Nikon D7000.

[ElFenix]

it certainly hits all the checkboxes.

i didn't see a blurb on weather sealing on dpreview, did that make it?

 

[Anubis]

only thing i dont like about it is it uses SD and not CF

 

[gar655]

Nice camera, but I don't see anything that says the 60D is junk or how the D7000 is really much better.

Slightly faster, slightly LESS resolution, slightly less HD video specs ( the AF will be useless), non articulating screen.

It does check a few more boxes- dual card slots are nice though SD is a downer, 39 point AF sounds good except like all Nikon's new AF systems all the cross points will be jammed in the center.

Someone mentioned having to focus and recompose with their 5D, well same thing with Nikon. Just check the forums for complaints of lousy AF with the outer points with Nikon.

A new whiz bang metering system, great for the green box shooters, less important to most others with experience.

So just how is it just SOOOOOO much better than the 60D? And don't even bother comparing it to the 7D. It's very clearly a class below.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Canon needs to get their act together with their AF systems. The 5D Mark II is still using an ancient 9 point AF system with ONE cross-type point, just like on my 5D. In fact, when I moved to a 5D from my 40D, the one big thing I missed was the better AF performance on the 40D. In low light, I am often forced to focus+recompose with my 5D because the off-center AF points simply suck. Focusing and recomposing is OK with slower lenses, but it's far from ideal with a f/1.4 lens on a FF camera.

On the xxD front, the 60D is using the same AF system from the 40D...9 cross points. Nikon has really stepped their game up with this 39 point system, so hopefully that will provoke Canon to 1) develop something better or 2) stick the 7D's AF system into other cameras.

Yeah, the 5D sometimes is thought of as a Rebel AF system, but remember there's 6 invisible assist points. The center point is quite powerful on the 5D.

I do believe Canon needs to remake this.

Also, Nikon loves to stick on a bunch of extra points, but I love my 7D. 19 points is plenty. You could talk about 39 or 51 or whatever, but when only 11 or so are cross-type, isn't that what matters in the end? Most people like to use a single point and focus. Usually zone or all pt AF screws up by selecting something too close. I've only seen zone useful in 1 case on my 7D and that's pretty much it. Having a bunch of extra points is useless. And as someone mentioned, Nikon jams the crosspoints in the middle? I remember there's less vertical spread in the AF in Nikon, but I forget. You could put 51 points with 9 crosspoint only and that's still not too good as the 19pt all crosspoint on the 7D

 

[randomlinh]

Nice camera, but I don't see anything that says the 60D is junk or how the D7000 is really much better.

Slightly faster, slightly LESS resolution, slightly less HD video specs ( the AF will be useless), non articulating screen.

AF being useless will be determined when it gets here, it's too early to tell if it'll work well.

So just how is it just SOOOOOO much better than the 60D? And don't even bother comparing it to the 7D. It's very clearly a class below.

It's not SOOOOO much better, but it's clear nikon is setting up the lineup canon used to have, which I think is more valuable. The 60D is by no means, bad, really. But dual memory slots and magnesium alloy body are two big checks for me, personally. No, this camera is not going to make me dump canon. But if I were to step into the dslr world today, I would certainly give nikon the edge (the 35/1.8 is also another reason.. cheap ~50mm equiv that's good).

I just think Nikon has done a pretty good job at repositioning their lineup. Though, who knows, maybe Canon is simply taking the long road because there's still a hefty gap between the 60D and 7D in retail pricing, body only. I'm convinced they will slash the 7D pricing soon... they just wanted to see what the competition was doing aka milking the 7D as long as the "D400" isn't out yet.

 

[gar655]

AF being useless will be determined when it gets here, it's too early to tell if it'll work well.
It's not SOOOOO much better, but it's clear nikon is setting up the lineup canon used to have, which I think is more valuable. The 60D is by no means, bad, really. But dual memory slots and magnesium alloy body are two big checks for me, personally. No, this camera is not going to make me dump canon. But if I were to step into the dslr world today, I would certainly give nikon the edge (the 35/1.8 is also another reason.. cheap ~50mm equiv that's good).

