NEWSFLASH: Quad core beats dual core

[DominionSeraph]

You beat me to it, was going to say exactly that. I could not even imagine running dialup and a single core in this day and age. not to mention you wouldnt be able to play any games that came out in the last 5+ years, especially with a dialup connection.

PC gaming is dead. There's a reason I went with a $35 9600GT over a $136 1GB GTX 460 for my X2 5200+, and have no intention of upgrading the processor. No good game has been made in the last 5+ years.

If you want to game get a console.

 

[Rifter]

PC gaming is dead. There's a reason I went with a $35 9600GT over a $136 1GB GTX 460 for my X2 5200+, and have no intention of upgrading the processor. No good game has been made in the last 5+ years.

If you want to game get a console.

This is just plain wrong, there are alot of good games that have been relesed in the last 5 years. And i do own a PS3 as well. If you want good graphics you need to go PC consols cant compete with PC graphics. And even if you own a console you are still going to need better than dialup for a internet connection if you game online, my last PS3 software update was 200MB+. It would take a day to download that on dialup.

 

[Arkaign]

This is just plain wrong, there are alot of good games that have been relesed in the last 5 years. And i do own a PS3 as well. If you want good graphics you need to go PC consols cant compete with PC graphics. And even if you own a console you are still going to need better than dialup for a internet connection if you game online, my last PS3 software update was 200MB+. It would take a day to download that on dialup.

Yeah, there are kickass games on both console and PC. PC Gaming is *far* from dead. It may not have the super mass market appeal of consoles, but it's still a powerhouse segment, and a lot of titles are either exclusive to PC, or just plain much better on PC (FPS, RPG, RTS). The same is true on console, with lots of exclusive sports, racing, party type games.

 

[toyota]

PC gaming is dead. There's a reason I went with a $35 9600GT over a $136 1GB GTX 460 for my X2 5200+, and have no intention of upgrading the processor. No good game has been made in the last 5+ years.

If you want to game get a console.

so single cores are okay. dial up is fine. pc gaming is dead. no good games have been made in 5 years. any other nuggets of wisdom for us?

 

[IntelUser2000]

The Fudzilla article isn't all that idiotic. They often quote claims by Intel. Looking at Sysmark 2007 and Cinebench R10 results of the Core i5 650, it seems Anandtech's Sandy Bridge preview will be pretty close to what the final chip performs.

It's good to note that in Cinebench, the benefit of "Turbo 2.0" is mere 1-2%. Despite all the claims that the lack of Turbo Mode hindered the Sandy Bridge chip on Anandtech's preview, its quite unlikely it will change things with the release.

 

[Zap]

so single cores are okay. dial up is fine. pc gaming is dead. no good games have been made in 5 years. any other nuggets of wisdom for us?

The sky is falling. 2012. I saw it in a movie somewhere.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Yeah, there are kickass games on both console and PC. PC Gaming is *far* from dead. It may not have the super mass market appeal of consoles, but it's still a powerhouse segment, and a lot of titles are either exclusive to PC, or just plain much better on PC (FPS, RPG, RTS). The same is true on console, with lots of exclusive sports, racing, party type games.

From the last 5 years:

Name a twitch FPS substantially better than UT/UT2004
Name a story-based one better than HL/HL2
Name a FPS/RPG better than Deus Ex or System Shock 2.
Team substantially better than Counter-strike: Source.

Name a RPG better than Baldur's Gate 2.
MMORPG better than WoW.
Dungeon crawler better than Diablo 2.

Multiplayer RTS better than Starcraft or Warcraft III
Single player RTS better than Homeworld.

Turn-based better than Heroes of Might and Magic III, XCOM UFO Defense, or Master of Orion 2.

Name anything that compares to Myst.

So tell me again what I need a quad-core for?

The only reason to play a new game is because the old games have been played out, not because the new games are better. It's placeholder entertainment, not riveting entertainment.
You can get placeholders from consoles.

In the Golden Age of PC gaming CPU/GPU upgrades meant something. Being 1 year behind would kill you. Now a 4 year old dual-core and Geforce 8800 derivative will cover 99.9% of what's worth playing.

 

[toyota]

DominionSeraph, the world doesn't revolve around your opinions and needs. if you dont need a quad core or even a computer for that matter then great.

 

[Massive79]

I'm starting to think that threading processor is not the best way to accelerate the speed of your system. I haven't see comparison of the quad core on i5 with quad core on i7 (HT off) comparison though.
But through CPU usage graphic when running hyperPI, I barely see all 8 thread run EXACTLY the same as the other, unlike when I have the Q6600, all 4 core run exactly the same.

