Nine Palestinians Killed

[Dari]

for those that care.
link

One Israeli was also killed.

Question. Why is it that every Palestinian fighter is considered a 'terrorist,' as opposed to militant or freedom fighter? Is it semantics and/or politics.

 

[Heisenberg]

Originally posted by: Dari
Question. Why is it that every Palestinian fighter is considered a 'terrorist,' as opposed to militant or freedom fighter? Is it semantics and/or politics.

Because they purposely kill civilians.

 

[Dari]

assuming that is their motive, so then a person that deliberately kills civilians is called a terrorist? Is that your reasoning?

 

[Tom]

"Why is it that every Palestinian fighter is considered a 'terrorist,' as opposed to militant or freedom fighter? Is it semantics and/or politics. "

Well, it's just my opinion, but I don'tt hink they are fighting for anything, they just believe in killing their enemies. If what they really wanted was a country of their own they had one and screwed up, and they could have had another one a long time ago, if they didn't enjoy killing so much.

I'm sure there are Palestinians who want peace, but there apparently aren't enough of them.

 

[TranceNation]

Originally posted by: Dari
assuming that is their motive, so then a person that deliberately kills civilians is called a terrorist? Is that your reasoning?

yeah duh!!

 

[Dari]

Because they purposely kill civilians.

if that reasonong is correct, then why called them terrorists and not serial murderers? I thought a terrorist was one who terrorizes. He terrorizes because he has no way of winning the battle. Furthermore, if his/her main objective was to kill civilians, then why would he/she put other objectives on the table (such as wanting a land free of occupiers, etc...?) Finally, was the answer you give coming from your perception of the conflict or dialogue with 'terrorists?' If so then, this conflict must be purely black and white? No external factors (read: neighboring arab states) or no grey areas (read: corrupt palestinian leadership, extremist settlers and religious zealots on both sides) come to your mind when making that decision, right? Just black and white?

 

[Tom]

"if that reasonong is correct, then why called them terrorists and not serial murderers?"


I think you are right. "Serial murderers" is more appropriate for utterly senseless killing.

And as far as I can see, there isn't any point to the killing going on. Just hatred. You can turn it around and say Israelis are doing the same thing, which of course, solves nothing.

 

[gopunk]

terrorists are people that systematically use terror as a means of getting what they want. this is different from a militant or freedom fighter, who would presumably try and get what they want in a more direct way. for example, militants trying to get rid of settlers would just kill the settlers. terrorists trying to get rid of settlers will try to put the fear of god into the settlers so that the settlers will eventually want to move out. this is the whole point of suicide bombings... to make the israelis feel insecure so they will hopefully move out.

serial killers usually kill for pleasure, not for any particular purpose. and they generally are a little more personal with their victims.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: gopunk
terrorists are people that systematically use terror as a means of getting what they want. this is different from a militant or freedom fighter, who would presumably try and get what they want in a more direct way. for example, militants trying to get rid of settlers would just kill the settlers. terrorists trying to get rid of settlers will try to put the fear of god into the settlers so that the settlers will eventually want to move out. this is the whole point of suicide bombings... to make the israelis feel insecure so they will hopefully move out.

serial killers usually kill for pleasure, not for any particular purpose. and they generally are a little more personal with their victims.

Hmmm... i agree with that definition of terrorists...

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: gopunk
terrorists are people that systematically use terror as a means of getting what they want. this is different from a militant or freedom fighter, who would presumably try and get what they want in a more direct way. for example, militants trying to get rid of settlers would just kill the settlers. terrorists trying to get rid of settlers will try to put the fear of god into the settlers so that the settlers will eventually want to move out. this is the whole point of suicide bombings... to make the israelis feel insecure so they will hopefully move out.

serial killers usually kill for pleasure, not for any particular purpose. and they generally are a little more personal with their victims.

doesnt that mean that Israel is doing state terrorism?

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: gopunk
terrorists are people that systematically use terror as a means of getting what they want. this is different from a militant or freedom fighter, who would presumably try and get what they want in a more direct way. for example, militants trying to get rid of settlers would just kill the settlers. terrorists trying to get rid of settlers will try to put the fear of god into the settlers so that the settlers will eventually want to move out. this is the whole point of suicide bombings... to make the israelis feel insecure so they will hopefully move out.

serial killers usually kill for pleasure, not for any particular purpose. and they generally are a little more personal with their victims.

doesnt that mean that Israel is doing state terrorism?

