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Next Next-Gen Rumors - Intel gets PS4 GPU, AMD/ATI gets MS and Nintendo

Queasy

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
The Inquirer is reporting that Sony is moving from Nvidia to Intel's Larabee GPU on the strength of Intel's stability and a theoretically good architecture.

Meanwhile, AMD/ATI likely has MS and Nintendo locked up based on the good relations fostered from the 360 and Wii builds.
 
Well, one obviously has to take a rumor like this with a huge grain of salt or 2, but frankly I'd find it hard to believe that Sony would rely on Intel for its GPU.

Would be quite a blow for nVidia though if they were left out of the next gen consoles. But again, I don't see that happening.
 
Originally posted by: Slick5150
Well, one obviously has to take a rumor like this with a huge grain of salt or 2, but frankly I'd find it hard to believe that Sony would rely on Intel for its GPU.

Would be quite a blow for nVidia though if they were left out of the next gen consoles. But again, I don't see that happening.
Click to expand...

Yah, this would be a huge blunder on Sony's part to stick with Intel on the GPU - so unimpressed by their onboard GPUs. I'm also not sure it could hurt nV though, it takes a long time for the return to come in the console market.
 
Let me add one more big IF to the pile: If Sony is switching horses in the hardware race while MS and Nintendo say the same, backwards compatibility will be prominently affected.
 
There's a long thread on inte/-ps4 in Video forum if anyone's interested.

My take is that the only sane choice for the PS4 is 2-4 PS3s duct-taped together (Cell + nVidia). This:
- gives PS3 back compatibility for free, unlike the hardware-based (= extra-cost) BC in PS3.
- keeps the design cost low (just add identical extra cores and streams/shaders and do another die shrink on the chips).
- lets publishers / studios use existing engines, libraries, tools and experience almost as-is just adjusting to allow using the extra cores/shaders/streams.
- lets a single set of code and assets be used for both PS4 and the 20+ million PS3s. It might not take much more effort than to flip some compilation switches (like 640p vs. 1080p screen resolution) and then rebuilding the executable.

They get none of that with a GPU switch, developers are told to start back at square one.
 
Originally posted by: CKDragon
Let me add one more big IF to the pile: If Sony is switching horses in the hardware race while MS and Nintendo say the same, backwards compatibility will be prominently affected.
Click to expand...

No BC for PS3 titles would be unacceptable for a lot of people, I can't see them doing something like that.
 
Originally posted by: SneakyStuff
Originally posted by: CKDragon
Let me add one more big IF to the pile: If Sony is switching horses in the hardware race while MS and Nintendo say the same, backwards compatibility will be prominently affected.
Click to expand...

No BC for PS3 titles would be unacceptable for a lot of people, I can't see them doing something like that.
Click to expand...

Sony will obviously continue using the Cell architecture for the PS4 so that would make BC easier. The GPU might be a little trickier though.
 
I can see ms and nintendo sticking around. But I don't see why Sony would go with Intel. Intel has yet to show anything. Not even a video card for desktop gamers. I would think Sony would want to see if developers can work with larabee before sticking it into their next system. Unless Intel is paying Sony a huge amount of money to use it its retarded. Sony must want developers to work hard on coding games for it. Must think it gives them some satisfaction.
 
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
My take is that the only sane choice for the PS4 is 2-4 PS3s duct-taped together (Cell + nVidia).
Click to expand...
Some thoughts:
1. A Cell with 2-4 times the number of PPEs and SPUs is going to be _very_ hard to wring amazing performance from. I'm not saying _impossible_, but filling 30 SPUs is going to be two orders of magnitude harder than just filling 6 of them. Now, a faster-clocked Cell with maybe a second PPE and a few more SPUs - that could get interesting.
2. The article states that Sony and nVidia are not exactly friends anymore. If this is true, it's unlikely that Sony is going to want nVidia in charge of the GPU for the PS4.

That's not to say that Cell+Larrabee is going to be all that pleasant for developers, either, but if Sony's getting a good deal on Larrabee chips, it might be worth a go. If Sony decided BC wasn't worth it, I should hope they'd just ditch the Cell and go with something more conventional from IBM - it's pretty obvious that the Cell has been more of a liability than an asset for developers.
 
Very interesting, although I'd like to see Nvidia in the loop...why will no one go with Intel/Nvidia? I'd be oh so happy...
 
Originally posted by: erwos
If Sony decided BC wasn't worth it, I should hope they'd just ditch the Cell and go with something more conventional from IBM - it's pretty obvious that the Cell has been more of a liability than an asset for developers.
Click to expand...

I'd imagine if word got out that the PS4 was dropping the Cell architecture that all the devs that are trying to wrangle performance out of the PS3 might be less inclined to allocate time and resources trying to learn it.

EDIT: I'm not saying that I think it can't happen or necessarily disagree with you, I'm just throwing it out there.
 
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Next-Next-Gen??? You mean Next-Gen cus this is the current Gen unless you're talking about the Gen after Next-Gen.
Click to expand...

I'm doing a play on words. Work with me here. 😛

Next Next-Gen. The next next-generation....since the 360/PS3/Wii were called next-gen for so long...
 
