lambchops511

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How much better is the D60 over the D40x?

I can pre-order one from Japan Camera for $730 (comes with 18-55mm VR lens)

http://woodbine.japancamera.co...d:275687:Section:Specs

I can pick up the D40x from Costco for 680 (comes with 18-55mm without VR)

What I like about this over the D40x is that the lens comes with the Vibration Reduction.

I think this is pretty decent for Canadian pricing?

The only concern with a Nikon camera is that they don't have any autofocus 50mm prime as I stated in the other thread



Or should I wait for the XSi, the XSi seems quite good too?
 

jpeyton

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Text

Much improved high ISO performance.

VR lens.

Dust reduction/removal.

Better battery life.

Orientation sensor.

Looks like a winner. The D40 and D40x were Nikon's #1 and #2 (respectively) best selling DSLRs last year.

MSRP is $749 USD for the D60 kit.
 

lambchops511

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o man, i want to pull the trigger for the d60.......or should i wait till the Canon XSi comes out?

jpeyton: asking you again =P ... you think that the nikon 50mm lens without autofocus will hinder a beginner?

as well, i'll like to try to take some macro stuff, i heard you can reverse the 50mm lens and it'll work nicely, where can I find such an adaptor?

Thanks!!!
 

jpeyton

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The XSi gives you Live View, 12MP, and a 3" LCD; it'll be $899 for the kit. Not bad.

50mm is a good lens to learn on. If you want to learn about photography, shoot in "M" manual mode and learn how to set the exposure yourself. Manual focus vs. auto focus is just a preference; it doesn't make you a better photographer for choosing one over another.

Being a beginner, why don't you pick up a used or cheaper DSLR body?

A used D40/D50/D70 or a Canon Rebel XT will set you back about $300-$400; that gives you enough money to buy some nice lenses. Lenses hold their value, bodies don't.
 

Heidfirst

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surprised that the D60 isn't in stock yet in NA - it is in the UK.
personall;y I don't se it as a massive advance over the D40X & it looks overprice to me compared to other competitors' equivalent offerings.
 

lambchops511

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Originally posted by: Heidfirst
surprised that the D60 isn't in stock yet in NA - it is in the UK.
personall;y I don't se it as a massive advance over the D40X & it looks overprice to me compared to other competitors' equivalent offerings.

I am more interested in the VR kit lens than the body enhancements of the D60.
 

Heidfirst

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surely that is available on it's own though?
& several competitors (e.g. Olympus, Pentax, Sony) will give you in-body IS on comparable bodies for considerably less.
 

ElFenix

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Originally posted by: Heidfirst
surely that is available on it's own though?
& several competitors (e.g. Olympus, Pentax, Sony) will give you in-body IS on comparable bodies for considerably less.

you can get a two lens e-510 from olympus for less than that, for example. though i don't know what canadian prices are.
 

Krioni

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Originally posted by: aznium
jpeyton: asking you again =P ... you think that the nikon 50mm lens without autofocus will hinder a beginner?

Well, obviously I'm not jpeyton but, I can comment on this.

I am an absolute beginner... trust me, a true beginner. I bought a used Nikon D50. I also picked up a used 50mm f/1.8 manual focus lens on eBay for $20.

I've only had this stuff for a few weeks, but I can tell you that I have learned A LOT more using this manual lens than I have using my two auto-focus lens. And frankly, I've had more fun using it. I don't know that I would want that as my ONLY lens, because my wife wouldn't be able to use the camera.... but, for the very low price of admission it's a no brainer and will help you learn. (As a note, these usually go for more like $50 on ebay... I just got lucky).
 

jpeyton

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Originally posted by: Krioni
I've only had this stuff for a few weeks, but I can tell you that I have learned A LOT more using this manual lens than I have using my two auto-focus lens. And frankly, I've had more fun using it.
You're a perfect example of what a beginner should do. Buy a cheap used body and buy some quality lenses to learn on.

If you head over the DPReview forums (a bit more active for photographic discussion than AT), most will tell you that the Nikon D50/D70 were ahead of the curve for their target market. Especially the D50; if you look at the D40 (which is still a great quality camera), you'll see that many features were removed...AF motor, AF sensors, 2nd LCD screen, bracketing options. Not enough differentiation between the D50 and the D70 to make people buy the latter.
 

Krioni

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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Krioni
I've only had this stuff for a few weeks, but I can tell you that I have learned A LOT more using this manual lens than I have using my two auto-focus lens. And frankly, I've had more fun using it.
You're a perfect example of what a beginner should do. Buy a cheap used body and buy some quality lenses to learn on.