And I think its still small numbers of software that really utilize all 8 thread of i7

 

[DominionSeraph]

DominionSeraph, the world doesn't revolve around your opinions and needs. if you dont need a quad core or even a computer for that matter then great.

Follow the thread of responses. You agreeing with me is not disagreement.

 

[nenforcer]

Follow the thread of responses. You agreeing with me is not disagreement.

Can somebody tell me a physics accelerated game better than the software based heavily modified Havok engine of Half Life 2 which came out in 2004 before hardware physics accelerators were even available?

 

[IntelUser2000]

I haven't see comparison of the quad core on i5 with quad core on i7 (HT off) comparison though.

Why would a i7 with Hyperthreading disabled be any different than i5 that come factory disabled with Hyperthreading? Same amount of cores, same platform, same bandwidth, same architecture.

Can somebody tell me a physics accelerated game better than the software based heavily modified Havok engine of Half Life 2 which came out in 2004 before hardware physics accelerators were even available?

This just reinforces my belief that game development is a balance that consists of Performance/Graphics/Gameplay, and anything that's really exceptional in any one factor is underwhelming in other two factors.

 

[Tsavo]

Can somebody tell me a physics accelerated game better than the software based heavily modified Havok engine of Half Life 2 which came out in 2004 before hardware physics accelerators were even available?

Dew Knookem 2003 had all that and more.

Much more.

:whiste:

 

[Davidh373]

DominionSeraph seems to like trolling a lot these days. I'm just going to ignore her (sorry if you're a guy) decisions and misconceptions. I mean, her first response was a 4 year old criticism of a game that ran smooth 3 years ago. Not to mention in every other thread, all I read are really short answers, and her complaining about dial up. She uses it as an excuse for not posting proper links, or not taking the time to browse better prices.

Name a twitch FPS substantially better than UT/UT2004
Name a story-based one better than HL/HL2
Name a FPS/RPG better than Deus Ex or System Shock 2.
Team substantially better than Counter-strike: Source.

I'm going to ignore all the "FPS" tags though, assuming PC gaming revolves around FPS's is another common misconception.

1.Easy, CoD4, Rainbow Six (series), Counter-Strike: Source, Left 4 Dead 2.
2. Easy, there are multiple, ACI, ACII, Prince of Persia Forgotten Sands, Dead Space, Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Batman: Arkham Asylum.
3. Couldn't tell you, I hate RPGs with exception to Oblivion, ME (1 and 2), and Fallout 3.
4. Team Fortress 2, Rainbow Six Vegas 2, Left 4 Dead 2, Battlefield 2, Battlefield: Bad Company 2.

If you don't feel the same that I do, fine. I don't really care, but I'm getting tired of the short, rude, and sarcastic questions and answers you give. If you're going to troll, go back to 4chan. They love it there.

FYI everyone

Example of Dom using an excuse EDIT: *Dom using DIAL UP as an excuse

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2129788

-Just a few days ago DS gave advice for someone to get a CrossfireX 5870

-She also gave advice for someone looking for a 3D rig to get a 32 core Opteron rig with no room for Graphics, RAM, Case, SSD, or HDD. The OP had a build listed (which we could generalize a budget from) but she went far beyond that with replies telling the OP to get 2GB x 16 RAM.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2128542

-Also, Dom told me to get an i5 760 over waiting for a Sandy Bridge i5 2400 because it was overclockable, but I had specifically stated I did not want to OC anything.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2128824

Sorry Dom, but you saying what's above and then saying what is in this thread is just ridiculous... You give great advice sometimes, but 75% of the time your advice seems very rushed and not thought through well...

 

[Massive79]

Why would a i7 with Hyperthreading disabled be any different than i5 that come factory disabled with Hyperthreading? Same amount of cores, same platform, same bandwidth, same architecture.

I first noted that, today, rarely a software or games that really utilize all 8 threads of i7, so, if we take a side HT on i7, that would make i7 is an i5 (i7 HT off = i5 + added cache). That'd would makes the i7 potential is never really used on software. So why should we buy an i7 today beside of benchmarking.

I own i7 on socket 1366 now, I notice there's no game and software I used today use all of the threads that my i7 provide, and that make me wonder why I buy my i7 beside of my wants of having the newest system platform

 

[IntelUser2000]

I first noted that, today, rarely a software or games that really utilize all 8 threads of i7, so, if we take a side HT on i7, that would make i7 is an i5 (i7 HT off = i5 + added cache). That'd would makes the i7 potential is never really used on software. So why should we buy an i7 today beside of benchmarking.

