NFL's Top 100 players of all time...

[Sentrosi2121]

Barry is Barry. No one will ever be like him.
Ever.

 

[Perknose]

Glad to see Reggie White as the best DE of all time.

Absolutely. I probably watched every game all those years with the Eagles, and, honestly, he was clearly held by the opposing O-lineman WAY more than half of the time. I'm not kidding. The refs didn't call it because they would have had to call holding all the damn time.

What do you say about a guy for whom the rules had to be different just so they could get through a game? The man was awesome beyond belief.

 

[ProfJohn]

Pure stats are meaningless because of the changes to the rules.

Roger Staubach retired with the highest QB ranking of all time (at that point) now he ranks 29th on the list.

Same thing with the MVP awards. Back in the 70s the award was spread out a lot more. The Steelers team that won 4 Super Bowls only had one MVP award. The Cowboys with 8 Super Bowl appearances only have one MVP winner.

BTW Peyton is certainly a great player, but not sure I would place him in the top 10.

 

[Zebo]

LOL a receiver? gimme a break. Huge niners fan but Joe is no 1...so many come from behinds, so much leadership and motivation. Not to mention he looked like a store clerk. Major overachiever.

Barry is my favorite running back but he was not a team player not a motivator not a winner so I rate plenty above him.

1. Joe
2. JBrown
3. LT
4. MJG
5. Jerry
6. Favre
7. Unitas
8. Namath
9. Jack
10. Lott
11. E Smith
12. D Jones

 

[Zebo]

eJerry Rice shouldn't be #1. Sorry, he was an amazingly dominant receiver (probably the second most dominant ever), but there are other positions that are far more valuable to a football team. .

Exactly, when the ball is thrown right to your hands every-time by a 190 lb man getting heat and pounded I think we need to look at whos throwing. Montana made everyone look good. Taylor, Clark, Craig, Rice...

 

[RPD]

Exactly, when the ball is thrown right to your hands every-time by a 190 lb man getting heat and pounded I think we need to look at whos throwing. Montana made everyone look good. Taylor, Clark, Craig, Rice...

You two can get a boat and goto lonely island by yourselves. You aren't going to find many people who think JW was the best WR ever. One can't even make a case for another WR, his stats blow anyones out of the water by miles and fucking miles.

And lets just stop with the, well he was on a shitty team, stats are stats are stats. There's not an asterisk next to how many yards anyone gets because his QB could throw or because they played in a dome. Stats are the only way to compare players that has any meaning.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Stats are the only way to compare players that has any meaning.

and yet, it's not. look at some of the records from negro baseball. some of those numbers are from outer space. does it mean any of them were better than, for example, ted williams? of course they weren't. it's all about context, which has not been captured by stats. baseball is the most stat-friendly major sport, with over a century of data to mine, and it's all still pretty worthless.

as for the OP, he's got a case of the trolls. if brady had been placed higher on that list than manning he'd dismiss it for what it is: a crap PR release to keep people talking about the NFL.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

A lot of that is interesting, but doesn't come close to meaning much in the end outside of numbers. Most of Elways years were spent with a TERRIBLE team, particularly surrounding him on offense.

A perusal of the offensive and defensive rankings of his teams in the 80s doesn't bear this argument out. For his Super Bowl years of the 80s:

1986: Offensive -- (6 Pts, 15 Yds) Defensive -- (15 Pts, 9 Yds)
1987: Offensive -- (4 Pts, 2 Yds) Defensive -- (7 Pts, 9 Yds)
1989: Offensive -- (8 Pts, 15 Yds) Defensive -- (1 Pts, 3 Yds)

Those are not the rankings of a "terrible" team at all. Their offense was always a top 10 offense in terms of points scored and their defense was top 10 in points scored 2 of the 3 years, with the other year being ranked as a mediocre team. In yards given up, the defense was always a top 10 defense.

Here are the Colts' rankings from last year, which was a Colts Super Bowl loss:

2009: Offensive -- (7 Pts, 9 Yds) Defensive -- (8 Pts, 18 Yds)

Their win?