Thanks. I would certainly recommend to anyone to save some of their budget for "stuff" to go along with their new camera.

What I think are good purchases:
-An extra lens or two, especially a prime lens to play with
-Lens cleaning stuff
-A good case
-Memory and Reader
-A tripod (I still don't have one of these)
-Last, but not least, editing software (elements, lightroom, or similar)
 

soydios

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Originally posted by: Krioni
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Krioni
I've only had this stuff for a few weeks, but I can tell you that I have learned A LOT more using this manual lens than I have using my two auto-focus lens. And frankly, I've had more fun using it.
You're a perfect example of what a beginner should do. Buy a cheap used body and buy some quality lenses to learn on.

Thanks. I would certainly recommend to anyone to save some of their budget for "stuff" to go along with their new camera.

What I think are good purchases:
-An extra lens or two, especially a prime lens to play with
-Lens cleaning stuff
-A good case
-Memory and Reader
-A tripod (I still don't have one of these)
-Last, but not least, editing software (elements, lightroom, or similar)

Extra lenses = absolutely. That's the point of buying an SLR: you can change the lenses. Good rule of thumb: spend more money on glass than your body(ies).

Lens cleaning stuff isn't necessary, IMO. Specks of dust on your lens won't affect image quality unless you coat your lens in sand. I just use my breath and a t-shirt or tissue, because the optical glass and metal-oxide coating are very scratch-resistant.

I would get sensor-cleaning stuff, however. Sensor dust starts showing up in your images at f/8, and is a problem at f/11 if you have a lot of it. Sadly at f/16 and smaller, there will be dust spots somewhere in the image, because it's impossibly to keep the sensor perfectly clean forever. Landscape, studio, and macro photographers need to worry about it, but sports photogs not so much.

A good case is essential, IMO. Something that gets you quick access to your camera, but still lets you carry a couple lenses and smaller accessories. If you have an SLR, then travel places to take photos, but protect your equipment during transport.

A reader isn't terribly necessary, IMO. I always just plug my D50 straight into my computer. Transferring RAW files doesn't take too long.
There are only two times I've ever used a reader:
First, I used the SD card slot in my laptop during a headshots shoot this weekend, though. It was nice to let the subject pick the photos for me; saved me lots of time in post-processing. I think they were also more relaxed during shooting, knowing that they would pick the final photo.
Second, at the college newspaper, all the editing workstations have card readers so photogs can come in from shooting one game, swap out cards and batteries, then hand the cameras off to the next game's photogs. We use the cameras pretty hard; the only good reason that the editors gave to me for switching to Canon is that the aperture is electronically controlled, as opposed to the mechanical pin-coupled aperture on the Nikons which keeps breaking (when 1 of 2 D2H bodies is out of commission, that's a $400 problem).

Tripod = essential. So many reasons I could list, but it comes down to this: the camera doesn't move during or between exposures.

Editing software = recommended. It's one thing to know how to take pictures, but the next challenge after that is developing them in the darkroom.

I would add to that list a flashgun. If you are serious about photography (even serious amateur), then you should be serious about illumination. Nikonians should get an SB-600 (SB-400 can't do adequate bounce flash), and Canon users should get a 430EX.
 

lambchops511

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thanks for the reply guys, i think i will go for the used route

Is a used D50 w/ 70-300mm for $300 (price may go up) a good deal on ebay? I read some reviews on the lens, it seems to be quite cheap (only ~120 new) but performs quite well. as well theres no VR for this lens, so would this be a problem?

after that I would pickup a 50mm prime and maybe a 18-55 as well for general purpose use?

or pickup a used rebel xt for around 300 as well? and then buy a 50mm prime and a 17-85mm with IS?
 

jpeyton

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Have you tried holding either brand in your hand? The grip on the D50 is a lot different than the XT.

Most D50s on eBay are ending between $300 and $400, so try to find one with a lens, battery, charger, and cables that are all in good condition.

I have the 70-300mm; optical performance is good, but the speed and lack of VR only make it good for outdoor daytime shooting. I don't use it much.

The 18-55mm kit lens is quite good optically and focuses pretty close too. Pick one up if you can, because finding cheap wide angle prime lenses is hard.

For telephoto, finding sharp primes is both cheap and easy. Instead of getting too ahead of yourself, try to pick up a cheap body first and go from there.
 

soydios

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I :heart: my D50. It's the most full-featured entry-level model from any manufacturer, IMHO.
The AF 70-300mm lens is meh. I would pass on it for an 18-55mm and 70-300mm VR, with 50mm f/1.8D for candids and portraits.
The Rebel XT route would give you less telephoto range, obviously. If you're willing to consider a Canon 350D + 17-85IS + 50/1.8, then I would recommend also considering a Nikon D50 + 18-55 + 70-300VR + 50/1.8 kit.

