real world performance of these systems, rather than typing up a novel about hypothetical performance, go to that link I posted earlier and take a look. I don't even know why you would bring up desktop component cost vs a notebook since I never claimed notebooks are cheaper, just that their performance gap is closing with gaming desktops.

Finally, its your subjective opinion of how a gaming notebook is used, you aren't an authority on the matter nor do you have any data to back up your claim. This is the same old story used by desktop owners to justify their purchase.

 

[Eureka]

I'd have to agree with 5150Joker.. Laptop gaming market is growing. We're at the point where laptop components are powerful enough for common gaming. It won't be as cheap or as popular as desktop gaming but desktop enthusiasts are a small enough group as it is. If you buy a used Alienware or clevo chassis you can crossfire a complete system for under 1500. Parts will only get cheaper with time. Some of these chassis are running full desktop CPUs with desktop competitive mxm modules.


The problem is that even if this segment grows 10%, most of that will come from desktop enthusiasts due to the nature of the technology.

 

[rgallant]

This is the same old story used by laptop owners to justify their purchase.

-fixed

 

[sxr7171]

The cheapest M18X with GTX680M SLI is $2,944 right now. The GTX680M SLI setup is a $1K option. A single GTX680M's performance only falls at GTX570 level. You expect PC enthusiasts to abandon gaming desktops and spend nearly $3K on a system with an 18-inch screen with a total GPU performance of GTX570/660 SLI?

For $3K, you could probably build a desktop PC faster than that laptop with a 27 inch Catleap, and have enough money left over to get a PS4+Xbox 720+3DS/PS Vita.

I am surprised PC gamers are abandoning desktops for these $2.5-3K gaming laptops, only to end up with a slower PC, an inferior quality smaller-sized screen/keyboard and a laptop that fails miserably for portability imo. I can't imagine how you are lugging a 9-10 lbs laptop to school or at work. Also, how are you playing games on a battery with GTX680M SLI since it will probably not last more than 1.5 hours? That likely means most people going your route would end up spending nearly $3K and then the 9-10 lbs gaming laptop just sits there as a desktop replacement on a desk. For this reason, many desktop PC gamers consider PC gaming laptops one of the biggest wastes of $. IMO PC gaming laptops have only gotten worse due to the power consumption limitations that result in gimped GPU performance in a small chassis and exorbitant CPU/GPU prices for any reasonable level of performance.

Alternatively, a person can just easily build a high-end desktop gaming PC for $1700 and get an ultra light portable laptop for everything else like Samsung Series 9 or a MacBook Air. You end up with 2 devices that are superior for both of their intended functions. I suppose a case can be made if you are a consultant and desire to play PC games in a hotel when you are away from home 4-5 days each week. In that case a gaming laptop definitely can make sense.

Seriously. "Gaming laptop" is an oxymoron. A 10lb laptop is basically a crippled desktop. MacBook Air + real desktop is the way to go. Each optimized correctly for its purpose.

 

[jacktesterson]

Seriously. "Gaming laptop" is an oxymoron. A 10lb laptop is basically a crippled desktop. MacBook Air + real desktop is the way to go. Each optimized correctly for its purpose.

Yeah, spending $1300 on a Mac Air is logic at its best. :hmm:

 

[AdamK47]

Seriously. "Gaming laptop" is an oxymoron. A 10lb laptop is basically a crippled desktop. MacBook Air + real desktop is the way to go. Each optimized correctly for its purpose.

With the MacBook Air being optimized by Apple for increased profit margin.

 

[RussianSensation]

Yeah, spending $1300 on a Mac Air is logic at its best. :hmm:

I just used that as an example to prove a point that you can build a very high-end desktop PC for ~$1,700 and still have room to fit an expensive portable laptop like MBA, or Samsung Series 7/9, Asus X31, etc. are all solid options for a portable laptop. I don't think there is some exponential growth in $2.5K+ desktop replacement gaming laptops like 5150Joker is making it sound as if high-end desktop gaming rigs are dying. That's completely opposite from what's happening to sales of cards like GTX670-680 and HD7970. If you read the comments by AMD and NV, the sales of GPUs > $300 level are actually OK. If you look at breakdown of performance PCs vs. performance laptops, both are less than 10% of total sales.

Sure there are more people buying performance laptops but that statistic is misleading because the "Performance" or Premium category for both laptops and desktops starts above $1,000. You can easily buy a decent desktop PC for less than $1 grand that you'd have to spent $1,800+ to match in a laptop.

I'd have to agree with 5150Joker.. Laptop gaming market is growing.

I never said the laptop gaming market is not growing. Of course the growth in laptops is outpacing desktops. But the idea that $2.5-3K gaming laptops are "replacing" $1k-1.7K gaming desktop PCs is ludicrous. Who cross-shops a $1-1.7K computer with a $2.5-3K one? His point implies people are willing to spend thousands of dollars more just to abandon desktop gaming PCs. That's not what's happening in the industry. People are foregoing $700-800 desktops for tablets/smartphones or replacing their outdated computers with $900-1,300 laptops. It's not the same as saying "Gee, instead of buying a desktop for $1.5K for gaming, I'd rather spend double!!".

In fact, claiming that desktop gaming GPUs are dying is completely incorrect since that contradicts real world market data from shipments of GPUs by AIBs last quarter.