2006: Offensive -- (2 Pts, 3 Yds) Defensive -- (23 Pts, 21 Yds) 😱

Elway had a bad team for his first few years. That turned around in the mid-80s. You might say he had mediocre offensive talent, but that "mediocre" talent was enough to win the AFC three times. You could argue that Manning has had a lot of mediocre offensive talent the last couple of years. Outside of Wayne, who does Manning have right now? Everyone else is injured.

Putting up even respectable numbers with that 2nd-rate group is really impressive.

You mean like Manning has the last few years with a rotating group of receivers, offensive linemen, and backs? Look at last year -- offensive linemen going in and out of the lineup, Harrison gone, Gonzalez injured, and Manning has to deal with Garcon and Collie along with Donald Brown for the banged up Addai. The same can be said this year, except throw Blair White, Jacob Tamme, and Mike Hart in the mix for the injured Collie, Clark, and Addai.

I'm not gonna pick one over the other, but those stats will lie because they're so skewed by the talent surrounding the QB.

Again, not a good argument. Elway's offensive talent was decent and you could argue very good when he won the Super Bowls in the 90s. The main reason Elway finally won a Super Bowl was the addition of Terrell Davis and a running game.

Can't establish a run? Extra coverage on recievers. Can't hold the O-line? Less fractions of time to get out and find a target downfield. WR not that athletic or talented? Might not be in the right spot in the route or blow it completely.

The Colts have been in the bottom 2 or 3 in the run game for several years. Their offensive line has been decimated. Manning is dealing with rookies and second/third year players at WR while Wayne is doubled.

I will say that I would doubt that many QB's could do what Elway did with the ragtags.

Except Manning and Brady. As far as ragtags -- Garcon, Collie, Eldridge, Tamme, White, and Hart. Enough said.

I'm a Dallas guy, but I don't think that Aikman with 3 superbowls is better than Elway or could even have equaled him on those teams. He was a pocket QB, not a run and gun master.

The only way to objectively compare NFL QBs is via stats, awards, and records. Objectively speaking (which is what dainthomas asked), Elway does not compare to Manning. That isn't even debatable. And his ridiculous comment of "maybe give him another 10 or 15 years" takes the cake. LOL!

Your argument above is highly subjective and open to debate on many aspects (as shown above). And for the record, I do like Elway quite a bit (except where he spurned the Colts). 🙂

 

[IndyColtsFan]

as for the OP, he's got a case of the trolls. if brady had been placed higher on that list than manning he'd dismiss it for what it is: a crap PR release to keep people talking about the NFL.

It seems to me that you're dismissing this list because Brady isn't higher. I bet if Brady were ranked ahead of Manning and in the top 5 you wouldn't be saying that.

For the record, Brady SHOULD be higher on the list. I'm frankly surprised he wasn't. What surprises me even more is that the NFL network and fans were very consistent in his ranking (20/21). Quite frankly, I don't understand it. If Brady were higher than Manning, I'd discuss/debate it, but I could at least somewhat understand it. Heck, I don't agree with Rice being #1 but I definitely understand how he was ranked that way.

Of course the list is just for PR and to keep people excited about football. Football fans (heck, fans of ALL sports) constantly debate stuff like this. At the end of the day, it is fun but meaningless because the only way you can ever REALLY make a list like this would be if you could have all the players play against each other in their primes with the same rules. And that's all we're having here -- some fun debating it.

 

[angminas]

I don't usually say this, but that list is garbage. Bronko Nagurski above John Elway? Anthony Munoz above Barry Sanders? Steve Young at #81? Lawl. You'd think that list was done by Rolling Stone. Garbage. Trash. Basura.

IndyColtsFan, how much Elway did you watch in his first several seasons?

 

[ProfJohn]

and yet, it's not. look at some of the records from negro baseball. some of those numbers are from outer space. does it mean any of them were better than, for example, ted williams? of course they weren't. it's all about context, which has not been captured by stats. baseball is the most stat-friendly major sport, with over a century of data to mine, and it's all still pretty worthless.

You are wrong about baseball stats.

They can normalize the stats by comparing a players batting average vs the entire leagues for a certain year and determine how much better that players average was and assign this a value.

