NFL Week 17 Thread

[glenn1]

Not to be dismissive of your criticism, but you can’t make a good throw, make that timed pass, when half of your offensive line caves in on you.

You have to start looking at other stats. How many times was he hit, hurried, stressed to make that throw.

If you look at those stats, no one could make a decent throw. If you have an offensive line that isn’t good, you need to adapt your offense. They need a GREAT running back that can block, they need to make short throws, and get the ball out under 2 seconds.

When fans criticize teams or coaches, you have to wonder if they look at the entire play or field. Don’t just look at the QB.

Brady, Manning, and anyone else under that kind of pressure, sucks. The difference between a good QB and a bad one, is thin. I’d take an Alex Smith over Brady with a bad offensive line, because Alex is used to it. Brady plays terribly with a bad Oline. Just look at those crucial stats.

Browns O-line is one of the best in the NFL. Already noted some of the issues with skill players in pass protection. Head coach’s offensive scheme is complicated and asks a lot of a rook QB. I also wouldn’t be surprised if some of his receivers were running wrong routes (or the correct one and he forgot the route and threw it to to wrong place). Even with a clean pocket some of his under throws were truly brutal. I don’t think Kizer is a starter level QB right now but might become a solid journeyman at some point. Draft a better QB this year or get someone like Case Keenum or Kirk Cousins in free agency and make Kizer your backup and suddenly Browns are legit,

Which leads back to ny original point about the Browns being able to get scary good really quickly. Start with decent but not elite core of skill players, wisely use draft capital and (think they have overall picks 1, 4, 33, and 35, and the PHI second round pick this year in the first 2 rounds alone) and $100 million in cap someplace next year to add some elite veteran talent and this team can be over .500 as soon as next year. Would not be a shocker to see them winning the AFC North within 2 years, especially once Big Ben retires in PIT.

 

[Zstream]

Browns O-line is one of the best in the NFL. Already noted some of the issues with skill players in pass protection. Head coach’s offensive scheme is complicated and asks a lot of a rook QB. I also wouldn’t be surprised if some of his receivers were running wrong routes (or the correct one and he forgot the route and threw it to to wrong place). Even with a clean pocket some of his under throws were truly brutal. I don’t think Kizer is a starter level QB right now but might become a solid journeyman at some point. Draft a better QB this year or get someone like Case Keenum or Kirk Cousins in free agency and make Kizer your backup and suddenly Browns are legit,

Which leads back to ny original point about the Browns being able to get scary good really quickly. Start with decent but not elite core of skill players, wisely use draft capital and (think they have overall picks 1, 4, 33, and 35, and the PHI second round pick this year in the first 2 rounds alone) and $100 million in cap someplace next year to add some elite veteran talent and this team can be over .500 as soon as next year. Would not be a shocker to see them winning the AFC North within 2 years, especially once Big Ben retires in PIT.

Ok, let’s play stat junky. What stat leads you to the conclusion that their OL is the best or even close?

 

[BUTCH1]

Not to be dismissive of your criticism, but you can’t make a good throw, make that timed pass, when half of your offensive line caves in on you.

You have to start looking at other stats. How many times was he hit, hurried, stressed to make that throw.

If you look at those stats, no one could make a decent throw. If you have an offensive line that isn’t good, you need to adapt your offense. They need a GREAT running back that can block, they need to make short throws, and get the ball out under 2 seconds.

When fans criticize teams or coaches, you have to wonder if they look at the entire play or field. Don’t just look at the QB.

Brady, Manning, and anyone else under that kind of pressure, sucks. The difference between a good QB and a bad one, is thin. I’d take an Alex Smith over Brady with a bad offensive line, because Alex is used to it. Brady plays terribly with a bad Oline. Just look at those crucial stats.