Of course they are, but only the bigger army get's to call the smaller one terrorists... didn't you know that?

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: gopunk
terrorists are people that systematically use terror as a means of getting what they want. this is different from a militant or freedom fighter, who would presumably try and get what they want in a more direct way. for example, militants trying to get rid of settlers would just kill the settlers. terrorists trying to get rid of settlers will try to put the fear of god into the settlers so that the settlers will eventually want to move out. this is the whole point of suicide bombings... to make the israelis feel insecure so they will hopefully move out.

serial killers usually kill for pleasure, not for any particular purpose. and they generally are a little more personal with their victims.

doesnt that mean that Israel is doing state terrorism?

i dunno, does it? you didn't really give any examples or explanation, so i really can't tell.

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: Heisenberg

Originally posted by: Dari
Question. Why is it that every Palestinian fighter is considered a 'terrorist,' as opposed to militant or freedom fighter? Is it semantics and/or politics.

Because they purposely kill civilians.

There are israelies that also purposely kill civilians, yet none of the are called "terrorists." It is obviously politics. The US sometimes uses terrorism against other countries, but of course you will not hear it called that here, but if you look elsewhere in the world it is very well known.

Tim

 

[Tom]

"but of course you will not hear it called that here"

Who is stopping you ?

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: Heisenberg

Originally posted by: Dari
Question. Why is it that every Palestinian fighter is considered a 'terrorist,' as opposed to militant or freedom fighter? Is it semantics and/or politics.

Because they purposely kill civilians.

There are israelies that also purposely kill civilians, yet none of the are called "terrorists." It is obviously politics. The US sometimes uses terrorism against other countries, but of course you will not hear it called that here, but if you look elsewhere in the world it is very well known.

Tim

regardless of whether or not other people are terrorists, it's quite clear that suicide bombers are terrorists. there is nothing political about it, that is simply what they are.

i'm sure there are some palestinean organizations that just fight, and do not systematically use terror, and those people are not terrorists. hopefully they aren't mislabeled as such, though i can't remember the last time i heard of such an organization.

 

[TheShiz]

i mean mainstream press, no one is stopping me, thankfully.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: gopunk
terrorists are people that systematically use terror as a means of getting what they want. this is different from a militant or freedom fighter, who would presumably try and get what they want in a more direct way. for example, militants trying to get rid of settlers would just kill the settlers. terrorists trying to get rid of settlers will try to put the fear of god into the settlers so that the settlers will eventually want to move out. this is the whole point of suicide bombings... to make the israelis feel insecure so they will hopefully move out.

serial killers usually kill for pleasure, not for any particular purpose. and they generally are a little more personal with their victims.

doesnt that mean that Israel is doing state terrorism?

i dunno, does it? you didn't really give any examples or explanation, so i really can't tell.

they are using fear as a tactic against innocent people, same as the Palestinian Terrorist groups are doing to innocent israeli civilians

 

[gopunk]

they are using fear as a tactic against innocent people, same as the Palestinian Terrorist groups are doing to innocent israeli civilians

well, i think you just answered your own question then.

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: Heisenberg

Originally posted by: Dari
Question. Why is it that every Palestinian fighter is considered a 'terrorist,' as opposed to militant or freedom fighter? Is it semantics and/or politics.

Because they purposely kill civilians.

There are israelies that also purposely kill civilians, yet none of the are called "terrorists." It is obviously politics. The US sometimes uses terrorism against other countries, but of course you will not hear it called that here, but if you look elsewhere in the world it is very well known.

Tim

regardless of whether or not other people are terrorists, it's quite clear that suicide bombers are terrorists. there is nothing political about it, that is simply what they are.

i'm sure there are some palestinean organizations that just fight, and do not systematically use terror, and those people are not terrorists. hopefully they aren't mislabeled as such, though i can't remember the last time i heard of such an organization.

the fact that you have not heard of a peaceful palestinean organization is what is sad, the only ones that get press are the ones that kill people, I bet you've heard of TONS of peaceful Israeli groups. Ever wonder why that is?

