Newcomer - Need Help With HTPC

[Steve3596]

Let me begin with a little description of myself. I would say I am way above average when it comes to computers than the average American, but I am the quintessential noob when it comes to creating my own PC. Id like a system that still has lots of room for upgrades as right now I am constrained to a budget of 1000$ but a year or so from now I should have a decent amount to spend on upgrades.

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
Primarily for playing/encoding/ripping movies HD movies. A HTPC system with good sound and excellent video.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread
$800-1000

3. What country will you be purchasing your hardware from?
USA

4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc, etc, etc, you get the picture.
Not a fanboy of anything

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.
I have a 1 tb external and a 500 gb external, and a 50 inch 1080p samsung 5series DLP tv as a monotor

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.
Have done some research for the last couple of weeks, mainly on this website, still unsure.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.
Would assume default speeds, not sure if overclocking would be good, if possible would like some help with

8. WHEN do you plan to build it?
Within the next 2 months, preferable ASAP

 

[GuitarDaddy]

You should be able to build a nice rig for your purposes well within that budget. For an HTPC you don't need great CPU or graphics power (not like a gaming rig). A good dual core CPU and even onboard graphics are good enough for 1080, although with your budget I would reccomend a low-mid add-on GPU like an 8600gt and a low end quad (Q9300/Q9400) for the added encoding abilities.

P45 mobo
Q9400
2x2gb ddr2-800
640bg WD HDD's
Quality 380-550w power supply

For an HTPC focus on low noise components (PS,GPU,case) fanless where possible, and be willing to pay a little more for a nice HTPC case. I have built a couple using the Antec NSK series HTPC case that comes with an earthwatts 380w and it is a nice quiet inexpensive case if your budget is tight.

Overclocking will do nothing for you HTPC wize, but it would help considerable when encoding video. Since the Intel quads are extremely easy to O/C safely, I would keep a stored bios setting of 8x400=3.2ghz on stock volts for when I was going to encode, and run it stock speeds with speed step enable when doing HTPC duty.

As far as sound goes get a decent soundcard, onboard sound is better than it used to be but still not up to par for Home theatre use. Although soundcard and good speakers would be a good upgrade option, as I beleive for a good HTPC system your soundcard/speakers should approx. equal your HTPC box in value, but then I'm and audio freak

 

[Slugbait]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
I would reccomend a low-mid add-on GPU like an 8600gt...

Please keep in mind that many 8600GT cards will not do HDCP 1080p (Blu-Ray or HD-DVD) while some will...you need to do your homework on this one. However, every 8600GTS card *will* do 1080p with HDCP discs.

The WD 640 Blue is nice, but I would recommend the Spinpoint F1 1TB...for another $25, a bit better performance, and a lot more space for recorded shows (one hour of standard def at "best" settings + tweaks is about 3.5 gigs).

My MCE 2K5 machine has been running very well for over two years, 24/7, with 512 megs of RAM...you won't need more than 2 gigs for Vista MCE. Plus, I'm using a Northwood 3.0Ghz proc.

I have a Bad Axe II on my primary machine, and am surprised at how well a TOSLink feed is automatically detected as either 5.1 or Pro-Logic by my Z-680. The onboard SigmaTel HD audio is quite nice. I almost bought an X-Fi for this machine...so glad I didn't spend the money. So look for a mobo with a decent onboard audio.

There are some boards that do good HTPC video, some others on the forum should have decent suggestions.

 

[Denithor]

AMD HTPC build.

But I would go with the Phenom II 920 instead of the triple-core they have listed. Much much better performance. Just make sure you get a motherboard compatible with these new chips. Or wait a few weeks until the AM3 motherboards launch (probably the best option).

Intel HTPC build.

Here I would go with the Q9400 or Q9550 which will help a lot with your HD encoding work.

