Next gen is killing multiplayer.

[zerocool84]

What is the point then of allowing companies to release the same game for 360 and XB1 if they aren't leveraging that huge 360 install base for multiplayer? Why get the new console if I can play a version of the same game with MORE people on the 360?


I know you can't answer all that, but this seems obvious stuff to me.

Because it looks and plays better on the newer consoles, higher resolution and higher frames per second, or like in Battlefield 4, you get 64 players on one map on the new consoles instead of just 32 on the old consoles.

 

[BD2003]

just fyi, shadowrun did this exact thing like 7 or so years ago. pc and 360 gamers could play against eachother.

Im aware, and I'm sure we'll see a return of PC/Xbox one cross platform play next year. But that's small potatoes compared to the 4-way console split.

 

[canestim]

There is some truth to this in the US. US was 360 land and now it's splitting up due to price/performance and the DRM/Kinect fiasco. Many like myself will own both but I will not have two online subscriptions.

 

[poofyhairguy]

If they let people play across gen it slows down adoption. There will come a point when enough people have upgraded to next gen that you'll be forced to get on board as well to continue playing with them.

Yes, but won't it slow adoption TO the PS4 until the XB1 can level the playing field a little with install base? Seems like with the XB1 losing so far this round anything MS can do to make getting a PS4 a more painful transition for a former 360 owner they need to do.

Because it looks and plays better on the newer consoles, higher resolution and higher frames per second, or like in Battlefield 4, you get 64 players on one map on the new consoles instead of just 32 on the old consoles.

I get that, but couldn't you have some maps that are mixed console and some that are XB1 only with the extra features? That would be best of both worlds for MS as then people could play their friends with 360s while telling them the whole time "if only you had a XB1 we could play this way cooler map!"

 

[BD2003]

Yes, but won't it slow adoption TO the PS4 until the XB1 can level the playing field a little with install base? Seems like with the XB1 losing so far this round anything MS can do to make getting a PS4 a more painful transition for a former 360 owner they need to do.

Maybe in some cases, but in general it would make it less painful to transition to the ps4. Why buy an Xbox one when you can buy a ps4 but still use your 360 to play with your Xbox friends? I don't think they want to give anyone a reason not to buy an Xbox one.

I get that, but couldn't you have some maps that are mixed console and some that are XB1 only with the extra features? That would be best of both worlds for MS as then people could play their friends with 360s while telling them the whole time "if only you had a XB1 we could play this way cooler map!"

They could absolutely do that, but the pressure of not being able to play together at all is much stronger.

 

[TheSlamma]

Not a single one of my friends is buying this generation so far, the main thing is really just the title selection right now just isn't mature yet, but the bad press for inability to get 1080P 60fps let alone 4K TV prices bombing almost every week isn't helping either

 

[cmdrdredd]

What the heck does 4k TVs have to do with consoles? Even the beefiest PC has a tough time getting playable frame rates at 4k let alone 60fps.

 

[ImpulsE69]

What the heck does 4k TVs have to do with consoles? Even the beefiest PC has a tough time getting playable frame rates at 4k let alone 60fps.

I agree to a point, but PC's will get there...these never will. Honestly that would be the least of the reasons I'd avoid them though. The difficulty doing 1080p in this age is a bit worrisome though.

 

[xantub]

just tell your friends to play on PC and you won't have that problem ever again, plus you'll save hundreds of dollars a year.

 

[MeldarthX]

I'll throw this out as BD has made some decent arguements; but main arguement from devs why Destiny ps3/360 players can't play with ps4/one players.......draw distance; PS4/One's draw distance is so much greater than ps3/360; since there is pvp in the game. Anyone on a ps3/360 would be owned hard by anyone on ps4/one........

That's a great way to keep your game going by alienating and pissing off a large core of your players; thus they walled them.....that tends to be the biggest reason why most games don't have cross platform play. You can argue a lot of reasons; but if you start a cascade that pisses off a large chunk of your players; they will just up and quit and find another game to play or won't buy at all as they know they are at a disavantage already by being on last gen's hardware....

 

[BD2003]

I'll throw this out as BD has made some decent arguements; but main arguement from devs why Destiny ps3/360 players can't play with ps4/one players.......draw distance; PS4/One's draw distance is so much greater than ps3/360; since there is pvp in the game. Anyone on a ps3/360 would be owned hard by anyone on ps4/one........

That's a great way to keep your game going by alienating and pissing off a large core of your players; thus they walled them.....that tends to be the biggest reason why most games don't have cross platform play. You can argue a lot of reasons; but if you start a cascade that pisses off a large chunk of your players; they will just up and quit and find another game to play or won't buy at all as they know they are at a disavantage already by being on last gen's hardware....

Worst case they'd just have to section off competitive multiplayer, or drop the draw distance for next gen players in mixed matches, etc. That's something easy enough to do that it's not a good enough excuse. Besides, that's a temporary problem until last gen fades, but we're still left with the X1/PS4/PC split going forward.

