NJ Republican Gov must pay 271 Mil for canceling tunnel project

[bfdd]

You mean someone informed and in possession of the facts? I know that has to be boring but do try and keep up.

Remember you said this when he dumps 200M into Xanadu. If ever there was a white elephant....

Dismissing the financing of major vital infrastructure projects as a financial game that is a net loss for the state involved is a major leap of ignorance. Anything meaningful must be financed or it will never be done.

Also, where do you think that money is going to go? NY is going to be laughing all the way to the bank when it gets the 3B federal contribution intended for ARC applied to the East Side Access and the 2nd Ave subway.

while I agree building up infrastructure is a good thing, even if it means going into debt(sometimes), that doesn't mean Christie didn't make the right move. To have NJ shoulder 100% of the cost-overruns when we all know it's going to overrun(even if just a little) is silly.

 

[K1052]

while I agree building up infrastructure is a good thing, even if it means going into debt(sometimes), that doesn't mean Christie didn't make the right move. To have NJ shoulder 100% of the cost-overruns when we all know it's going to overrun(even if just a little) is silly.

That's the deal with every state that gets a federal grant for a project. Why should NJ get preferential treatment especially since they get all the benefit?

 

[chucky2]

Unions: Obumm, er, Obama, What The F*ck is going on?!?!?!!? You better have the smack laid down on this guy, and fast!!! We can't have other states pulling this sh1t!!! 2012 is going to be coming up 'buddy', and our votes aren't cheap!

Obama: Guys, guys, don't worry, I'll send a message, don't worry.

Obama: Get me the FTA, my Union Overlords, er, I mean I need to send a message...

So predictable...

 

[K1052]

Unions: Obumm, er, Obama, What The F*ck is going on?!?!?!!? You better have the smack laid down on this guy, and fast!!! We can't have other states pulling this sh1t!!! 2012 is going to be coming up 'buddy', and our votes aren't cheap!

Obama: Guys, guys, don't worry, I'll send a message, don't worry.

Obama: Get me the FTA, my Union Overlords, er, I mean I need to send a message...

So predictable...

Christie scuttled (for short term political gain) an infrastructure project that received the single largest federal grant in history for such work. The FTA and US DOT supported the project for years including through the entire tenure of the Bush administration.

Whatever your political inclinations this was a bad decision and Christie is a dumb fat mess that has butterfingers with whatever he touches.

 

[chucky2]

If it was/is so ironclad awesome, then the FTA should have had no problems with picking up any and all overruns.

They didn't.

No money.

Definite overruns.

=

Cancellation.

=

Correct fiscal action.

Let people travel elsewhere.

 

[her209]

Why should the federal government be forced to pay for the cost overruns? Do defense contractors have to come up with the difference when they overrun their cost projections?

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

people moving to Long Island and making houses in NJ worth less?

A++ idea, would vote for Christie again :thumbsup:

it depends. a house anywhere in bergen county will always be worth money because of proximity, and because they are wealthy towns to begin with.

 

[theeedude]

I bet "small govt" Boehner is going to try to cover Christie's political @ss with federal taxpayer's money and try to forgive or offset this $270M debt.

 

[Zebo]

Fine is Probably cheaper than building it. After all how many state construction projects go 2-3x over budget after all wheels are greased.

All is right answer.

 

[Craig234]

Politicians are only here to get reelected. Nothing new here. Everyone knows this.

You are very wrong. Your misguided rage blinds you to politicians' real agendas - whether they be to serve one interest or another, good or bad.

And I hate to tell you, many politicians don't mind not getting re-elected all that much when they have post-office rewards waiting, lobbying or 'consulting'.

Ask the guy who pushed the big pharma Medicare Part D bill through, who then resigned to a $2 million a year big pharma position - or hundreds of former politician lobbyists.

 

[Craig234]

When someone starts talking like this to me my eyes glaze over, because at the end I already know what's coming. It's a sales pitch.

When someone says "I don't have the money", the financial folks jump right in with their input on how this debt is good debt, it will pay itself off. Here's all the upsides to the debt, it's really a good thing and not large in the grand scheme of things. It will do all these wonderful things for us. Not only will it vacuum the floor, it will make your life better while doing it for just 4 low payments of $19.95. (With the disclaimer that one missed payment quadruples the cost).

Once they're done with their pitch, I very gently kick their asses out the door.

Our country is bankrupt. Our cities are bankrupt. Our currency is falling in value very quickly. If a house was run this way they would have declared insolvency a long time ago. Instead our country has a whole fleet of financial gurus who know how to hide the zeros and carry the ones and have convinced folks they can have their cake and eat it to. And then get paid for that cake.

No money means no money. What don't you folks get about that? Do you really think you're going to convince me that spending money we don't have (trillions and trillions and counting) is good for us or future generations?

Most New Jersians like Christie. I sure as hell like a guy who starts cancelling shit that he knows they can't pay for. He deserves applause.

There is 'good debt'. If you don't think so, you will drive your society into the ground until it's a debt-free wasteland.

Or maybe we should not have borrowed when WWII started, and just stayed out of the war until Hitler and Japan defeated our small paid-for forces.

I don't know the tradeoffs on this project, but I suspect the transportation and Senators who favored it might have a point.

 

[Zebo]

I have not heard anything good with regard to rail. Americans like their cars. Americans are not Japanese won't ride trains too much delay. Trains opens up terror attacks.

I have not heard anything good about hedge fund managers, who finance these deals, paying 15% while middle class taxes rising to pay for these.

