Next generation Chevy Tahoe to be unveiled this Tuesday

[MisterCornell]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: MisterCornell

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: nourdmrolNMT1

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Go GM.... keep it up with the gas guzzlers!

yup, GM is the only one who makes gas guzzlers.

Obviously they aren't, but they're the only ones betting their future on them.

Where's the proof for this?

GM's lack of hybrids is a good start.

Don't forget advertising campagins. I'd say well over 50% are for trucks and SUVs.

Over 50% of the market is light trucks and has been for a number of years. Don't be a dumbass. GM sells what people want to buy.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
Fact of the matter is that the world needs trucks; moving a 3-ton+ vehicle with any gusto, while allowing it to tow another 2-5 tons just can't be done ATM w/anything but a petroleum burning vehicle, be it diesel or gasoline powered.

I have no problem with having the right tools for the job. If your application requires hauling 3 tons of whatever, good, buy a truck. If your application is hauling your whining brats to the mall, then you need a minivan or a sedan, both of which can and should be hybrids.

That's the problem I have... people buying 2 ton trucks that get 10mpg when they could buy a sedan with no problem beyond a loss of thier "status".

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: MisterCornell

It's GM's best selling platform. They sell, what, a million plus GMT 800 vehicles a year? That might be as many vehicles as Honda's or Nissan's entire lineup put together. Of course improving the quality of their trucks (which are outdated and have to be incentivized) will be integral to any turn around plan.

Then why did you question the comment that GM was betting their future on them? They cancelled their large RWD car platform to channel more money to their light truck platform. Their mainstream car platforms have largely languished over the years as they basked in the glow of SUV profits. So where does that leave them??

Companies like Toyota, Honda and Nissan balanced their developmental costs and research pretty evenly to both their car and truck/SUV platforms so that neither would be left falling behind.

GM on the other hand focused most of their developmental costs on trucks and SUVs since they were the vehicles bringing them in the most cash in the 90's while neglecting their car platforms. Now that gas prices are rising and the vehicles that brought them the most money in years past are falling out of favor, they're are trying to turn the ship around (in this case, a massive oil tanker) to scamble and rebuild their car lineup. They also got caught with their pants down in the crossover/sportwagon sector which has been booming lately. They've had to cancel car programs and refresh old platforms (instead of developing new ones) to have enough money to ensure that their truck platform doesn't flop.

Bottom line. GM relied too heavily on trucks/SUVs to pull them through the 90's. Now that preferences are switching from mammoth SUVs to crossovers and and cars, GM is left in a bind.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: MisterCornell

It's GM's best selling platform. They sell, what, a million plus GMT 800 vehicles a year? That might be as many vehicles as Honda's or Nissan's entire lineup put together. Of course improving the quality of their trucks (which are outdated and have to be incentivized) will be integral to any turn around plan.

Then why did you question the comment that GM was betting their future on them? They cancelled their large RWD car platform to channel more money to their light truck platform. Their mainstream car platforms have largely languished over the years as they basked in the glow of SUV profits. So where does that leave them??

Companies like Toyota, Honda and Nissan balanced their developmental costs and research pretty evenly to both their car and truck/SUV platforms so that neither would be left falling behind.

GM on the other hand focused most of their developmental costs on trucks and SUVs since they were the vehicles bringing them in the most cash in the 90's while neglecting their car platforms. Now that gas prices are rising and the vehicles that brought them the most money in years past are falling out of favor, they're are trying to turn the ship around (in this case, a massive oil tanker) to scamble and rebuild their car lineup. They also got caught with their pants down in the crossover/sportwagon sector which has been booming lately. They've had to cancel car programs and refresh old platforms (instead of developing new ones) to have enough money to ensure that their truck platform doesn't flop.

Bottom line. GM relied too heavily on trucks/SUVs to pull them through the 90's. Now that preferences are switching from mammoth SUVs to crossovers and and cars, GM is left in a bind.

heh, Saab has a hit with the 9-3 SportCombi. to bad Saab is so insignificant in sales it isnt funny.

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: MichaelD
Fact of the matter is that the world needs trucks; moving a 3-ton+ vehicle with any gusto, while allowing it to tow another 2-5 tons just can't be done ATM w/anything but a petroleum burning vehicle, be it diesel or gasoline powered.

I have no problem with having the right tools for the job. If your application requires hauling 3 tons of whatever, good, buy a truck. If your application is hauling your whining brats to the mall, then you need a minivan or a sedan, both of which can and should be hybrids.

That's the problem I have... people buying 2 ton trucks that get 10mpg when they could buy a sedan with no problem beyond a loss of thier "status".