1) Total AIB shipments increased this quarter from the previous quarter by 18.8% to 17.5 million units.
2) Year-to-year this quarter AIB shipments were up 1.7% from 17.2 million to 17.5 million units.
3) Normally, this quarter of the year is up, and this year the quarter was no different, with an increase greater than the 10-year average (10.6%).
4) In Q2’12 AMD shipped 5.95 million units, and in Q3’12 shipped 6.26, so they increased in shipments but Nvidia shipped more and therefore grew market share ending up with 11.23 million, up 28% from 8.75 million last quarter
http://jonpeddie.com/press-releases...rd-shipments-seasonally-up-from-last-quarter/

I love when laptop PC gamers come in and troll desktop gaming forums by skewing/disregarding facts to prop up their viewpoint. They love to look at overall desktop PC sales and misleadingly correlate that with the implication that gaming PCs are dying or the growth of gaming high-end GPUs is negative.

I don't even know why you would bring up desktop component cost vs a notebook since I never claimed notebooks are cheaper, just that their performance gap is closing with gaming desktops.

Because you claimed that high-end gaming laptops are replacing high-end gaming PCs and there is no reason at all to buy a high-end gaming desktop anymore. Once I brought up the cost and performance argument, you got your panties in a bunch because a gaming laptop is inferior in both performance and price/performance. That means there are legitimate reasons why the statement you made was not accurate. Also, as I said, you keep ignoring real world performance. I just told you that a single GTX680M is only about as fast as an HD7870.

You keep saying how high-end gaming laptops are closing the gap with desktops. No, they are not. The gap is growing because high-end GPUs are becoming even more power hungry and more expensive. Desktop GTX660Ti SLI is faster than GTX680M SLI and that setup is not much faster than a stock HD7970GE. So how in the world are GTX680M SLI for $1,000 closing the gap on desktop GPUs? If you want to compare apples-to-apples, let's put up $900-1000 GTX670 Tri-SLI or HD7950 @ 1100mhz+ Tri-Fire against your $1K 680M SLI and see what happens.

A $3k gaming laptop is slower than a $1.7K desktop PC. Unless money is not a factor for you, that's not closing the gap. While at it, please let us know how a laptop with anything slower than an HD7970M or GTX675MX/680M will fair for gaming despite costing nearly $1800. Most gaming laptops will get outperformed by a $150 HD7850 2GB + $180 i5.

 

[Granseth]

It's all about personal preferences.
But I agree, buy an OK desktop to play your games on, and have a cheap (or get a MB Air if you have to have some bling) light laptop if you need one and a tablet can't do the job.

If you like to travel to LAN or have other reasons to have a easily portable gaming station you get a portable gaming notebook.

 

[sxr7171]

With the MacBook Air being optimized by Apple for increased profit margin.

I'm not new to ultraportables by any means. I've been a regular purchaser of Thinkpad X series laptops. They were the smallest and lightest laptops on the market with one or two specialist Japanese models as exceptions.

X31, X40, X60, x200.

They were not inexpensive. Neither were any sub 2.5-3lb machines. In fact they were the most expensive in the line up barring some configurations of the T series which could hold more accessories and options. So $2000+ was a given.

This was true of all ultraportables. Until the MacBook Air. The thing weighs 2.3 lbs and priced at half of what such a machine used to be.

If you don't like the MacBook air then look into the Samsung which I think costs more or the crappy Thinkpad edge types. If you like quality look into the Vaio Z.

Basically IMHO a laptop should be light and portable and a desktop screaming fast.

 

[Rakehellion]

Speaking as a Mac fan, this will delay the next generation of iMacs and 15" retina MacBook Pros. The Mac mini (assuming it keeps all integrated graphics) will most likely be quietly updated.

Doubt it. The 680MX is still pretty new.

 

[sxr7171]

Yeah, spending $1300 on a Mac Air is logic at its best. :hmm:

That nice enterprise grade Dell you carry had to have cost more than $1300.

 

[SirPauly]

It's all about personal preferences.

Indeed!

 

[Crap Daddy]

Been away for a almost a week and had to do with various laptops for office stuff and so and when I came back my modest 22" PC monitor looked like a cinema screen in size and feel! While I understand what laptops are for, gaming is not a strong point whatever hardware they have.

 

[Ice_Dragon]

Doubt it. The 680MX is still pretty new.

So right on schedule? All right.

Honestly while it has improved over the years, I am not a fan of the MacBook Air though I do think it is nice.

I am all about the mini but they obviously couldn't have had a quad-core processor the 640M that is in the iMac with one fan.

 

[3DVagabond]

I'd have to agree with 5150Joker.. Laptop gaming market is growing. We're at the point where laptop components are powerful enough for common gaming. It won't be as cheap or as popular as desktop gaming but desktop enthusiasts are a small enough group as it is. If you buy a used Alienware or clevo chassis you can crossfire a complete system for under 1500. Parts will only get cheaper with time. Some of these chassis are running full desktop CPUs with desktop competitive mxm modules.


The problem is that even if this segment grows 10%, most of that will come from desktop enthusiasts due to the nature of the technology.

I must have missed components getting cheaper, lately. Last 3 generations of graphics the prices have risen. CPU's have remained about the same. HDD's are dearer than a couple of years ago. DDR3 is cheaper. SSD's are cheaper. Mobo's? I don't think they've come down. Performance has gone up.

Because of power limitations desktops will, for the foreseeable future, will outperform laptops.

 

[Ice_Dragon]

I must have missed components getting cheaper, lately. Last 3 generations of graphics the prices have risen. CPU's have remained about the same. HDD's are dearer than a couple of years ago. GDDR3 is cheaper. SSD's are cheaper. Mobo's? I don't think they've come down. Performance has gone up.

Because of power limitations desktops will, for the foreseeable future, will outperform laptops.

You mean GDDR5?