I just think Nikon has done a pretty good job at repositioning their lineup. Though, who knows, maybe Canon is simply taking the long road because there's still a hefty gap between the 60D and 7D in retail pricing, body only. I'm convinced they will slash the 7D pricing soon... they just wanted to see what the competition was doing aka milking the 7D as long as the "D400" isn't out yet.

Without a "dedicated" contrast based AF system like Sony uses in the A33/55 and Panasonic and other EVIL cameras use, it is destined to be slow.

The mag/alloy body is a partial mag/alloy, it's not the whole body, just the top plate and lens mount area (from what I've read). I have dual memory slots on my MKIIN, haven't ever used the SD slot other than by accident. A feature not really needed in its market segment (non professional, P&S upgraders etc...)

Canon has the 35/2. A little more than the 35/1.8. Probably just as good (mine is sharp at least in the center wide open) and you don't have to throw it out if you want a FF camera.

The D400 is likely to be totally awesome- but really how awesome can they go without killing the D700/ D3s bodies?

I've heard rumor of a CF body for the D400.

Gene

 

[Cattykit]

Nice camera, but I don't see anything that says the 60D is junk or how the D7000 is really much better.

Slightly faster, slightly LESS resolution, slightly less HD video specs ( the AF will be useless), non articulating screen.

It does check a few more boxes- dual card slots are nice though SD is a downer, 39 point AF sounds good except like all Nikon's new AF systems all the cross points will be jammed in the center.

Someone mentioned having to focus and recompose with their 5D, well same thing with Nikon. Just check the forums for complaints of lousy AF with the outer points with Nikon.

A new whiz bang metering system, great for the green box shooters, less important to most others with experience.

So just how is it just SOOOOOO much better than the 60D? And don't even bother comparing it to the 7D. It's very clearly a class below.

Nikon D7000 vs. Canon 60D

100% viewfinder vs. 96%
Much larger viewfinder vs. Much smaller one.
39 AF points vs. 9
6 fps vs. 5.3
3D tracking AF using 39 AF points vs. AI Servo using 9 AF points.
Group AF selection vs. None.
Spot metering on all AF points vs. Only 1 in the center
Internal Flash commander mode. vs. None (or, buy one for $210)
Magnasium Alloy Frame vs. Plastic


If 60D is much cheaper than D7000, such differences would make sense. However, D7000 is only $100 more expensive. Like Canon has once done with 40D, they really need to slash the price of 60D, otherwise this just doesn't make sense at all. Look at it, though the differences in price is very minimal, D7000 has complete dominace over 60D. If you do not notice such hugh differences, you must think Canon's own 60D and 7D is pretty much the same camera.

 

[Cattykit]

Without a "dedicated" contrast based AF system like Sony uses in the A33/55 and Panasonic and other EVIL cameras use, it is destined to be slow.

The mag/alloy body is a partial mag/alloy, it's not the whole body, just the top plate and lens mount area (from what I've read). I have dual memory slots on my MKIIN, haven't ever used the SD slot other than by accident. A feature not really needed in its market segment (non professional, P&S upgraders etc...)

Canon has the 35/2. A little more than the 35/1.8. Probably just as good (mine is sharp at least in the center wide open) and you don't have to throw it out if you want a FF camera.

The D400 is likely to be totally awesome- but really how awesome can they go without killing the D700/ D3s bodies?

I've heard rumor of a CF body for the D400.

Gene

Sony's A55/33 does not use "dedicated contrast based AF." They use dedicated phase detect module.

The back side is also made with mag/alloy.

Though I, too, don't see the need to for dual memory card slots, it's a feature that is always nice to have. In other words, it's far better than nothing.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Nikon D7000 vs. Canon 60D

100% viewfinder vs. 96%
39 AF points vs. 9
6 fps vs. 5.3
3D tracking AF using 39 AF points vs. AI Servo using 9 AF points.
Group AF selection vs. None.
Spot metering on all AF points vs. Only 1 in the center
Internal Flash commander mode. vs. None (or, buy one for $210)
Magnasium Alloy Frame vs. Plastic

If 60D is much cheaper than D7000, such differences would make sense. However, D7000 is only $100 more expensive. Like Canon has once done with 40D, they really need to slash the price of 60D, otherwise this just doesn't make sense at all. Look at it, though the differences in price is very minimal, D7000 has complete dominace over 60D. If you do not notice such hugh differences, you must think Canon's own 60D and 7D is pretty much the same camera.