Same with pitching and the ERA+ stat which tells you how good a player was vs the entire league.

This only works in baseball because of the pitcher vs batter dynamic that isn't impacted by the rest of the team on the field or the bench.

 

[Red Dawn]

As a Pats fan I have to say that Manning is the second best QB of all time with Montana being the best.

 

[Whisper]

As with many others, I didn't expect Rice to be #1, but I can see why it happened--regardless of his team-wide impact (which was huge, don't get me wrong), the discrepancy between Rice and nearly every other player at his position is perhaps bigger than any other person on the list, thus making him stand out all that much more.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I don't usually say this, but that list is garbage. Bronko Nagurski above John Elway? Anthony Munoz above Barry Sanders? Steve Young at #81? Lawl. You'd think that list was done by Rolling Stone. Garbage. Trash. Basura.

Anthony Munoz is nearly universally regarded as the greatest offensive lineman in NFL history. I see why he is that high. Contrast that to RB, where there is a huge amount of debate as to who was the best -- Brown, Payton, Simpson, Sayers, Sanders, Smith -- lots of names are thrown about in that debate. Quite frankly, OJ would have been higher on the list had it not been for his issues in the 90s. I'm also partial to Earl Campbell but I wouldn't say he was the best ever. He just kicked major ass.

IndyColtsFan, how much Elway did you watch in his first several seasons?

Quite a bit. I was in high school during their first run of Super Bowls in the mid/late 80s. Don't get me wrong, I like Elway. Maybe he should have been top 20, but people saying he is the first or second QB in NFL history is laughable at best.

 

[Red Dawn]

Anthony Munoz is nearly universally regarded as the greatest offensive lineman in NFL history. I see why he is that high. Contrast that to RB, where there is a huge amount of debate as to who was the best -- Brown, Payton, Simpson, Sayers, Sanders, Smith -- lots of names are thrown about in that debate. Quite frankly, OJ would have been higher on the list had it not been for his issues in the 90s. I'm also partial to Earl Campbell but I wouldn't say he was the best ever. He just kicked major ass.



Quite a bit. I was in high school during their first run of Super Bowls in the mid/late 80s. Don't get me wrong, I like Elway. Maybe he should have been top 20, but people saying he is the first or second QB in NFL history is laughable at best.

I remember his team getting it's ass handed to them in SB's more than I remember the ones his team actually won.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I remember his team getting it's ass handed to them in SB's more than I remember the ones his team actually won.

Precisely. The Broncos were thoroughly embarrassed in three Super Bowls in the 80s by the Giants, Redskins, and 49ers. They were ahead 10-0 against the Skins and gave up 35 pts in the second quarter to a Redskins team led by Doug Williams (their backup most of the year) and Timmy Smith (who?).

You can argue there was no way they were going to beat the 49ers and I'd agree, but losing 55-10? Come on, that doesn't float.

 

[ProfJohn]

The problem with comparing quarterbacks is that the rule changes made in the past decade or so have completely changed the stats for them.

Look at INT percentage for the best quarterbacks by year and look at the difference.

In the 70s the lowest int percentage was 1.9% and only two years did the leader fall below 2%

In the 80s the lowest percent was 1.2% and the best rate was below 2% six times.

By the 90s everyone was below 2%, except for one year.

And since 2000 only one of the league leaders has been above 1.5%

Clearly the rule changes are allowing people like Peyton and others to pile up these amazing stats.

 

[Malak]

The fan rating is obviously skewed to smiley affable players. Barry Sanders is the obvious #1. He made me go OMG that's impossible almost every single time he ran the ball. He just happened to play for one of the worst NFL teams.

I agree. I did my own poll and every single person I asked said Barry Sanders. Jerry Rice is awesome, and I'd be ok with him at #2, but Barry Sanders is the best.

I think people that say the only reason he did good was because the other players weren't as good as current players don't even watch football. Watch a video of Barry Sanders play and compare it to videos of current players. Sanders is the reason Boomer goes WOOP.