OK, I agree with you about...75% of the way there. I have a big, gas-guzzling SUV (not happy about the "guzzling part") and I have no family that lives with me. Nor do I haul/tow every day.

BUT, I do have hobbies that require me to haul sheets of plywood, big boxes of parts, etc. Aside from that, I LIKE my truck. I like sitting up higher than the mooing mass of mommy minivan motorers that clog my view and endanger my safety b/c they have no idea that there's ACTUALLY a world OUTSIDE their little mobile family infection transportation device.

Is it testosterone driven that I want to be in physically bigger vehicle? You betcha. Though the gas is KILLING ME right now, I'd not give it up.

 

[MisterCornell]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: MisterCornell

It's GM's best selling platform. They sell, what, a million plus GMT 800 vehicles a year? That might be as many vehicles as Honda's or Nissan's entire lineup put together. Of course improving the quality of their trucks (which are outdated and have to be incentivized) will be integral to any turn around plan.

Then why did you question the comment that GM was betting their future on them? They cancelled their large RWD car platform to channel more money to their light truck platform. Their mainstream car platforms have largely languished over the years as they basked in the glow of SUV profits. So where does that leave them??

Companies like Toyota, Honda and Nissan balanced their developmental costs and research pretty evenly to both their car and truck/SUV platforms so that neither would be left falling behind.

GM on the other hand focused most of their developmental costs on trucks and SUVs since they were the vehicles bringing them in the most cash in the 90's while neglecting their car platforms. Now that gas prices are rising and the vehicles that brought them the most money in years past are falling out of favor, they're are trying to turn the ship around (in this case, a massive oil tanker) to scamble and rebuild their car lineup. They also got caught with their pants down in the crossover/sportwagon sector which has been booming lately. They've had to cancel car programs and refresh old platforms (instead of developing new ones) to have enough money to ensure that their truck platform doesn't flop.

Bottom line. GM relied too heavily on trucks/SUVs to pull them through the 90's. Now that preferences are switching from mammoth SUVs to crossovers and and cars, GM is left in a bind.

You're pulling crap out of uranus, and it stinks to high heaven. Is there a single fact in what you've stated, or do you just regurgitate pro-Toyota press releases?

First of all, GM has updated almost their entire passenger car lineup in the last few years.

Epsilon for the mid sized cars - Chevrolet Malibu, Pontiac G6, Saab 9-3 (2002-2004)
Buick La Crosse and Pontiac Grand Prix were updated about a year or two ago
Cadillac Deville, Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala and Monte Carlo got replacements this year
Chevrolet Cobalt came out last year, replacing the Cavalier, and the Pontiac Pursuit will be replacing the Pontiac Sunfire
Chevrolet Aveo is about 2 years old, and will be replaced soon.
Pontiac Solstice came out this year
Cadillac STS replaced the Seville last year, and the CTS came in 2002, and will be probably the next GM car slated to be renewed.

My guess is that the Saturn L-Series (replaced next year with Aura) and LeSabre (which will be discontinued soon) and perhaps the Saab 9-5 (being replaced soon) are the only "old" passenger cars being sold by GM.

Keep in mind the industry average is about 7 years for a car model.

GM's full size trucks and SUVs were slated for new models this year and the next year. That's something that was set in stone a long time ago, because you don't develop cars overnight.

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServ...releasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=17843

GM's truck sales are up this year, despite the high gas prices, and all the hot wind from reporters and folks like you talking about how "no one is buying trucks anymore because of the high gas prices". Hell, if GM is increasing their truck sales with such an old, outdated lineup, with such - allegedly - high gasoline prices, then it's no surprise that everyone else is tripping overthemselves to put out new trucks, not just crossovers, but real big trucks. Because that's what the market is buying: light trucks.

GM's car lineup is much improved over the past 5 years, but they've still sold fewer and fewer cars each year, mainly because the market as a whole is demanding less and less cars each year. I think even this year, sales of light trucks are up vs. last year, and cars are down, despite all the "high gas prices", and all the reporters talking about how no one can afford SUVs anymore.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: MisterCornell

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: MisterCornell

It's GM's best selling platform. They sell, what, a million plus GMT 800 vehicles a year? That might be as many vehicles as Honda's or Nissan's entire lineup put together. Of course improving the quality of their trucks (which are outdated and have to be incentivized) will be integral to any turn around plan.

Then why did you question the comment that GM was betting their future on them? They cancelled their large RWD car platform to channel more money to their light truck platform. Their mainstream car platforms have largely languished over the years as they basked in the glow of SUV profits. So where does that leave them??