The D50 and 350D will produce equivalent photos, image-quality wise. I prefer the D50 on the grounds that (1) it has a top LCD, (2) it has Nikon's Matrix Metering, (3) it has Nikon's i-TTL flash metering, (4) it feels so much better in your hand than any other camera in the price bracket, and (4) I'm a Nikonian.
 

pennylane

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I love my D50 too. It's a great great camera. For the reasons everybody else mentioned.

I have a 50mm f/1.8, 70-300mm VR, and a Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8. The Tamron is a great lens. Sharp and constant f/2.8 aperture.
 

Krioni

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Originally posted by: soydios
Lens cleaning stuff isn't necessary, IMO. Specks of dust on your lens won't affect image quality unless you coat your lens in sand. I just use my breath and a t-shirt or tissue, because the optical glass and metal-oxide coating are very scratch-resistant.

I'm not suggesting anything expensive... just a simple lens cleaning cloth that you can pickup at any photo shop for <$5. It's just nice to have something that you *know* is clean to wipe the lenses with. I agree, though, that it's can be done without.

Originally posted by: soydios

I would get sensor-cleaning stuff, however. Sensor dust starts showing up in your images at f/8, and is a problem at f/11 if you have a lot of it. Sadly at f/16 and smaller, there will be dust spots somewhere in the image, because it's impossibly to keep the sensor perfectly clean forever. Landscape, studio, and macro photographers need to worry about it, but sports photogs not so much.

What do you suggest for this?... I think my sensor actually has a little bit of dust on it that I'd like to try to remove.

Originally posted by: soydios
A reader isn't terribly necessary, IMO. I always just plug my D50 straight into my computer. Transferring RAW files doesn't take too long.

Well, my suggestion about the card reader is because you don't run the risk of messing up the USB connection on the camera itself. And you don't run the risk of tripping on a USB cable and slinging your camera to the ground. Granted, there's not much chance of that... but it's a very minor expense for the safety of your camera(~$10 on ebay).

Originally posted by: soydios
I would add to that list a flashgun. If you are serious about photography (even serious amateur), then you should be serious about illumination. Nikonians should get an SB-600 (SB-400 can't do adequate bounce flash), and Canon users should get a 430EX.

Good call on the flash... I so badly need to get an SB600. I'll probably have to wait until my Bday or Christmas for that though.
 

Krioni

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Originally posted by: aznium
Is a used D50 w/ 70-300mm for $300 (price may go up) a good deal on ebay? I read some reviews on the lens, it seems to be quite cheap (only ~120 new) but performs quite well. as well theres no VR for this lens, so would this be a problem?

As a reference point on price, I paid $320 shipped for my D50 with a 55-200mm lens, Battery and Strap... that's all. Mine did not come with a charger, so add $15-$20 to the price.

I later picked up an 18-55mm lens on ebay for about $70 shipped and a 50mm manual focus f/1.8 lens for $20 shipped (normally more like $50 + shipping).

Against recommendations, I got an aftermarket charger and battery for $20 shipped total. So now I have 2 batteries... which is handy. The charger I got will also work in the cig. lighter in my car... that might be handy in a pinch.

I downloaded the D50 manual online for free.

I feet that all of the prices I paid were fair.


 

soydios

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Originally posted by: Krioni
Originally posted by: soydios
I would get sensor-cleaning stuff, however. Sensor dust starts showing up in your images at f/8, and is a problem at f/11 if you have a lot of it. Sadly at f/16 and smaller, there will be dust spots somewhere in the image, because it's impossibly to keep the sensor perfectly clean forever. Landscape, studio, and macro photographers need to worry about it, but sports photogs not so much.

What do you suggest for this?... I think my sensor actually has a little bit of dust on it that I'd like to try to remove.

I have used Dust-Aid twice on my D50 sensor. It worked fine, and got almost all the dust out from the corners that I couldn't dislodge using a rocket blower. Beware of using it on newer cameras, though, as some of them have a weaker metal-oxide coating on the low-pass filter. And irrespective of what camera you have, save the contact dust cleanings for when you really need them, as touching your sensor is always risky. Use a rocket blower if possible. And whatever you do, DO NOT FOLLOW KEN ROCKWELL. The guy uses a fvcking shop-vac to vacuum out his mirror boxes. That sounds like a recipe to dislodge the mirror, or shutter, or one of the many other delicate parts in there.
Giotto Rocket Blower
Dust-Aid