I have both a decent car, and home audio system and I cannot tell the difference. So much so that I am selling my 200 disc CD jukebox in FS/FT right now and using a computer hooked up to my stereo for music.
I have both a decent car, and home audio system and I cannot tell the difference. So much so that I am selling my 200 disc CD jukebox in FS/FT right now and using a computer hooked up to my stereo for music.
He did make one good point tho (albeit somewhat indirectly). MP3s and file sharing aren't going away, so clearly the record industry needs to focus their efforts on learning how to profit from this "new" medium rather than just hunkering down and fighting it (and doing a marvelous job of alienating consumers in the process). The argument that CD's should be $1.40 is ridiculous, but lower prices (sub $10) for new releases in conjunction with download access to everything the label has to offer online (with prices running parallel to bitrate of the d/l perhaps) would not only likely make even more money for the labels, but make the consumers happy as well. Sure, you can find lots of stuff via WinMX and other P2P programs, but wouldn't it be nice to go to the label's site, dig around for the album you want, listen to clips of each song to see if it's worth a purchase or not, select bitrate, cough up a few bucks and burn your new disc? Sounds good to me....no virii, no dummy files, no dropped d/l's, no endless searching for obscure music....
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
Especially if you could pay per track instead of having to buy the who CD which might only have a couple opf good songs. One of the biggest complaints regarding CD's is that they usually only have a couple of good songs with the rest being utter crap.
DVDs are a LOT cheaper than VHS tapes would ever be. If you wanted to buy some sort of movie box on VHS it'd cost you well over a hundred bucks back in the early '90s before DVDs came out. Now, you can buy box sets for sometimes below $60. It's all in the price scheme - DVDs are cut down in price because retailers know that people will buy MORE of them if they're cheaper. Cassette tapes were expensive because people would buy MAYBE 3-4 movie cassettes per year. I think your analogy is a little bit backwards. DVDs are a lot cheaper (based on the amount of content/print quality) than tapes.
The fact that DVDs are so cheap kinda undercuts the record labels' whining about "production costs" as well. I seriously doubt Britney's newest offering cost as much to produce as "Titanic" and yet the CD is what? Double the price of the DVD?
I have a high quality home audio systems as well and I have hooked up both my computer and iPod to my system. While they both sound good, I can tell the difference in the mp3s and CDs. From the SACDs I've heard, there's also a discernable difference in those and CDs.
Yeah, I realize that, which is why I decided to use 'colossal' instead of just idiot alone. There is ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON to EDISON'S CYLINDER PHONOGRAPH FROM 1890. Does Dvorak even know what Edison put on the prerecorded cylinders? Hint: It didn't cost Edison a dime.
I agree, if the music listening population still demanded royalty-free and public domain music such as the sentimentals, ballads, spiritual hyms, minstrel, cultural, war, and folk songs that were extremely popular at the turn of the century, then the markup should probably be SIMILAR, though not necessarily the same.
On Edit: I don't know about you, but 'Dixieland', 'Battle Hymn of the Republic', 'Rock of Ages', 'My Darling Clementine" as performed by the Kentucky Toothless Quartet on homemade instruments like wine jugs, banjos, and mouth harps doesn't cut it for me.
Brittney's newest release didn't gross $300 Million domestic at the box office before being released to CD either.
Not justifying the high cost of cds, but movies generally cover production costs long before they hit home video/dvd.
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2000
- 20,551
- 2
- 81
Random babblings:
Can I tell the difference between MP3s and CD-DA? Sometimes. Not all the time, and I'm listening to 128kbps and the only songs I can discern are a few that are well outside of mainstream listening habits. If the radio is good enough for you, MP3 is easily good enough.
A movie that costs $100M to make sells on DVD for $25. A CD costs $20. Why? Does the CD cost $80M in production costs?
Can I tell the difference between MP3s and CD-DA? Sometimes. Not all the time, and I'm listening to 128kbps and the only songs I can discern are a few that are well outside of mainstream listening habits. If the radio is good enough for you, MP3 is easily good enough.
A movie that costs $100M to make sells on DVD for $25. A CD costs $20. Why? Does the CD cost $80M in production costs?
You missed my point as well.
I quoted your analogy of the bread being 5 cents back in the day and now it's $1.19. I don't know why you just went into another rant out Edison.