Companies like Toyota, Honda and Nissan balanced their developmental costs and research pretty evenly to both their car and truck/SUV platforms so that neither would be left falling behind.

GM on the other hand focused most of their developmental costs on trucks and SUVs since they were the vehicles bringing them in the most cash in the 90's while neglecting their car platforms. Now that gas prices are rising and the vehicles that brought them the most money in years past are falling out of favor, they're are trying to turn the ship around (in this case, a massive oil tanker) to scamble and rebuild their car lineup. They also got caught with their pants down in the crossover/sportwagon sector which has been booming lately. They've had to cancel car programs and refresh old platforms (instead of developing new ones) to have enough money to ensure that their truck platform doesn't flop.

Bottom line. GM relied too heavily on trucks/SUVs to pull them through the 90's. Now that preferences are switching from mammoth SUVs to crossovers and and cars, GM is left in a bind.

First of all, GM has updated almost their entire passenger car lineup in the last few years.

Epsilon for the mid sized cars - Chevrolet Malibu, Pontiac G6, Saab 9-3 (2002-2004)
Buick La Crosse and Pontiac Grand Prix were updated about a year or two ago
Cadillac Deville, Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala and Monte Carlo got replacements this year
Chevrolet Cobalt came out last year, replacing the Cavalier, and the Pontiac Pursuit will be replacing the Pontiac Sunfire
Chevrolet Aveo is about 2 years old, and will be replaced soon.
Pontiac Solstice came out this year
Cadillac STS replaced the Seville last year, and the CTS came in 2002, and will be probably the next GM car slated to be renewed.

My guess is that the Saturn L-Series (replaced next year with Aura) and LeSabre (which will be discontinued soon) and perhaps the Saab 9-5 (being replaced soon) are the only "old" passenger cars being sold by GM.

Grand Prix - Inferior in most every way to its Japanese competition. Still based on a platform that dates back a decade.
Cadillac Deville - New front/rear bumper, new interior. Same old sh!t.
Chevy Impala/Monte Carlo - New sheetmetal, new interior. IIRC, uses the same platform as the Grand Prix which dates back to the mid 90's.
Solstice - low volume pet project of Lutz. Has no bearing on the financial stability of GM
9-5 - won't be replaced til the end of the decade. GM just released pics of the new 9-5. Nothing but a front/rear bumper update (have yet to see the interior)

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: MisterCornell

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: MisterCornell

It's GM's best selling platform. They sell, what, a million plus GMT 800 vehicles a year? That might be as many vehicles as Honda's or Nissan's entire lineup put together. Of course improving the quality of their trucks (which are outdated and have to be incentivized) will be integral to any turn around plan.

Then why did you question the comment that GM was betting their future on them? They cancelled their large RWD car platform to channel more money to their light truck platform. Their mainstream car platforms have largely languished over the years as they basked in the glow of SUV profits. So where does that leave them??

Companies like Toyota, Honda and Nissan balanced their developmental costs and research pretty evenly to both their car and truck/SUV platforms so that neither would be left falling behind.

GM on the other hand focused most of their developmental costs on trucks and SUVs since they were the vehicles bringing them in the most cash in the 90's while neglecting their car platforms. Now that gas prices are rising and the vehicles that brought them the most money in years past are falling out of favor, they're are trying to turn the ship around (in this case, a massive oil tanker) to scamble and rebuild their car lineup. They also got caught with their pants down in the crossover/sportwagon sector which has been booming lately. They've had to cancel car programs and refresh old platforms (instead of developing new ones) to have enough money to ensure that their truck platform doesn't flop.

Bottom line. GM relied too heavily on trucks/SUVs to pull them through the 90's. Now that preferences are switching from mammoth SUVs to crossovers and and cars, GM is left in a bind.

First of all, GM has updated almost their entire passenger car lineup in the last few years.

Epsilon for the mid sized cars - Chevrolet Malibu, Pontiac G6, Saab 9-3 (2002-2004)
Buick La Crosse and Pontiac Grand Prix were updated about a year or two ago
Cadillac Deville, Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala and Monte Carlo got replacements this year
Chevrolet Cobalt came out last year, replacing the Cavalier, and the Pontiac Pursuit will be replacing the Pontiac Sunfire
Chevrolet Aveo is about 2 years old, and will be replaced soon.
Pontiac Solstice came out this year
Cadillac STS replaced the Seville last year, and the CTS came in 2002, and will be probably the next GM car slated to be renewed.

My guess is that the Saturn L-Series (replaced next year with Aura) and LeSabre (which will be discontinued soon) and perhaps the Saab 9-5 (being replaced soon) are the only "old" passenger cars being sold by GM.

