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NFL rule question

A

Argo

Lifer
Since when is unintentional facemask doesn't result in loss of down? I've seen it happen several times this year. On 1st and 10 running back will rush for 4 yards and get 5yd facemask. Instead of it being 2nd and 1, it is 1st and 1. Kind of a stupid rule, considering that with all other penalties acceptance of a penalty causes a loss of down. Also, if I'm not mistaken it wasn't like this last year.
 
Originally posted by: murphy55d
This doesn't sound right. It should just be 5 yards to the end of the play.
Click to expand...

Right, 5 yards and loss of down. This year I've seen it 3 times called as 5 yards + down stays the same.
 
Originally posted by: Argo
Originally posted by: murphy55d
This doesn't sound right. It should just be 5 yards to the end of the play.
Click to expand...

Right, 5 yards and loss of down. This year I've seen it 3 times called as 5 yards + down stays the same.
Click to expand...


Well it isn't really "loss of down". It's just added to the end of the play. So if it's 1st and 10, a RB gets 2 yards and has his facemask grabbed, it should then be 2nd and 3.
 
Originally posted by: murphy55d
Originally posted by: Argo
Originally posted by: murphy55d
This doesn't sound right. It should just be 5 yards to the end of the play.
Click to expand...

Right, 5 yards and loss of down. This year I've seen it 3 times called as 5 yards + down stays the same.
Click to expand...


Well it isn't really "loss of down". It's just added to the end of the play. So if it's 1st and 10, a RB gets 2 yards and has his facemask grabbed, it should then be 2nd and 3.
Click to expand...

Right, that's what I thought too. But this year it's been called 1st and 3, so I was wondering if there was a change in the rule.
 
Originally posted by: murphy55d
Originally posted by: Argo
Originally posted by: murphy55d
This doesn't sound right. It should just be 5 yards to the end of the play.
Click to expand...

Right, 5 yards and loss of down. This year I've seen it 3 times called as 5 yards + down stays the same.
Click to expand...


Well it isn't really "loss of down". It's just added to the end of the play. So if it's 1st and 10, a RB gets 2 yards and has his facemask grabbed, it should then be 2nd and 3.
Click to expand...

:beer:
 
Well, obviously it would be a first down of the five yard penalty pushed the line of scrimmage past the first down line.
 
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Well, obviously it would be a first down of the five yard penalty pushed the line of scrimmage past the first down line.
Click to expand...


Yeah, 1st and 10. Not first and 1, or some other silly number.
 
Wait a minute...I didn't pay enough attention:

If offense is penalize for facemask on first down, it'd be 1st & 15
If defense is penalized, it would be 1st and 5.
 
Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
Wait a minute...I didn't pay enough attention:

If offense is penalize for facemask on first down, it'd be 1st & 15
If defense is penalized, it would be 1st and 5.
Click to expand...

Huh?

it's added to the result of the play. You don't re-play the down. So your theory only holds true if the result of the play was no gain.
 
Originally posted by: murphy55d
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Well, obviously it would be a first down of the five yard penalty pushed the line of scrimmage past the first down line.
Click to expand...


Yeah, 1st and 10. Not first and 1, or some other silly number.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know it would be the first down if the penalty pushed it past the 1st and 10. The three scenarios I saw this year:

1) Giants 3rd and 15. They run for no gain and get 5yd facemask. Instead of it being 4th and 10, it's 3rd and 10.
2) Jets game today. Curtis rushes for 3 yards on 1st and 10 and gets 5yd facemask. Ref declares it 1st and 2, instead of second down.

Forgot the 3rd scenario but it was somewhere in the middle of the season. All 3 times announcers acted like this was a correct call, which leads me to believe the rule has changed.
 
Originally posted by: Argo
Originally posted by: murphy55d
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Well, obviously it would be a first down of the five yard penalty pushed the line of scrimmage past the first down line.
Click to expand...


Yeah, 1st and 10. Not first and 1, or some other silly number.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know it would be the first down if the penalty pushed it past the 1st and 10. The three scenarios I saw this year:

1) Giants 3rd and 15. They run for no gain and get 5yd facemask. Instead of it being 4th and 10, it's 3rd and 10.
2) Jets game today. Curtis rushes for 3 yards on 1st and 10 and gets 5yd facemask. Ref declares it 1st and 2, instead of second down.

Forgot the 3rd scenario but it was somewhere in the middle of the season. All 3 times announcers acted like this was a correct call, which leads me to believe the rule has changed.
Click to expand...

SUMMARY OF PENALTIES

Automatic First Down

1. Awarded to offensive team on all defensive fouls with these exceptions:

(a) Offside.
(b) Encroachment.
(c) Delay of game.
(d) Illegal substitution.
(e) Excessive time out(s).
(f) Incidental grasp of facemask.
(g) Neutral zone infraction.
(h) Running into the kicker.
(i) More than 11 players on the field at the snap.

So, no. You would not get an automatic first down if the facemask was ruled incidental.

Text
 
Well, that was never the argument. The question was if you lose a down or not. Everybody here including me think you should lose the down, but seems like this year officials call it differently.
 
I just saw it tonight in the Giants game. 1st down, 1 yard run, facemask penalty on the defense, next play is 1st and 4.
 
The same thing happened again in tonight's game against Dallas. Tiki rushed for no gain on 1st and 10. Got a 5 yd face mask and it's 1st and 5 all of a sudden. I guess they did change the rule.
 
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