Bungie has lots of excuses anyway, they blamed last gen for not making the next gen versions 60fps as well.

 

[Lil Frier]

just tell your friends to play on PC and you won't have that problem ever again, plus you'll save hundreds of dollars a year.

How is that your logic? You'll have to upgrade the GPU to keep up with high-end titles every 2-3 years, meaning $200-300 to upgrade there. Plus, you're assuming that his friends only like multi-platform titles. What resolution does a high-end PC run Forza or Infamous at?

 

[Topweasel]

So you think the premise is dumb...and then you go on to agree that the downfall in your online multiplayer activity this generation has been the lack of adoption by your peers of the new consoles? :hmm:

More platforms = increased likelihood your friends aren't playing on the same platform than you. Its that simple. You're assuming your friends are getting the xbox one...are you sure thats a safe assumption? Because in my case, it definitely wasn't.

Even if everyone gets the xbox one for the next halo game...what about the next third party game like destiny? Even if everyone owns all the platforms, that doesn't mean everyone wants to buy the game for the same platform. What if half your friends prefer the ps4, the other half prefer the xbox?

The only reason we can't buy a game and play with each other regardless of platforms is solely because that doesn't fit in with the business aspirations of competing companies. No one should be defending that.

No one is debating that you shouldn't be able to play the same game on either console together. But that doesn't make a difference for this gen. You (or your friends) made a decision last gen that you failed to make now. That is literally the only difference between your MP experience last gen and this gen. Nothing else changed, maybe it should have, but it didn't. You and your friends are the ones that changed.

 

[BD2003]

No one is debating that you shouldn't be able to play the same game on either console together. But that doesn't make a difference for this gen. You (or your friends) made a decision last gen that you failed to make now. That is literally the only difference between your MP experience last gen and this gen. Nothing else changed, maybe it should have, but it didn't. You and your friends are the ones that changed.

I can see now from my wording why people keep saying this - I'm not blaming anything on the next generation per se. I'm not saying that MP will be dead on next gen consoles, or that there is anything different that next gen is doing specifically that's harming MP.

All I'm saying that the addition of two new platforms to the mix (without saying anything about them) is dividing people more than ever before, and that's a problem that's going to be around a while.

 

[purbeast0]

I can see now from my wording why people keep saying this - I'm not blaming anything on the next generation per se. I'm not saying that MP will be dead on next gen consoles, or that there is anything different that next gen is doing specifically that's harming MP.

All I'm saying that the addition of two new platforms to the mix (without saying anything about them) is dividing people more than ever before, and that's a problem that's going to be around a while.

not really, because the ps3 and 360 will soon be gone from game development, which will then subtract the total from 2 platforms.

 

[poofyhairguy]

not really, because the ps3 and 360 will soon be gone from game development, which will then subtract the total from 2 platforms.

Maybe in 3+ years. It took forever for the PS2 to die, and this 360/PS3 generation seems to want to hit the prophesied 10 year mark.

 

[Lil Frier]

I think that many are going to start dropping it in 2016. I mean, 2015 is the decade mark for the 360. The Division is skipping the PS3 and 360. Treyarch's 2015 CoD release could be the last for that franchise on the seventh-gen consoles, and Ubisoft already made an Assassin's Creed just for those consoles, telling us that they're trying to push forward with the new consoles.

 

[BD2003]

And that's presuming all that still matters in 3 years is Sony and Microsoft, and I don't believe that will be the case.

 

[Topweasel]

And that's presuming all that still matters in 3 years is Sony and Microsoft, and I don't believe that will be the case.

Why? There hasn't been any whispers of a new player, the big three have already shown their hands, and PC is pretty much where it has been since 2008. The only difference really is that the PS2 to PS3 was a big shift and the OG X was so short lived that people who cared made their transitions faster. But the same thing happens every cycle. New consoles come out after 2 to 3 years sales on games for the older cycle start to dry up. Developers bang heads against wall on limitations of older consoles when porting and eventually pull development for them. Sales of new consoles start increasing even more dramatically. Eventually people have settled on their new gen consoles. The consoles then start getting priced at $200-$300 and sales sky rocket and people forget about the previous gen.

It's the same every cycle. There isn't anything about this cycle that should make this cycle look any different.

 

[BD2003]

Why? There hasn't been any whispers of a new player, the big three have already shown their hands, and PC is pretty much where it has been since 2008. The only difference really is that the PS2 to PS3 was a big shift and the OG X was so short lived that people who cared made their transitions faster. But the same thing happens every cycle. New consoles come out after 2 to 3 years sales on games for the older cycle start to dry up. Developers bang heads against wall on limitations of older consoles when porting and eventually pull development for them. Sales of new consoles start increasing even more dramatically. Eventually people have settled on their new gen consoles. The consoles then start getting priced at $200-$300 and sales sky rocket and people forget about the previous gen.