 

[angminas]

Elway never had a chance in those games- his defenses (which helped get him there) just evaporated. It's not like he could have done a Super Saiyan and magically pulled out a win with the likes of Sammy Winder and Clarence Kay. Of course he lost when his defense gave up 39 , 42 (35 in the second quarter!), and 55 (RUS?) points. It's a team sport, and he ran up against some all-time great teams, players, and performances.

One man can only do so much. The Broncos didn't even belong there. If not for Elway, we wouldn't even be talking about the otherwise 6-10 (at best) Broncos from those years. Elway was a winja.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

One man can only do so much. The Broncos didn't even belong there. If not for Elway, we wouldn't even be talking about the otherwise 6-10 (at best) Broncos from those years. Elway was a winja.

Great. Now, subtract Manning from the Colts and have Curtis Painter as the starter. 6-10 would be an AWESOME accomplishment in that case.

 

[JohnnyGage]

I agree. I did my own poll and every single person I asked said Barry Sanders. Jerry Rice is awesome, and I'd be ok with him at #2, but Barry Sanders is the best.

I think people that say the only reason he did good was because the other players weren't as good as current players don't even watch football. Watch a video of Barry Sanders play and compare it to videos of current players. Sanders is the reason Boomer goes WOOP.

Sorry everyone of those people are wrong. It's Jim Brown, hands down. Not saying Sanders was not up there, but he is easily behind Payton(played on a lot of bad teams) and Jim Brown. Jim Brown had a lifetime 5 yds per carry which is ridiculous. Barry would be third, and I think Barry would say the same thing. Gayle Sayers is just behind Barry in the running back position.

Edit: Barry also got screwed by the Lions at the end of his career.

 

[JohnnyGage]

Elway never had a chance in those games- his defenses (which helped get him there) just evaporated. It's not like he could have done a Super Saiyan and magically pulled out a win with the likes of Sammy Winder and Clarence Kay. Of course he lost when his defense gave up 39 , 42 (35 in the second quarter!), and 55 (RUS?) points. It's a team sport, and he ran up against some all-time great teams, players, and performances.

One man can only do so much. The Broncos didn't even belong there. If not for Elway, we wouldn't even be talking about the otherwise 6-10 (at best) Broncos from those years. Elway was a winja.

His O-line also evaporated most of the Super Bowls were him running around throwing INT's. During the Top 100 show they showed a high-light of Jerry Rice in the Super Bowl against the Broncos scoring a touchdown. Who was on the coverage? Carl Mechlenberg(sp), that's right a d-lineman was covering Jerry Rice. Not going to win that way.

 

[ProfJohn]

Jim Brown should be considered the best running back ever.

Look at his stats and remember that he did it during a 9 year career and with seasons that lasted only 12 and 14 games.

The guy AVERAGED 104 yards per game!!!

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Quote:
And Rice should be #1. He's hands down the best player at his position, by a long shot. It doesn't matter that there are slightly more important positions to a team, its not even close how much better and more accomplished he is compared to everyone else.

He benefitted more from Montana and Young than Montana and Young benefitted from him, I think.

Umm... You're wrong... But if you want to play it that way then all three of them were benificiaries of Bill Walsch's gimmicky, new-fangled, 'pass first' offense.

 

[angminas]

Karl Mecklenburg was pretty good, but he was no Jerry Rice. No shame in that...nobody was. Especially a linebacker.

You can't win it all without a line, no matter how good you are. When Elway finally got a line, he won big. If he hadn't been 183 years old, they would have won three or four straight. When he retired, the Broncos went from, iirc, 14-2 to 6-11 in one year. (!) And that's with Brian Griese, a very talented quarterback who threw, iirc, 19 TD and 2 INT a year or two later. Not to mention Shannon Sharpe, Bill Romanowski, Mark Schlereth, Jason Elam, Rod Smith, 1000_yard_rusher_X...not exactly a pile of nobodies, even with some at the end of their careers. With Elway, the Broncos were a serious team almost every year...without him, they were sola, perduta, abbandonata. Plummer had near-Elway talent, but he never had half of Elway's drive.

If there were a career MVP award, Elway would megawin. Nobody else has ever been anywhere near as valuable to their team (at least since I started watching football in the early 80s).

Well, okay, Peyton comes close.