Yes, thank you, you wrote the post that I was about to write. You did leave out that the 60D has the articulating screen, which is kind of neat and would be especially useful in certain situations like macro shooting.

I didn't know about the D700's spot metering at all AF points. That is pretty cool. Maybe a bit pointless, but still cool.

As usual, the Canon and Nikon product lines don't exactly match up. However, IMO the D7000 is closer to the 7D than it is to the 60D in terms of features and functionality.

 

[randomlinh]

Without a "dedicated" contrast based AF system like Sony uses in the A33/55 and Panasonic and other EVIL cameras use, it is destined to be slow.

do we know for sure how they do it?

The mag/alloy body is a partial mag/alloy, it's not the whole body, just the top plate and lens mount area (from what I've read). I have dual memory slots on my MKIIN, haven't ever used the SD slot other than by accident. A feature not really needed in its market segment (non professional, P&S upgraders etc...)

it will likely be robust enough to be a pretty good backup/secondary camera. if your main camera has dual slots (which seems to be a trend for nikon now), it is nice not to lose that. My comment was of course geared at folks that would find dual slots useful.

Canon has the 35/2. A little more than the 35/1.8. Probably just as good (mine is sharp at least in the center wide open) and you don't have to throw it out if you want a FF camera.

Yeah, their 35/2 needs to be updated. At least with USM, and keep it EF. But that would push it into the $400 territory at least. While I'd be perfectly fine with that, the nikon 35/1.8 at under $200 is a hell of a deal. Though, at the same time, I guess what I'm looking for is a much smaller target market. Canon's game has always been mass quantities.

The D400 is likely to be totally awesome- but really how awesome can they go without killing the D700/ D3s bodies?

they'll find a way. it'll still be better built, and that will be yet another selling point. weather sealing. more compact and K-7 like. join canon in the megapixel wars. I'm sure they'll find a way to differentiate the "D400" and "D800."

regardless, the competition is good. I just wish canon would focus on dynamic range now. That'd be a real nice card up their sleeve.

 

[996GT2]

Yeah, the 5D sometimes is thought of as a Rebel AF system, but remember there's 6 invisible assist points. The center point is quite powerful on the 5D.

Te 6 invisible assist points are only active in AI Servo. They don't work in normal one-shot AF mode.

The center point is good since it's cross type, but the other 8 points are

 

[jpeyton]

What a great camera. For the money, this will be the APS-C body to beat.

Unfortunately, after owning a full-frame camera, no crop-sensor camera will cut the mustard anymore. For still photos, I'd rather own a 2-year-old D700 than a bleeding-edge D7000.

 

[Cattykit]

What a great camera. For the money, this will be the APS-C body to beat.

Unfortunately, after owning a full-frame camera, no crop-sensor camera will cut the mustard anymore. For still photos, I'd rather own a 2-year-old D700 than a bleeding-edge D7000.

I'm with you. Though D7000 is damn great, it's not a 35mm FF camera I desire.
However, I'm eager to see how this one performs. To me, it's an reasonable indicator of an upcoming FF camera. So far, they've included everything and more at that amazing price. Plus, it uses EXPEED2, supports ambient lighting, and added set of Auto WB. With EXPEED2, it's highly possible that nasty gray-cast problem is gone. If, at least, the problem is same as Canon's cameras that use DIGIC4, use of ambient lighting and AUTO WB2 would straighten the problem easily.

If so, I can finally try Nikon's upcoming 35mm FF camera and I have high hopes.


EDIT: After writing this, I read an interview with Nikon's staff and below is what is told:
With EXPEED2, Nikon changed much of image processing algorithms so that problems such as the gray-cast one would not appear.
Auto WB performance also improved to the point staffs at Nikon were quite satisfied with the result. Incorrect Auto WB problem causing green and red saturation problem will also be gone.