It's the same every cycle. There isn't anything about this cycle that should make this cycle look any different.

PC is way more of a viable console replacement than ever before, steam big picture and SteamOS may push it further.

Amazon is dabbling more and more in gaming, buying up studios, they even sell a full blown console-style controller for the fireTV. Apple has yet to fully embrace TV gaming but considering that they care enough to develop a low level API for iOS, that's not out of the question.

Sony and MS are also dabbling in streaming, which takes the console completely out of the picture. And nintendo can always surprise us.

Remember, there was a time when nintendo and Sega ruled gaming, and Sony and MS weren't even in the picture. And they're already showing signs of slipping - the biggest games in the world aren't cod and madden....it's league of legends, minecraft and angry birds. Japan apparently doesn't give a damn about consoles anymore, and we might be next. I wouldn't presume things will play out exactly like they did in the past, so much has changed.

 

[cmdrdredd]

PC is way more of a viable console replacement than ever before, steam big picture and SteamOS may push it further.

Amazon is dabbling more and more in gaming, buying up studios, they even sell a full blown console-style controller for the fireTV. Apple has yet to fully embrace TV gaming but considering that they care enough to develop a low level API for iOS, that's not out of the question.

Sony and MS are also dabbling in streaming, which takes the console completely out of the picture. And nintendo can always surprise us.

Remember, there was a time when nintendo and Sega ruled gaming, and Sony and MS weren't even in the picture. And they're already showing signs of slipping - the biggest games in the world aren't cod and madden....it's league of legends, minecraft and angry birds. Japan apparently doesn't give a damn about consoles anymore, and we might be next. I wouldn't presume things will play out exactly like they did in the past, so much has changed.

The games setting sales records aren't even on PC. Money talks. Billion dollar releases on consoles vs what? You think angry birds makes that kind of profit?

 

[BD2003]

The games setting sales records aren't even on PC. Money talks. Billion dollar releases on consoles vs what? You think angry birds makes that kind of profit?

vs. MS buying minecraft for $2.5 billion.
vs Riot games (LoL) pulling in just shy of a billion last year.

The money will follow the players. It used to be that a game didn't make it big until it hit consoles, now the situation is reversed. There hasn't been a new billion dollar franchise driven by consoles in almost a decade. Their relevance to gaming should not be taken for granted.

 

[cmdrdredd]

vs. MS buying minecraft for $2.5 billion.
vs Riot games (LoL) pulling in just shy of a billion last year.

The money will follow the players. It used to be that a game didn't make it big until it hit consoles, now the situation is reversed. There hasn't been a new billion dollar franchise driven by consoles in almost a decade. Their relevance to gaming should not be taken for granted.

Buying a company isn't the same as making a profit on the sales of a game. Rockstar made a billion on GTA 5 in 3 days on PS3 and 360. Halo 4 made 220million in 24hours on 360.

 

[BD2003]

Buying a company isn't the same as making a profit on the sales of a game. Rockstar made a billion on GTA 5 in 3 days on PS3 and 360. Halo 4 made 220million in 24hours on 360.

Sure, but you don't buy something for billions unless you plan to make even more billions.

Anyway I don't want this to devolve into another one of those stupid sales wars, I'm just saying it's very shortsighted to brush off everything but consoles. Things have changed enormously since the 360/PS3 launched.

 

[ImpulsE69]

The games setting sales records aren't even on PC. Money talks. Billion dollar releases on consoles vs what? You think angry birds makes that kind of profit?

You are living in the past, and yes. They aren't making a billion dollars if they are spending 500million to make it. Angry Birds by comparison wipes the floor with AAA returns. (PS not even sure where you got the billion dollar release, but if you are talking about COD, that was proven to be false).

What BD is saying is not at all out of the question in the next few years. I admit, I am not exactly excited by that change, but on the plus side, the PC is actually a VERY good candidate, however I think mobile is where everything is going to go. Why spend 500 million for 5-6 million customers when you can spend less than a million and make much much more.

The problem is companies are greedy and want to control everything. Is there truly a reason to have a Xbox One vs a PS4 when 95% of the games are exactly the same across them and PC (and figure that the money you save on buying them on PC will outweigh any overage costs for a PC). Most companies don't want to tie themselves to one platform anymore because 5-6 million sales is no longer considered successful (and I have to laugh at that).

In the Nintendo/Sega era, multiplatform games actually had completely different dev teams and outcomes. There was a reason to be biased. That hasn't been the case in awhile and has come to a complete waste of time with this gen. it is as outdated a mindset as the 2 party system.

In the end, the argument remains to be seen. People keep citing record breaking numbers, however that is like 1 game a year out of how many AAA titles alone. Most of them come up in the red (according to the publishers). Either someone is lying their ass off, or people aren't buying most games at launch or at full price. As I repeatedly say, the crowd here is skewed considerably and are not the 'norm'.