Tim

 

[Dari]

terrorists are people that systematically use terror as a means of getting what they want. this is different from a militant or freedom fighter, who would presumably try and get what they want in a more direct way. for example, militants trying to get rid of settlers would just kill the settlers. terrorists trying to get rid of settlers will try to put the fear of god into the settlers so that the settlers will eventually want to move out. this is the whole point of suicide bombings... to make the israelis feel insecure so they will hopefully move out.

while your logic is ostensibly reasonable, gopunk, the fact is that the PLO and Israel itself has tried to have meetings with hamas and Islamic jihad. The truth is, without this conflict, there would be no hamas and islamic jihad because there would be no rational reason to fight and the PLO would be able to do the humanitarian work that hamas and Islamic jihad currently does. But the external factors and the desire for revenge (on israeli civilians) keeps them motivated. Israel itself is bent on vengeance, that keeps them motivated as well.

That said, since israel is the more responsible of the two sides, they should formulate a working plan to solve this conflict. But labelling everyone that fights you a terrorist will only give you the political capital to continue the bloody conflict (carry out more revenge attacks) and thwart a peaceful settlement.

The PLO is inept and corrupt. Hamas and Islamic jihad are too extreme. I think the working plan that we (the US) has going will bring some calm but the extreme factors (on all sides) has to be dealt with.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: gopunk

they are using fear as a tactic against innocent people, same as the Palestinian Terrorist groups are doing to innocent israeli civilians

well, i think you just answered your own question then.

but I'm more interesting if other agree with me or not

 

[gopunk]

the fact that you have not heard of a peaceful palestinean organization is what is sad, the only ones that get press are the ones that kill people, I bet you've heard of TONS of peaceful Israeli groups. Ever wonder why that is?

Tim

uh, actually i haven't heard of tons of peaceful groups on any side. i don't really pay attention to these matters anyways. i'm sure there is bias both ways.

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: gopunk

they are using fear as a tactic against innocent people, same as the Palestinian Terrorist groups are doing to innocent israeli civilians

well, i think you just answered your own question then.

but I'm more interesting if other agree with me or not

both sides use fear consistently. Tanks rolling around with soldiers and weapons is fear inducing along with suicide bombers. Fear works, just look at the Bush agenda, the only way he can get the ball rolling is create an atmosphere of fear, that Iraq is an immediate threat, which for some reason only the US and Tony Blair seem to think is true, most of the rest of the world would prefer peaceful settlement.

Tim

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: gopunk

the fact that you have not heard of a peaceful palestinean organization is what is sad, the only ones that get press are the ones that kill people, I bet you've heard of TONS of peaceful Israeli groups. Ever wonder why that is?

Tim

uh, actually i haven't heard of tons of peaceful groups on any side. i don't really pay attention to these matters anyways. i'm sure there is bias both ways.

ok, I can't really say for certain what you have seen, but from my experience I see a lot more Israeli sympathy than the other way around, I would like to see more Palestinian opinion in the mainstream.

Tim

 

[gopunk]

while your logic is ostensibly reasonable, gopunk, the fact is that the PLO and Israel itself has tried to have meetings with hamas and Islamic jihad. The truth is, without this conflict, there would be no hamas and islamic jihad because there would be no rational reason to fight and the PLO would be able to do the humanitarian work that hamas and Islamic jihad currently does. But the external factors and the desire for revenge (on israeli civilians) keeps them motivated. Israel itself is bent on vengeance, that keeps them motivated as well.

That said, since israel is the more responsible of the two sides, they should formulate a working plan to solve this conflict. But labelling everyone that fights you a terrorist will only give you the political capital to continue the bloody conflict (carry out more revenge attacks) and thwart a peaceful settlement.

The PLO is inept and corrupt. Hamas and Islamic jihad are too extreme. I think the working plan that we (the US) has going will bring some calm but the extreme factors (on all sides) has to be dealt with.

if there is to be a peaceful solution that is acceptable to both sides, it would seem to me that both sides need to be responsible and reasonable. it is just like an discussion between a normal person and an irrational one. no matter how rational the normal person maybe, it is impossible to sustain a rational discussion due to the irrational person. that's just an analogy, i'm not saying any side is good or bad, but just illustrating the need for both sides to be reasonable.