I didn't even mention him in my reply.
AnitaPeterson
Diamond Member
- Apr 24, 2001
- 6,047
- 619
- 126
I agree with Dvorak.
The music industry has ben complaining that CD sales in the last year have been going down, and that file sharing is at fault.
Of course, they conveniently forget completely about what any communications undergraduate would be able to quote: the Principle of Constant Media Expenditures. Basically, an individual will have a limited amount of time dedicated to the consumption of media (by this, I mean everything, from TV to Internet, DVDs and so on) Well, look at how many new media channels have sprouted over the past year: more cable programs, HDTV, DVDs with many, many hours of extra materials, digital music channels, new and diverse internet sites... and P2P. I mean, when and why would people actually 1) go to a store and buy a CD when for the same money they could get a DVD of "Coyote Ugly" ( ) and 2) when would they have the time to listen to CDs, if even in their cars they now have all kind of new and cool gizmos?
There is also another, totally unforgivable practice: jacking up prices for so-called "Import versions" of various albums, like the Japanese edition of, say Metallica's "Load", coupled with the fact that sometimes it's absolutely impossible to find in the U.S. some excellent albums , or whole discographies, that have been going gold in Europe (and vice-versa). Remember how the record companies played the game of changing Beatles albums, so that they would force people to buy all existing versions in order to have all the tracks?
I have no sympathy for the fat bastards who run this billion-dollar business of putting things like "Britney's Pears" (LOL!) on the market. I can't remember any good album produced last year, for instance...
Last but not least: personally - and I think there are many people like me out there - I very rarely download commercial albums. 95% of what I get on the Net is either bootlegs - concert recordings which, naturally, would never be put on CD by the industry - or live mixes by various DJs, like Sasha, Oakenfold and others. By the way, these mixes are also a category that has serious tilted the balance of time in what my own media expenditures are concerned...
So why should I be prevented from using P2P, when I don't even overlap with the music industry?
The music industry has ben complaining that CD sales in the last year have been going down, and that file sharing is at fault.
Of course, they conveniently forget completely about what any communications undergraduate would be able to quote: the Principle of Constant Media Expenditures. Basically, an individual will have a limited amount of time dedicated to the consumption of media (by this, I mean everything, from TV to Internet, DVDs and so on) Well, look at how many new media channels have sprouted over the past year: more cable programs, HDTV, DVDs with many, many hours of extra materials, digital music channels, new and diverse internet sites... and P2P. I mean, when and why would people actually 1) go to a store and buy a CD when for the same money they could get a DVD of "Coyote Ugly" (
) and 2) when would they have the time to listen to CDs, if even in their cars they now have all kind of new and cool gizmos?There is also another, totally unforgivable practice: jacking up prices for so-called "Import versions" of various albums, like the Japanese edition of, say Metallica's "Load", coupled with the fact that sometimes it's absolutely impossible to find in the U.S. some excellent albums , or whole discographies, that have been going gold in Europe (and vice-versa). Remember how the record companies played the game of changing Beatles albums, so that they would force people to buy all existing versions in order to have all the tracks?
I have no sympathy for the fat bastards who run this billion-dollar business of putting things like "Britney's Pears" (LOL!) on the market. I can't remember any good album produced last year, for instance...
Last but not least: personally - and I think there are many people like me out there - I very rarely download commercial albums. 95% of what I get on the Net is either bootlegs - concert recordings which, naturally, would never be put on CD by the industry - or live mixes by various DJs, like Sasha, Oakenfold and others. By the way, these mixes are also a category that has serious tilted the balance of time in what my own media expenditures are concerned...
So why should I be prevented from using P2P, when I don't even overlap with the music industry?
Like I said above, most all movies cover their costs in domestic + foreign box office returns. The DVD/VHS sales are pure gravy. It takes a minimal ammount of money to transfer the movie to DVD and add some commentary. Most of the work's already finished.
Uh, no, I didn't. Good God I guess I'll have to explain it.
Here is your reply:
What example did Dvorak rely upon to demonstrate what he believed the 'markup' of CD's should be today? He cited Edison's Cylinder Phonograph of circa 1890. Need any more clarification?