 

[Steve3596]

thanks guys, you have been a lot of help, I was thinking of using that setup from the HTPC buying guide, but with a little more cash at my disposal than their targeted price adding the phenom II 920 made sense. Only thing is I am not exactly up to snuff when it comes to choosing a mother board. Any recommendations would be appreciated

 

[krnmastersgt]

I'd follow Denithor's suggestions with the Anandtech-made HTPC builds. If not, I could probably whip one together pretty quickly. Just as a side question to more experienced people, would the igp boards with the Geforce 7/8/9/ 740G pose any problems (assuming it supports the cpu the OP wants) with the encoding/decoding? They all do output for high def and since the IGP's have no fans or extra power connectors, you get low power draws and no noise from there. Just a thought.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Steve3596
thanks guys, you have been a lot of help, I was thinking of using that setup from the HTPC buying guide, but with a little more cash at my disposal than their targeted price adding the phenom II 920 made sense. Only thing is I am not exactly up to snuff when it comes to choosing a mother board. Any recommendations would be appreciated

That kinda depends ...

mATX or ATX ?

You don't specify your connection(s) for your external storage. USB? eSATA? Both?

Here's the ASUS M3A78 Pro AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI ATX for $100 that will work with the following case (the mobo doesn't have eSATA like a bunch of AMD 780G boards ...)

SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum / Steel LC13B-E ATX Media Center / HTPC Case: $115
(it's 'deep' - but looks sharp with other components)

Here are a few necessities ....

LG Black 6X Blu-ray: $110

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066: $55
(should be a $5 off promo code out there)

Western Digital 320GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache: $50
(should be cool and quiet)

I'm pretty much impressed with today's onboard sound processing - most folks simply pass the analog/digital sound to a receiver, anyway. The Asus mobo has enough expansion if you feel otherwise (and enough room for a few tuner cards if you ever head in that direction).

I'm also pretty much an HTPC 'purist' (run cool and quiet) so I would tend toward a 45w X2 4850e, do my transcoding on a separate rig and store the content on a media server (where it can be streamed anywhere on your network). With the 4850e you are looking at 45w system idle and 75w during Blu-ray playback.

The Phenom 920 seems to be a nice chip (with good low power function) but my first choice for a quad in an HTPC would probably be the 65w AMD Phenom 9350e. Not a high flyer by any means but stout enough to get some serious work done if called upon ...

Probably best to consider a $90 investment in PowerDVD Ultra. No muss-no fuss and plays well with any hardware ...

 

[Denithor]

Picking a motherboard for these processors will be kind of tricky, at least for the next few weeks, until the vendors begin labeling with which support PII chips.

If you read the AT review of the new chips, they say that a new AM3 motherboard & revision of the chip is just around the corner. So it might be worth a short wait to get the full potential of your new processor.

 

[Steve3596]

Ill be a little bit more specific

First off this setup will run through my Onkyo TXSR606 Reciever with 7.1 Polk Speaker setup. The external hard drives I have are both Western Digital USB2.0, and do not support eSATA (current laptop does not support eSATA drives)

Id prefer a case that looks like audio equipment but would sacrifice looks for sound anyday.

Again, I am not up to snuff with a lot of the technilogical terms, Im more of a audio/video guy then a computer guy, but if I were to get the Phenom II 920 then must I get ddr3 RAM? Although I would like to set it up so I could have a seperate rig for encoding and storage for a media server, that is out of my price range for now so I need this system to take on the bulk of my need, my only other computer is a 4 year old Dell Inspiron laptop, not exactly examplary for running anything.

Again, thanks guys for your help, hopefully as I learn more I can help you guys on some things.

 

[Denithor]

Here you go:

Phenom II 920 + MSI DKA790GX combo $390 - $35IR - $20MIR = $335

Great board with SPDIF to transfer sound to your receiver.

Then just buy some DDR2 (4GB if on XP32, 8GB for Vista64) and you're gtg.

BTW, I would avoid the 8MB cache HDD booboo pointed out. Go for one of the Western Digital Caviar Black drives with 32MB cache for much better performance. And a five year warranty. Nuff said.