To me, it's the best news.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

I'm with you. Though D7000 is damn great, it's not a 35mm FF camera I desire.
However, I'm eager to see how this one performs. To me, it's an reasonable indicator of an upcoming FF camera. So far, they've included everything and more at that amazing price. Plus, it uses EXPEED2, supports ambient lighting, and added set of Auto WB. With EXPEED2, it's highly possible that nasty gray-cast problem is gone. If, at least, the problem is same as Canon's cameras that use DIGIC4, use of ambient lighting and AUTO WB2 would straighten the problem easily.

If so, I can finally try Nikon's upcoming 35mm FF camera and I have high hopes.


EDIT: After writing this, I read an interview with Nikon's staff and below is what is told:
With EXPEED2, Nikon changed much of image processing algorithms so that problems such as the gray-cast one would not appear.
Auto WB performance also improved to the point staffs at Nikon were quite satisfied with the result. Incorrect Auto WB problem causing green and red saturation problem will also be gone.

To me, it's the best news.

you really a girl?

 

[basslover1]

Time to return it

I've decided to keep the D90. I bought it as an upgrade to my D40x and after playing around with it a bit last night (just got it yesterday) it's a definite upgrade. No need to spend more money.

 

[Cattykit]

you really a girl?

???

 

[Sid59]

I've decided to keep the D90. I bought it as an upgrade to my D40x and after playing around with it a bit last night (just got it yesterday) it's a definite upgrade. No need to spend more money.

I upgraded from a D40 a few months ago, knowing full well a D90 replacement would come. D90 is leaps and bounds more camera than the D40. Plus, i told myself if hold out another 2 years or more for an upgrade, the next gen is gonna be awesome.


On a side note: i read that the D7000 will now meter AI/AIS lenses. Ugggh .. i'd love that option for a my AIS 55mm 1.2 =(

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

???

i thought the question was pretty clear.
are you a female?

 

[Cattykit]

i thought the question was pretty clear.
are you a female?

Nope. Have I ever said I'm a girl?

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Nope. Have I ever said I'm a girl?

no, but the name was suggestive and i made an assumption.
so you're just a korean guy with a feminine handle. nothing wrong with that, i guess.





Four posts in attempt to pull this thread off topic.

One word:

Stop


esquared
Anandtech Administrator

 

[slashbinslashbash]

no, but the name was suggestive and i made an assumption.
so you're just a korean guy with a feminine handle. nothing wrong with that, i guess.

Korean? Where did you get that? (not that I really care.... it's just that this seems a really ODD discussion to have in a camera thread.)

 

[Cattykit]

Korean? Where did you get that? (not that I really care.... it's just that this seems a really ODD discussion to have in a camera thread.)

That's what I wanted to say.

 

[basslover1]

I upgraded from a D40 a few months ago, knowing full well a D90 replacement would come. D90 is leaps and bounds more camera than the D40. Plus, i told myself if hold out another 2 years or more for an upgrade, the next gen is gonna be awesome.


On a side note: i read that the D7000 will now meter AI/AIS lenses. Ugggh .. i'd love that option for a my AIS 55mm 1.2 =(

I had the D40x for about the same length of time, it just felt like it was time to upgrade. And the D90 certainly is an upgrade. Plus, I was able to sell the D40x + an 18-50mm Sigma lens for 300. And the guy I sold it to said he would probably take the 18-105 kit lens as well. Essentially paying for half of the D90, and add that to BB's sweet finance deal (no interest for 36 months) I couldn't pass it up.

 

[Viper GTS]

So what's the word on the magnesium body on this? I keep seeing reference to being partially magnesium, but the "leaked" pictures looked pretty complete to me.

I'm trying to come up with a good reason to cancel my pre-order and a partial metal body vs full might sway me towards waiting for something better.

Of course at this point I'll be waiting for the refresh of one of the higher models since the D7000 has pretty well eclipsed the D300S for the moment.

Viper GTS

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

That's what I wanted to say.

wait, so i'm wrong again and you're NOT korean?

sorry, kinda OT.