I own i7 on socket 1366 now, I notice there's no game and software I used today use all of the threads that my i7 provide, and that make me wonder why I buy my i7 beside of my wants of having the newest system platform

I'm confused, which i5 are you talking about again? The 4 core Core i5 has the same 8MB L3 as the 4 core i7's with Hyperthreading. If you are talking about the 2 core 4 thread Core i5, yes there's less cache but physically there are less cores so its not a good comparison.

You would have been better off with the Sandy Bridge chip coming in Jan. You won't need 8 cores, nor you'll need 3-4 channels of memory. Even if the performance gain is only 5%, that 5% is something you can use because that'll be a single thread gain.

Not sure what Sandy Bridge quad core is giving us other than "32nm" and "better graphics"?

Single thread IPC gain, which Nehalem didn't really offer over Core 2.

 

[dorion]

I'm confused, which i5 are you talking about again? The 4 core Core i5 has the same 8MB L3 as the 4 core i7's with Hyperthreading. If you are talking about the 2 core 4 thread Core i5, yes there's less cache but physically there are less cores so its not a good comparison.

You would have been better off with the Sandy Bridge chip coming in Jan. You won't need 8 cores, nor you'll need 3-4 channels of memory. Even if the performance gain is only 5%, that 5% is something you can use because that'll be a single thread gain.



Single thread IPC gain, which Nehalem didn't really offer over Core 2.

Bogus

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/50?vs=191

 

[IntelUser2000]

Bogus

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/50?vs=191

Everyone forgets Turbo Mode. The i5 760 runs at 3.33GHz when only 1 core is running. That doesn't mean per thread IPC has increased, it just means 1 thread app runs faster. The per thread IPC gain is 0-5% brought on by memory bandwidth intensive apps and multimedia enhancements.

 

[biostud]

From the last 5 years:

Name a twitch FPS substantially better than UT/UT2004
Name a story-based one better than HL/HL2
Name a FPS/RPG better than Deus Ex or System Shock 2.
Team substantially better than Counter-strike: Source.

Name a RPG better than Baldur's Gate 2.
MMORPG better than WoW.
Dungeon crawler better than Diablo 2.

Multiplayer RTS better than Starcraft or Warcraft III
Single player RTS better than Homeworld.

Turn-based better than Heroes of Might and Magic III, XCOM UFO Defense, or Master of Orion 2.

Name anything that compares to Myst.

So tell me again what I need a quad-core for?

so, have there been any better games for consoles in these genres?

 

[Amart]

I believe the truth is in the middle - for a gaming/home machine with1920x1200 resolution, Dual Core is still fine (3.0Ghz Core2Duo or 3.5+Ghz AMD equivalent).

Outlining a budget PC Gaming rig, I would still recommend saving money and getting a highly overclockable Core2Duo for ~$70, and spending the most on the Graphics Card.

Having said that...

"Name a twitch FPS substantially better than UT/UT2004"

- QuakeLive / WarSaw - trick question, twitch-FPS genre is a highly conservative eSport, with games designed for maximum visibility and minimum hardware requirements.

"Name a story-based one better than HL/HL2"
- HL2 with the High-Rez Textures Mod (consoles wouldn't handle it even if that was availiable)
- STALKER Complete 2009 (2012) - one of the best examples of how much a mod can improve a game in every way.

Name a FPS/RPG better than Deus Ex or System Shock 2.
- Mass Effect 1 & 2, best played on the PC due to mouse-aim, faster loading, more complete patches, and the ability to skip bad gameplay elements (hex editing to avoid the resource grind).
- Fallout 3 Wanderer's Edition + Mart's Mutant Mod
- You should have listed System Shock 1, it is superior to the sequel.
- Mount and Blade

"Team substantially better than Counter-strike: Source."
- Team Fortress 2
- GuildWars GvG (circa Prophesies/Factions, World Championships)
- Bloodline Champions
- Monday Night Combat (just released into Beta on Steam) Mouse + Keyboard > Controller, in this case.
- Battlefield Bad Company 2

"Name a RPG better than Baldur's Gate 2."
- BG2 was a well written adventure, but in my opinion it's high rating is based on the genre's overall mediocrity.
- Neverwinter Nights series was a close equivalent.
- I would have listed Darklands because it captured the spirit of playing a role much better then more modern "RPG"s.

"MMORPG better than WoW."
- MMORPG's are generally mediocre, but I would list Ultima Online or EVE instead. Yet another trick question as lagging behind on hardware requirements is one key component of any MMORPG success.