Yea, that will hold true for almost any QB, they all tend to get a bit skittish when blocking constantly break's down, can't say I blame them, as they are in a unique position to get really hammered by a blind-side as they look down-field for someone open. Since I watch all Patriot games, I've noticed Brady sliding downhill the last part of the season. Vs Buffalo his blocking was supreme but he danced in the pocket unsure of where to heave it, yesterday Gronk had zero receptions in the 1st half, that's understandable since he was often triple-covered. Thing is, they were, (again), shi*ty on 3rd down, going 4/15. This is against a Jet defense ranked 22nd against the pass with little incentive to play very hard. Hard to say what's exactly happening, both Britt + Dorsett are new and neither has established much rapport with Brady. When I watch Garappolo highlight's I see a guy who makes reads insanely fast and delivers accurate throws, but Bill B was in a very tough spot on that situation. If he goes to Kraft and tells him the better option, (team-wise) is to move Brady and franchise/resign Garappolo he probably gets told NO!. Kraft understands how Brady has made him billions over the course of his lengthy tenure and realizes the fan reaction to such a move might be extreme. But if you look at some great QB's historically, exactly that is what happened. Montana?, moved out so Young could play, Farve?, moved out so Rodgers could play, Bledsoe?, moved out so Brady could play. This is why Brady fought the 4 game suspension so hard, he realizes he got his shot when Drew was injured and people would see just how good Garappolo really was if he got the chance to start.

 

[TeeJay1952]

Year after year I think the cream will rise and those with playoff possibilities will outperform "losers" And I am wrong again.

 

[glenn1]

Ok, let’s play stat junky. What stat leads you to the conclusion that their OL is the best or even close?

Joe Thomas, Kevin Zeitler, Joel Bitonio all considered top 20 NFL linemen (although Thomas got injured early).

Using stats is problematic because you can cherry pick to prove almost any point and it’s hard to isolate OL performance. You could say they’re great because the OL is top 5 in YPC rushing (imagine how that would go if they got Le’Veon Bell as a FA to upgrade from Crowell).

Or declare them terrible because they give up a lot of sacks and the Browns have by far the worst QB rating, completion percentage, etc in the league.

 

[Oyeve]

Just glad my Bills finally made it! Can now wear my Bills cap with pride!

 

[JujuFish]

Ok, let’s play stat junky. What stat leads you to the conclusion that their OL is the best or even close?

Joe Thomas, Kevin Zeitler, Joel Bitonio all considered top 20 NFL linemen (although Thomas got injured early).

According to Football Outsiders, the Browns' o-line (through week 16) is ranked 10th in run blocking and 20th in pass protection.

 

[glenn1]

According to Football Outsiders, the Browns' o-line (through week 16) is ranked 10th in run blocking and 20th in pass protection.

Ok fine call them a terrible OL then, it doesn’t impact my larger point. It doesn’t change the facts they have a bevy of high draft picks, ton of money under the salary cap to spend on free agents, and the rest. Presuming the team only “pulls a Browns” and makes terrible choices on half their draft and FA decisions this is still going to be a scary team pretty soon.

 

[JujuFish]

Ok fine call them a terrible OL then. It doesn’t change the facts they have a bevy of high draft picks, ton of money under the salary cap to spend on free agents, and the rest. Presuming the team only “pulls a Browns” and makes terrible choices on half their draft and FA decisions this is still going to be a scary team pretty soon.

I'm not calling them a terrible OL. They're top 10 in rush defense without a ten time Pro Bowler in Joe Thomas for over half the season, as you mentioned. Pass protection could be better, but that line is still miles ahead of Buffalo's (28 rushing, 30 passing).

 

[96Firebird]

Buffalo fans were pretty excited last night...

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffa...d_buffalo_bills_at_airport_photos_videos.html

 

[BUTCH1]

Just glad my Bills finally made it! Can now wear my Bills cap with pride!

Good for you guys!, Bills played scrappy all season, nice to see them rewarded for the effort. Even better, the Ravens, (who always give the Pats issues) were eliminated. The sellout crowd in Baltimore was making a TON of noise as Dalton came under center for the 4th and 13 snap, it looked like, (after watching the Bengals bungle the 1st 3 downs), a trip to the playoff's was just a mere formality when BAM, Dalton nails the slot receiver right in stride and he breaks free for a game-winning TD. The crowd sat in shocked, stunned, silence like a dagger had just been placed!.