Originally posted by: biggestmuff
The Inquirer.
Click to expand...

This.

Given that the next PS4 isn't supposed to come until at least 10 years after the debut of the PS3, I have to think a much better gpu will be available than the (vaporware?) Larabee gpu.
 
Originally posted by: tdawg
Originally posted by: biggestmuff
The Inquirer.
Click to expand...

This.

Given that the next PS4 isn't supposed to come until at least 10 years after the debut of the PS3, I have to think a much better gpu will be available than the (vaporware?) Larabee gpu.
Click to expand...

The PS4 is going to come out well before that. Sony says the PS3 will have a 10 year lifespan, and that might be true. That doesn't mean the next product won't come out before the end of the PS3's life. They're still making PS2s now, and probably will for another year or two.

The PS4 will come out within a year of the next Xbox's release.
 
Originally posted by: Slick5150
Well, one obviously has to take a rumor like this with a huge grain of salt or 2, but frankly I'd find it hard to believe that Sony would rely on Intel for its GPU.

Would be quite a blow for nVidia though if they were left out of the next gen consoles. But again, I don't see that happening.
Click to expand...

Ya, seeing how Intel is reelasing a GPU/CPU combo chip next year (or is it this year?)...
 
I think Sony should just focus MORE on the PS3. As someone stated, if they announce a new architecture then the developers who are barely developing for the PS3 now, would probably give up. Sony would shoot themselves in the foot if they go that route. The PS3 has so much untapped potential and Sony needs to tap it. Nintendo needs to do a complete revamp next-gen. The wii is just a gamecube in a smaller package. Nintendo needs to get some serious HW in their next console. MS, is, well, MS. Whatever they do the developers will jump all over it. Hopefully they will use the same manus as they are using now. Would be nice if the next xbox had full xbox and 360 BC.
 
Originally posted by: CKDragon
Let me add one more big IF to the pile: If Sony is switching horses in the hardware race while MS and Nintendo say the same, backwards compatibility will be prominently affected.
Click to expand...

I'd be skeptical of Nintendo retaining backwards compatibility anyway. The Wii's gpu is so different from any modern graphics chip that the only reasonable way to ensure backwards compatibility would be to include the entire chip in the new system. (which would be possible considering how small it would be at 45nm or even 32nm)

I think ATI sold the rights to the Wii graphics chip along with the rest of their consumer electronics division though.

BTW, PS3 used OpenGL, so as long as the Intel GPU implements the same subset of OpenGL features, Sony is good with backwards compatibility.
 
Originally posted by: CKDragon
Let me add one more big IF to the pile: If Sony is switching horses in the hardware race while MS and Nintendo say the same, backwards compatibility will be prominently affected.
Click to expand...

True, but Sony's already given up on backwards compatibility on the PS3 (despite the fact that the PS2 has an existing humongous customer base). Why would the PS4 be any different?
 
Originally posted by: tk149
Originally posted by: CKDragon
Let me add one more big IF to the pile: If Sony is switching horses in the hardware race while MS and Nintendo say the same, backwards compatibility will be prominently affected.
Click to expand...

True, but Sony's already given up on backwards compatibility on the PS3 (despite the fact that the PS2 has an existing humongous customer base). Why would the PS4 be any different?
Click to expand...

Neither PS3 nor 360 have "given up" on backwards compatibility.

They've just gone to a very primitive version of their new business model - digitally distributing "classic" games. It's very similar to the Wii and the virtual console.

I am certain the next generation of consoles will have a more robust system of downloading games for previous systems. However, their disc-based counterparts will remain proprietary to the consoles they were released on.
 
Originally posted by: ducci
Originally posted by: tk149
Originally posted by: CKDragon
Let me add one more big IF to the pile: If Sony is switching horses in the hardware race while MS and Nintendo say the same, backwards compatibility will be prominently affected.
Click to expand...

True, but Sony's already given up on backwards compatibility on the PS3 (despite the fact that the PS2 has an existing humongous customer base). Why would the PS4 be any different?
Click to expand...

Neither PS3 nor 360 have "given up" on backwards compatibility.

They've just gone to a very primitive version of their new business model - digitally distributing "classic" games. It's very similar to the Wii and the virtual console.

I am certain the next generation of consoles will have a more robust system of downloading games for previous systems. However, their disc-based counterparts will remain proprietary to the consoles they were released on.
Click to expand...

I guess we have different definitions for "backwards compatibility." For me, it means that owners of older generation games (PS2) can buy a newer generation console (PS3), and still use all their old (PS2) games without having to spend another penny.

I'm not saying that the digital download model is bad. But it sucks if you have 20 older games, and then Sony/Microsoft says you have to buy them AGAIN if you want to play them on the newer console. Especially after both companies promised backwards compatibility and then reneged on their promises. Also, not all older generation games are available for digital download, at least for the PS3 (I don't know about the 360).

The Wii's virtual console is cool, but the Wii is also 100% backwards compatible with Gamecube games. Nintendo, at least, kept their promise.
 
Eh. I think hardware is to the point where the power of the GPU is somewhat irrelevant. Once you hit 1080p (60fps) at a reasonable level it all comes down to art direction and gameplay. Just make some fun games and good online play and everyone's happy.
 
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