Good, would be building 50-100 nukes plants, standardize a car/lt truck battery, a quick swap battery you lease from .gov per charge at battery swap stations, Batteries, stations, and cars built by currently unemployed Americans. Batteries and cars which would get us out of ME death dance once and for all. Batteries, stations and cars which would explode scientific research into unknown and rid of us air pollution.

Course those with gold make the rules so that won't happen too much being made in arms/oil contracts and low tax rate. Liberals hate nuke power like devil hates holy water so it won't happen.

You could have zero unemployment in 6 months, including all the illegals and be begging for more, with a paradigm shift in our transportation policy and of course tax the robber barons to pay for it.

 

[Skitzer]

I bet "small govt" Boehner is going to try to cover Christie's political @ss with federal taxpayer's money and try to forgive or offset this $270M debt.

This would be a bad thing?

 

[dmcowen674]

No money means no money. What don't you folks get about that? Do you really think you're going to convince me that spending money we don't have (trillions and trillions and counting) is good for us or future generations?

Most New Jersians like Christie. I sure as hell like a guy who starts cancelling shit that he knows they can't pay for. He deserves applause.

110% BULLSHIT

Have you ever driven from New Jersey to New York?

Do you know how much in revenue they are taking in from the tolls?

They can pay for a dozen tunnels with the money they are raking in.

Hell the toll takers are making $100K a year to take the $20 bills out of your hands.

 

[Darwin333]

The latest legit estimate was that the project would run about $1B over budget which NJ would owe, though it would be all buried in bonds stretched out over decades at low interest rates. Additionally the state was promised about $900M in ancillary NJ rail projects as an offset, which Christie rejected As far a huge projects go it wasn't going to be hugely overspent...particularly for the benefits it would have provided over the next century.

Christie knew the state would immediately go on the hook for 250-300M due to the terms of the agreement with the Feds. Assuming the state fails to pay quickly the interest rate jumps to 6%. If the unpaid debt goes on affects the state's borrowing rates then you could easily see a overall cost that is MUCH greater than the state would have incurred by following through.

Who came up with the original estimate?

 

[Darwin333]

There is 'good debt'. If you don't think so, you will drive your society into the ground until it's a debt-free wasteland.

Or maybe we should not have borrowed when WWII started, and just stayed out of the war until Hitler and Japan defeated our small paid-for forces.

I don't know the tradeoffs on this project, but I suspect the transportation and Senators who favored it might have a point.

More to his point, there is also 'too much debt'.

 

[Darwin333]

That's the deal with every state that gets a federal grant for a project. Why should NJ get preferential treatment especially since they get all the benefit?

That is kind of a shitty deal. The states actually have to pay back what they borrow.

 

[K1052]

Who came up with the original estimate?

New Jersey Transit.

 

[K1052]

That is kind of a shitty deal. The states actually have to pay back what they borrow.

Because the projects this large are stretched out so many years from conception to shovel overruns are almost inevitable. There are ways to reduce or eliminate them like contracting more design/build, making them submit to independent oversight (which does not exist), and greatly accelerating the EIS and alternatives analysis process.

 

[MrX8503]

When someone starts talking like this to me my eyes glaze over, because at the end I already know what's coming. It's a sales pitch.

In other words you don't have the intellect to grasp what people are talking about so you dismiss them as being ignorant.

 

[halik]

11-29-2010

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101129/ap_on_bi_ge/us_trans_hudson_tunnel

NJ must pay $271M to feds for killing tunnel to NY

New Jersey owes the federal government more than $271 million after canceling a rail tunnel connecting the state with New York, according to a debt notice obtained Monday by The Associated Press. The letter from the Federal Transit Administration's chief financial officer to executive director demands payment of $271,101,291 by Dec. 24.


It's money the government wants New Jersey to repay for work done on the Hudson River tunnel before Republican Gov. Chris Christie terminated the project.



The notification follows a warning letter earlier this month estimating the charges.
"FTA demands payment in full within 30 days from the date of this letter, hereinafter referred to as the 'delinquency date,'" the letter states. The letter was dated Nov. 24.


=========================================================

Well how do you like that New Jerseyians?

Have to pay all that and get nothing for it but stuck in the same traffic.

Isn't that the money that they got from the Fed gov't to begin with? I.E. they're handing the money back, rather than paying something?

 

[Genx87]

Well, NJ would be saddled with any cost overruns, but I haven't seen any evidence that the project would run over budget.

This is a govt project. Take a wild guess if there will be cost overruns.

 

[Craig234]

More to his point, there is also 'too much debt'.

No, you don't get the point.

Everyone agrees there is 'bad debt', and 'too much debt'.

The topic is, is there any such thing as 'good debt'?

That's the topic. He said no, and I said yes.

Try to follow the point, instead of wrongly posting 'more to the point'.

 

[K1052]

Isn't that the money that they got from the Fed gov't to begin with? I.E. they're handing the money back, rather than paying something?

It is in the funding agreement that if the state fails to complete the project all Federal money spent must be returned to the agency that provided it. This is included in every federal grant.

 

[Genx87]

Why should the federal government be forced to pay for the cost overruns? Do defense contractors have to come up with the difference when they overrun their cost projections?

Why are the feds funding this at all? If they are willing to fund such large projects. Why not just fund them and be done? This kind of built in inefficiency is just absurd imo. Either all in or all out. If the feds deem this a worth project then build it. Dont give money to the states and allow them to meddle. If it isnt a worthy project then let the states raise the capital to build the project. IMO this is an example of the the typical fed\state relationship where the feds coerce the states into doing what they want to be done by entcing them with money.