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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
51,811
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Yep ... TWO flukes in fact! ;)

Don't worry .... "Football Team" will win again eventually. ;)
(and MAYBE even pick a real name!)
My point is Eli is nothing special. He's a tier 3 QB. In his prime. He's probably tier 4 or lower the rest of his time spent in the league.

Maybe Trent Dilfer deserves to be in the HOF too because he has a ring...
 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
9,566
916
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I don't think Eli is a HOF-calibre QB over all. However, he has 2 Super Bowl victories, including the biggest upset in SB history. I bet he gets in.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, but like I said, Eli is an absolute lock. It won't take 5 years of eligibility for him to get in. Some wackos think he'll be first ballot, which is nuts but hey. When you beat Tom Brady TWICE in the Super Bowl and are the face of the NY Giants for 15 seasons, you have a lot of street cred with the voters. Doesn't matter how fluky the plays were, or that the defense carried the day.

I'm not speaking to my general assessment of whether Eli belongs in the HoF, but what the media consensus is. The fact that some writers think he could be first ballot tells you all you need to know about his overall prospects.

My point is Eli is nothing special. He's a tier 3 QB. In his prime. He's probably tier 4 or lower the rest of his time spent in the league.

Maybe Trent Dilfer deserves to be in the HOF too because he has a ring...
You forget the NFL Hall of Fame is otherwise known as the NFL Hall of Very Good. Okay, so Eli still doesn't belong. :tearsofjoy:
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
23,544
5,540
136
My point is Eli is nothing special. He's a tier 3 QB. In his prime. He's probably tier 4 or lower the rest of his time spent in the league.

Maybe Trent Dilfer deserves to be in the HOF too because he has a ring...

Ahhh .... sour grapes! (How satisfying!) :p


Sorry but the Giants WON those Superbowls and Eli will be in the HOF. (I know it hurts)
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
51,811
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Ahhh .... sour grapes! (How satisfying!) :p


Sorry but the Giants WON those Superbowls and Eli will be in the HOF. (I know it hurts)
You are making some bold assumptions here. I'm not sour at all. I'm probably more critical about WFT than anyone on here.

No one ever said they didn't win. In fact if you read my first quote, I clearly said that they DID win.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
51,811
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Nice of you to admit it! ;)

(fwiw WFT should be better then the Giants this season... I'm calling 6 wins for NY)
Yeah I think the Cowboys or WFT will win the division, but repeat division winners in NFCE is just not a thing. It also depends on Dak's health.

Eagles and Giants are fighting for the bottom.

But again, this is all on paper, before a game has been played. After this weekend it could be a different story.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
23,544
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Yeah I think the Cowboys or WFT will win the division, but repeat division winners in NFCE is just not a thing. It also depends on Dak's health.

Eagles and Giants are fighting for the bottom.

But again, this is all on paper, before a game has been played. After this weekend it could be a different story.

If NY isn't going to win (and I sincerely doubt they will) then I WILL be pulling for Fitz!

:p


And as a sidebar, I MISSED football! :D
 

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
4,448
154
106
You all are acting like Eli beat Tom Brady and the 18-0 Patriots 100-99 in a shootout.

They won because of a fluke ass hail mary that his receiver caught with his fucking helmet on 3rd down.

There was also blatant offensive holding on that play that was not called.

Sure they won, but let's not act like he fucking destroyed the Patriots single handedly. The Giants defense had way more to do with that win than Eli did. They held the Patriots to 14 points.
No one is claiming that. He did his job and won. Short of extreme examples (like 5 fumbles by the RB or special teams), if a team wins or loses it's usually tied to the play of the QB.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
51,811
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No one is claiming that. He did his job and won. Short of extreme examples (like 5 fumbles by the RB or special teams), if a team wins or loses it's usually tied to the play of the QB.
The Giants offense that year was pretty middle of the pack.

The defense was above average for sure.

I mean also, the team made it in as a wild card and barely had above a 500 record.

So nearly as many losses as wins were on the QB then.

(and I'm not disagreeing about your statement with w/l being attributed to the QB - I personally hate that shit but it's just the way it is)
 

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
4,448
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The Giants offense that year was pretty middle of the pack.

The defense was above average for sure.

I mean also, the team made it in as a wild card and barely had above a 500 record.

So nearly as many losses as wins were on the QB then.

(and I'm not disagreeing about your statement with w/l being attributed to the QB - I personally hate that shit but it's just the way it is)
Eli is an interesting case for sure. I don't know how those Giants SB teams stacked up defensively (obviously they were good), but no one thinks of them as the Ravens or Steelers of yore. I bring up because no one thinks Trent Dilfer as a HF QB because of how stacked the defensive was. It's a sliding scale, but you get the idea..
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
23,544
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Eli is an interesting case for sure. I don't know how those Giants SB teams stacked up defensively (obviously they were good), but no one thinks of them as the Ravens or Steelers of yore. I bring up because no one thinks Trent Dilfer as a HF QB because of how stacked the defensive was. It's a sliding scale, but you get the idea..

Both Eli's Giants championship teams were tough on the defensive side of the ball especially on the pass-rush, but you are correct that they were not at the level of Dilfer's Bucs. (or the 1986/1990 Giants teams)

Comparing Dilfer who was a pure "game-manager" to Eli who was fully capable of carrying the entire team on his back is just silly. (he could just as easily also trip over his own feet and throw the ball to the other team!) Dilfer was a "don't lose the game" QB which was perfect for TB at the time.