 

[spacejamz]

Watching the redzone at the end of the late games yesterday was pretty exciting...

Tampa Bay vs New Orleans, the Falcons vs Carolina, Baltimore vs Cincy all came down to the wire...

 

[digiram]

I'm so happpy my Bills made the playoffs. My kids will finally see a Bills playoff game

In the most improbable way to.

Let's go Buffalo!!

 

[digiram]

Thanks Cincinatti!!

 

[BUTCH1]

I'm so happpy my Bills made the playoffs. My kids will finally see a Bills playoff game

In the most improbable way to.

Let's go Buffalo!!

Hopefully McCoy's ankle is not too bad, he's defiantly a huge part of that offense, still one of the best RB's playing.

 

[glenn1]

I'm so happpy my Bills made the playoffs. My kids will finally see a Bills playoff game

In the most improbable way to.

Let's go Buffalo!!

@JAX is a tough draw. Hoping the best for you guys. Won’t get any easier since @ne will be up nextif they win.

 

[glenn1]

Coach Arians and Carson Palmer to retire and Larry Fitzgerald a FA. Cardinals are going to be bottom of the conference bad next year.

 

[glenn1]

2018 Hall of Fame nominees announced. Can only be five selected, this is a seriously hard panel to pick from.

LB Ray Lewis
WR Randy Moss
G Steve Hutchinson
LB Brian Urlacher
T Tony Boselli
WR Isaac Bruce
S Brian Dawkins
G Alan Faneca
T Joe Jacoby
RB Edgerrin James
CB Ty Law
S John Lynch
C Kevin Mawae
WR Terrell Owens
CB Everson Walls

TO and Moss should be stone-cold locks. Ray Lewis will probably get a nod also although if Isaac Bruce has to wait so can Ray. Dawkins and Faneca are the next best after TO and Moss. I'm guessing Hutch gets the final slot although I think Mawae deserves it just as much.

 

[BUTCH1]

Coach Arians and Carson Palmer to retire and Larry Fitzgerald a FA. Cardinals are going to be bottom of the conference bad next year.

I think we will probably see Fitz retire, I can't see him signing for serious $$ elsewhere because of his age.

 

[zinfamous]

What's the deal with Arians retiring--personal issues or something?

 

[BUTCH1]

What's the deal with Arians retiring--personal issues or something?

I think it's just age, NFL HC's have to maintain a brutal schedule.

 

[zinfamous]

I think it's just age, NFL HC's have to maintain a brutal schedule.

I thought he was pretty young?

 

[BUTCH1]

I thought he was pretty young?

Not really, he's 65.

 

[RLGL]

What's the deal with Arians retiring--personal issues or something?

Health issues

 

[darkswordsman17]

Not to be dismissive of your criticism, but you can’t make a good throw, make that timed pass, when half of your offensive line caves in on you.

You have to start looking at other stats. How many times was he hit, hurried, stressed to make that throw.

If you look at those stats, no one could make a decent throw. If you have an offensive line that isn’t good, you need to adapt your offense. They need a GREAT running back that can block, they need to make short throws, and get the ball out under 2 seconds.

When fans criticize teams or coaches, you have to wonder if they look at the entire play or field. Don’t just look at the QB.

Brady, Manning, and anyone else under that kind of pressure, sucks. The difference between a good QB and a bad one, is thin. I’d take an Alex Smith over Brady with a bad offensive line, because Alex is used to it. Brady plays terribly with a bad Oline. Just look at those crucial stats.

Um, what? Chiefs o-line hasn't been stellar, but there's tons of evidence of Smith just shitting himself when he's not under actual pressure or decides to basically just move into the pressure instead of avoiding it. And the 49ers had a pretty damn good line when Alex had his "good" playing there.