They also forget that we have had this thing called "economic slowdown". Not to mention the fact that 98% of music produced by the RIAA-partners-in-crime is absolute and complete crap. Add to that the bullying of customers, crippled "CD's" that wont play in 100% legimate CD-ROM-drives, jacked up prices (there's something SERIOUSLY wrong when a soundtrack of a movie is almost as expensive as the DVD of that same movie (with trailers, extras etc. etc.)!)... And they are actually _surprised_ that sales are going down????
EDIT: When was the last time RIAA said that music-industry faces complete and utter annihilation? Oh yeah, that was when C-cassettes became popular. Well it seems that they were about 105% wrong back then, and it aint one bit different today.
Hmm, I see the problem. Let me clarify:
My analogy was INTENDED to be 'crap', to lampoon the utter 'crappiness' of Dvorak's argument/analogy to an 1890 phonograph as the basis of determining a 'fair' price for today's CD.
If you have trouble with subtleties of English such as obvious satire or facetiae, perhaps you should refrain from responding until you get that worked out? That would be good.
I got that it was supposed to be sarcastic, but it's still crap. You should've used a better example than the bread.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
Why does an Intel Processor of equal speed cost 10%(number out of my ass) more than an AMD processor? Why does an Intel chip cost 50% more than a Cyrix chip of comparable speed?
Why did my Audiovox PDA that's simply a rebadged toshiba unit cost $200 less than a comparably equiped Compaq Ipaq?
Why does a movie poster that cost $.25 to make, cost me $10 to buy?
Why is a Hyundai of equal(or great specs) than a toyota or a honda $4,000 less?
I can go on and on and on and on. Your answer is: Because that's what people are willing to pay for it.
Triumph
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 15,031
- 14
- 81
Here is what I don't understand: The music industry does not follow the economic law of supply and demand. If demand for something is low, then the price of the CD should be lower, but it isn't! Now as an example, I listen to a heavy metal artist named King Diamond. Nobody listens to this guy, he paints his face and sings about satanic crap (it's kinda funny.) Here's a picture of King Diamond so you can get a general idea of what I'm talking about:
King Diamond!
Now I walk into Sam Goody or Tower Records, head for his section, and pull out his CD. $18.99!!!! I walk over to the latest N'Sync garbage. $18.99!!! Where the hell is the justification for that??
I would gladly pay 10 dollars for any CD out there. I think that's a fair price, because I like to have the real deal, and not just some files on my computer. But there's no way in hell I'm paying almost 20 bucks for that luxury.
King Diamond!
Now I walk into Sam Goody or Tower Records, head for his section, and pull out his CD. $18.99!!!! I walk over to the latest N'Sync garbage. $18.99!!! Where the hell is the justification for that??
I would gladly pay 10 dollars for any CD out there. I think that's a fair price, because I like to have the real deal, and not just some files on my computer. But there's no way in hell I'm paying almost 20 bucks for that luxury.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
Obviously that's not the case with Music CD's. That's what the RIAA try's to force upon us but it's back firing on them because sales are down and Downloads of MP3's are at an all time high. If they were to find a way to stop people from Downloading MP3's (it'll never happen) they'd still have a major slump in sales because people aren't willing to pay their price, especially for the Crap they are putting out for sale.
I so agree with this. If not for P2P, I would not have found all the great Essential Mixes of Oakey, PvD, etc.. And then going outside of the mainstream and finding better ones like Tiesto, Blank and Jones, Scot Project, Daniel Soto, etc...
I could never find these CD's or Livemixes here in the US. At least not without paying triple price because they are imports. Instead, I can find good or decent quality mixes online and get music I enjoy. Not some trash they force feed me on the radio/MTV.
No people aren't. That's why sales are down, as Red Dawn and others have stated. Personally, I have purchased only 1 CD in the past 3 years. It was My favorite band's album and the only one I was willing to pay for, AND I found a used copy for under $10. Without those two qualifications, I wouldn't have bought that CD. I was fine when cassettes cost $8-10 each, I had a huge music collection. But I simply refuse to pay more than $10 for any album that has maybe 2-3 good songs on it. This is the same reason I go to the movie theatre's maybe 2 times a year (more if I have free coupons), and rent DVD's the rest of the time. I would much rather pay for a nice audio/video system at home and watch movies than pay $7(per person) for each movie that I want to see. It's ALL about supply and demand, and the problem with the RIAA is that they are trying to subvert this essential relationship by shoving CD costs down our throat while being moral hypocrites.
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