Like him or not Eli was "clutch" like very few other athletes. What he accomplished puts him in some seriously rarified air with the likes of Reggie Jackson, Kirk Gibson and John Elway among others. (hence the 2x MVP's)
 
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Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,712
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Eli made the plays when it counted. That much you can't take away from him. But you can't put as much on his back as other more skilled quarterbacks.

I think he deserves HOF status because he beat serious competition and "made history".

But the loser Big Blue fans are hyping him up just a tad.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
23,544
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But the loser Big Blue fans are hyping him up just a tad.

Bite me. ;)




THIS season however I expect you'll have plenty of chances to make fun of the Giants for which I will have ZERO snappy comebacks!

o_O





Incredible tackle there hmmm? :rolleyes:




Daniel Jones 2020 turnovers compilation (16)

Without watching the entire games its tough to really appreciate the sheer ineptitude this team shows on offense at times.
 
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Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,712
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Bite me. ;)




THIS season however I expect you'll have plenty of chances to make fun of the Giants for which I will have ZERO snappy comebacks!

o_O
I feel neutral regarding the two Giants-Pats Super Bowl wins because making Tom Brady imperfect is a boon to posterity and history.

So, for the rings I don't like the fact the Giants have won, there are only two. Last I checked, da Football Team has three.

As a realist, your boys will probably pull the usual witchcraft and manage to beat the Redskins or even sweep. I've seen the magic one too many times. Remember, it's Ryan Fitzpatrick until further notice, so the opponent is ALWAYS IN THE GAME.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
23,544
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As a realist, TOTAL PESSIMIST your boys will probably pull the usual witchcraft and manage to beat the Redskins or even sweep. I've seen the magic one too many times. Remember, it's Ryan Fitzpatrick until further notice, so the opponent is ALWAYS IN THE GAME.
Fixed. ;) (I have more faith in your team then you do lol)

However my SECOND favorite NFL team is Gang-Green (ouch) ... I'm well aware of what Fitz is capable of!



:D

Even so I would like the Giants chances a lot better with Fitz then Jones.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
14,657
11,646
136
I love Easy Eli and the Giants are my team. He will never be your prototypical HOF QB because regular season Eli would be one of the most average quarterbacks to get in the HOF and that's just a fact. He probably will get in due to two magical playoff runs, but not on the first ballot for sure, and he doesn't deserve to be first ballot. I can't say he deserves to be in at all but if and when he gets in it will be all about just being a resilient quarterback in general, helming one of the NFL's blue chip franchises and never wavering, and his two epic playoff runs where he showed how he is just unflappable. It's a special trait. His two superbowl runs were great playoffs for him, especially 2011 he put up great stats throughout the playoffs. Both times they were wild card teams and both times he ran that offense to win, he was no game manager. Our defensive line was the primary focus on the D - Strahan, Osi, Tuck, and JPP for the one SB.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
23,544
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I love Easy Eli and the Giants are my team. He will never be your prototypical HOF QB because regular season Eli would be one of the most average quarterbacks to get in the HOF and that's just a fact. He probably will get in due to two magical playoff runs, but not on the first ballot for sure, and he doesn't deserve to be first ballot. I can't say he deserves to be in at all but if and when he gets in it will be all about just being a resilient quarterback in general, helming one of the NFL's blue chip franchises and never wavering, and his two epic playoff runs where he showed how he is just unflappable. It's a special trait. His two superbowl runs were great playoffs for him, especially 2011 he put up great stats throughout the playoffs. Both times they were wild card teams and both times he ran that offense to win, he was no game manager. Our defensive line was the primary focus on the D - Strahan, Osi, Tuck, and JPP for the one SB.

He deserves to be in but I agree 1st ballot is certainly debatable.

Thing is had Eli retired as soon as the writing was on the wall regarding the Giants steep decline, most of his career numbers would look a lot whole lot better. The last couple losing seasons really put a hurting on his career stats.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
23,544
5,540
136

I think Tampa takes a step backwards this year ... to be fair not that there's anyplace to go but down from winning it all.

:p :rolleyes:

For the first half-two thirds of the season in 2020 Tampa/Brady really didn't play all that well and that's closer to the team I expect we'll see. (I freely admit my dislike for golden-boy is showing!)

They will most likely beat Dallas though.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,712
1,584
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I think Tampa takes a step backwards this year ... to be fair not that there's anyplace to go but down from winning it all.

:p :rolleyes:

For the first half-two thirds of the season in 2020 Tampa/Brady really didn't play all that well and that's closer to the team I expect we'll see. (I freely admit my dislike for golden-boy is showing!)

They will most likely beat Dallas though.
Well, part of that was that Arians then had yet to bend his knee to Tommy. Now, Brady's the only fat Leo cat in the room.
No doubt the hangover will be there to start the season. They'll probably take a month to get into the groove.

Dallas is gonna have to win a shootout since Quinn is one of those overrated cover-3ers from the Seahawks who has no real coaching talent but the Legion of Boom covered for such deficiencies. Brady would have no problem reading that simple D.
 

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