"Dungeon crawler better than Diablo 2."
- Diablo 3 when it's released
- Torchlight

"Multiplayer RTS better than Starcraft"
- WC3 was trash, and this is yet another trick question / setup because RTS is a 2D genre, and whether something is better or worse has little to do with graphics.
- Starcraft 2 is amazing because it approaches the greatness of the original while being much more accessible in terms of APM and learning tools.

"Single player RTS better than Homeworld."
- Starcraft 2's Terran Campaign, and Homeworld isn't even a good example when you could have listed Shogun: Total War.
- Total War Realism Mods - improved and more fun versions of every release are availiable and being developed, PC Mod exclusive.

"Turn-based better than Heroes of Might and Magic III, XCOM UFO Defense, or Master of Orion 2."
- Sins of a Solar Empire, Galactic Civilizations, and why is this even mentioned, 4x games are very rarely hardware intensive.

"Name anything that compares to Myst."
- Baudolino by Umberto Eco (you said "anything").

"So tell me again what I need a quad-core for?"
- Home Workstation for 3D Rendering, CAD, Video Editing, Super-High Resolution Gaming w/ Multi-Display Surround, and possibly for better Game Recording performance.


"The only reason to play a new game is because the old games have been played out, not because the new games are better. It's placeholder entertainment, not riveting entertainment."

Generalization based on what I suspect is limited experience, in addition to the general difference of opinion.

"You can get placeholders from consoles." - and you can get superior versions on the PC, playing with the Mouse+Keyboard, Joystick or Controller, with better patches and mods. Mods often turn bad games into great ones - Fallout 3 is a great example - I didn't bother with the game before Fallout Wanderer's Edition 6.0 was released, including all the DLC's. I'm probably going to wait for the New Vegas equivalent.

In the Golden Age of PC gaming CPU/GPU upgrades meant something. Being 1 year behind would kill you. Now a 4 year old dual-core and Geforce 8800 derivative will cover 99.9% of what's worth playing.

I agree about the CPU, but your GPU will mean using 4-year old resolutions and graphic settings in many cases. I upgraded from a 8800GTS to a Radeon 4850 and then to an 460 GTX OC and have seen significant image quality / performance gains in each case, increasing my resolution to 1920x1200 on a 24" Monitor.

I think the Golden Age of PC gaming continues because the upgrade rush was both a blessing and a curse - as we reach the photo-realism plateau in graphics, developers can finally start focusing on more important aspects like innovations in gameplay (ex: destructible environments). The lower hardware prices for such quality is a very good thing for PC Gaming.

Congratulations.

 

[God Mode]

Buy the fastest you can reasonably afford. Don't give anecdotal stories and put down others with a bigger budget or those with less. I swear its like soccer moms defending that their kid is the best. No one cares if a dual core is what suits you best. Anandtech is primarily a computer forum and I come here to read and learn about new and interesting hardware and software.

 

[VirtualLarry]

No-one should be buying a dual-core these days. Not for gaming, not for web browsing, not for anything. Unless they are so poor that they cannot afford food.

Although if they already have a Core2-class machine, overclocking the CPU helps a great deal. If you have a 3.5Ghz or above dual-core, then you are probably good to go for gaming, as long as the game is two years old or older.

 

[Markfw]

No-one should be buying a dual-core these days. Not for gaming, not for web browsing, not for anything. Unless they are so poor that they cannot afford food.

Although if they already have a Core2-class machine, overclocking the CPU helps a great deal. If you have a 3.5Ghz or above dual-core, then you are probably good to go for gaming, as long as the game is two years old or older.

This actually makes a lot of sense. When you can get a quad core for $84, and the cheapest dual-core is $54, for $30, it just makes sense to get the quad.

 

[AtenRa]

For a budget gaming PC, a Core i3 OC to 3.6GHz and above pared with a $200+ VGA will be fine for all today games at 1680/1920.


http://forum.oktabit.gr/content/intel-core-i3-540-review#comment-49550

 

[DNorth]

This is just plain wrong, there are alot of good games that have been relesed in the last 5 years. And i do own a PS3 as well. If you want good graphics you need to go PC consols cant compete with PC graphics. And even if you own a console you are still going to need better than dialup for a internet connection if you game online, my last PS3 software update was 200MB+. It would take a day to download that on dialup.

Tell that to the 225,000 people currently logged on to wow ( no i dont play it )

Or the 60,000 people plying eve online this very second.

Between the top 3 MMO's on the market ( all pc platform ) there are over 10milliion active subscriptions. Generating over 80million GBP a month. Thats not including the initial purchase profit... Thats just the top 3 MMO's on the PC platform...

There are probably over 100 by now.

PC Gaming is not going anywhere.

Just my opinion.