Grand Prix - Inferior in most every way to its Japanese competition. Still based on a platform that dates back a decade.
Cadillac Deville - New front/rear bumper, new interior. Same old sh!t.
Chevy Impala/Monte Carlo - New sheetmetal, new interior. IIRC, uses the same platform as the Grand Prix which dates back to the mid 90's.
Solstice - low volume pet project of Lutz. Has no bearing on the financial stability of GM
9-5 - won't be replaced til the end of the decade. GM just released pics of the new 9-5. Nothing but a front/rear bumper update (have yet to see the interior)

thye got the same interior basically, but they have the caddy stereo now, and a few other MINOR changes.

interior of loaded out 9-5

but you also have to remember Saab's typical longevity of its platforms.

 

[jpeyton]

I knew those ricer wings were good for something!

 

[NFS4]

Oh, and I love this:

Pontiac Montana
Saturn Relay
Chevy Uplander
Buick Terraza

Wait, did they run out of money? Not to mention all the other clones in the family (Sierra/Silverado/Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade/yadda yadda). They you've got the Bravada/Rainier and the Ascender/Envoy.

GM is badge engineering to the max.

 

[klah]

Originally posted by: MisterCornell
First of all, GM has updated almost their entire passenger car lineup in the last few years.

Buick La Crosse and Pontiac Grand Prix were updated about a year or two ago

Sheetmetal updates on a platform that is 17 years old.

Cadillac Deville, Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala and Monte Carlo got replacements this year.

Impala and Monte Carlo are also just sheetmetal updates and remain on the same 17-year old platform as the LaCrosse and GP.

Chevrolet Cobalt came out last year, replacing the Cavalier, and the Pontiac Pursuit will be replacing the Pontiac Sunfire.

The fact that they sold the J-Body for almost 25 years with crash test ratings you would expect to see only in 3rd world coutries demonstrates how little they cared about this segment and their customers' safety.

 

[MisterCornell]

Originally posted by: klah

Originally posted by: MisterCornell
First of all, GM has updated almost their entire passenger car lineup in the last few years.

Buick La Crosse and Pontiac Grand Prix were updated about a year or two ago

Sheetmetal updates on a platform that is 17 years old.

Cadillac Deville, Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala and Monte Carlo got replacements this year.

Impala and Monte Carlo are also just sheetmetal updates and remain on the same 17-year old platform as the LaCrosse and GP.

Chevrolet Cobalt came out last year, replacing the Cavalier, and the Pontiac Pursuit will be replacing the Pontiac Sunfire.

The fact that they sold the J-Body for almost 25 years with crash test ratings you would expect to see only in 3rd world coutries demonstrates how little they cared about this segment and their customers' safety.

All those cars have brand new interiors as well as updated powertrains. Platforms aren't recreated from scratch each time there is a new model change, although sometimes they can be.

Even GM's new GMT 900 trucks won't be built off all new platforms.

And we're not discussing what GM did in 1992, we're discussing their product changes in the last few years, most of which have been geared toward passenger cars.

Whether you like the cars or not, your assertion that GM's car lineup is unchanged, while all their investment is allegedly going into trucks (which even if they were, who could blame them with truck sales showing continued growth, and the car market contracting?) is patently false.

 

[Kalbi]

wow that is ugly

 

[klah]

Originally posted by: MisterCornell

GM is far less truck dependent than Ford or Chrysler.

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=103108

"In 2002 General Motors generated 90 percent of its profits from SUVs and pickups."
Welch, David, ?The Sun is Setting on ?Truckish? Sport-Utes,? BusinessWeek, Monday, May 5, 2003.

"GM's pretax profit on its full-sized SUVs nearly equaled its overall net income in 2004"

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: MichaelD

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: MisterCornell

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: nourdmrolNMT1

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Go GM.... keep it up with the gas guzzlers!

yup, GM is the only one who makes gas guzzlers.

Obviously they aren't, but they're the only ones betting their future on them.

Where's the proof for this?

GM's lack of hybrids is a good start.

Oh PLEASE. Stop with the Greenie CRAP. While GM IS in financial trouble, the fact they have not come to market w/a hybrid has nothing to do with it.

Hybrids most probably are the way of the future, but for now, the technology just isn't there to make them powerful AND efficient.

Fact of the matter is that the world needs trucks; moving a 3-ton+ vehicle with any gusto, while allowing it to tow another 2-5 tons just can't be done ATM w/anything but a petroleum burning vehicle, be it diesel or gasoline powered.

I don't think you understand what "the world needs trucks" really means.