 

[Steve3596]

Alright, so heres where Im at, please tell me if you see any incompatibilities or if theres something I should change

Processor
AMD phenom II 920

Motherboard
MSI DKA790GX Platinum AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail =

Combo Deal = $334.99

Memory
G.SKILL 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Quad Kit Desktop Memory - Retail = 99.99

Hard Drive
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM = $120.00

Optical Drive
LG Black 6X Blu-ray DVD-ROM = $110

Case
Silverstone LC13B-E Media Center = $95.99

Power Supply
PC Power & Cooling Silencer PPCS500 500W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retai = $50

Operation System
Windows Vista Home Premium OEM = $99

Keyboard + Mouse
Logitech Cordless Desktop EX100 USB RF Wireless Keyboard and Optical Mouse = $25

that puts me at a total of 933 dollars. Only thing im still not sure of, I wanted to integrate bluetooth into the PC, ive got a Wireless N router at home and was hoping that I could integrate my phone with the PC, with a few extra bucks avalible I was wondering if this would be possible and how would I go about doing so. Again thanks guys.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Overpaying a bit on the ram, no? If you combine the $25 Corsair 4gb set with the $22 OCZ 4gb set, you could save a net of $52, just need to deal with 2 rebates as opposed to 1.

 

[Steve3596]

Asus just announced their new line of AM3 motherboards, I was thinking of using one of these to go with the Phenom II processor, any recommendations of which one to use, and if anyone has been able to find what the price of these will be, that would be great.

AM3 CPU

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Looks good, the only changes I would make

I would drop to 4gb of ram, 8gb really won't add anything to the experience at this time and you can always add more later if you find if necessary, and 4 sticks will limit overclocking headroom.

I would change PS, PC P&C silencers are excellent quality PS's but despite the name they aren't known for being very quiet, and since your using the 790 onboard graphics a 500w PS is a bit overkill. I would look at fanless and ultra quiet PS's from Nexus, Coolmax, Silverstone, or Antec in the 350-450w range. They will cost you more but silence is golden when it comes to HTPC's

Motherboard is a matter of preference, I've always prefered Asus for there excellent bios support and driver updates, and overall customer support

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Steve3596
Asus just announced their new line of AM3 motherboards, I was thinking of using one of these to go with the Phenom II processor, any recommendations of which one to use, and if anyone has been able to find what the price of these will be, that would be great.

AM3 CPU

Probably still a little early for AM3 and DDR3 from a cost standpoint. But the M4A78-E (sb750) or M4A78 PRO might be worthy of serious consideration as would an AM3 CPU (They will have both DDR2 and DDR3 integrated memory controllers making a future move to a new mobo with DDR3 much easier). AM3 CPUs are supposed to roll out soon and most likely be a little more pricey than the Phenom 920.

I hope the rest of this makes sense - I'll try not to confuse you any more than I confuse myself

Denithor is a smart guy - you should listen to him - but check out Tech Report on the DKA790GX. I like MSI (I'm on one right now - lol) but if you are moving up to AMD 790gx/sb750 you should probably go with either Asus or Gigabyte.

MSI (for reasons probably only known to them) went with Realtek ALC888 over ALC889A.

The significance in this is something called the PAP, or "Protected Audio Pathway". ALC888 ain't got it - ALC889A does - and the PAP is necessary for HD audio streams. (Side note: The Asus ALC1200 is a proprietary deal with Realtek and is a newer version of ALC889A).

Got that? You will be tested later

With the AMD 790gx/sb750-Phenom 920 combo you will have some serious mojo and you will be the envy of many of us here - lol. It begs to be clocked to 3.4GHz+ without much effort (and hopefully 3.2GHz or so without even touching the cpu voltage).

So. Movin' on ... 8Gb is probably not necessary - save $50 here. You don't really need it for your transcoding and *4* sticks creates a hurdle for you. DDR2 1066 is supported by current AM2+ CPUs for only one DIMM per channel. If you place 4 sticks it will be 'downclocked' to 800MHz from 1066MHz (Qualifier: I don't know if this is the case with the IMC, or 'Integrated Memory Controller', of the new Phenom 920).

Here's the deal with your hard drive(s). For your transcoding with your hardware you will want to set up like this:

HD #1 'Drive C': Operating System and Applications
HD #2: Video Capture
HD #3: Video Transcodes/Storage (and HDs #4, #5, #6 - LOL)

Rip everything to Drive #2 - Transcode to Drive #3 (and make this your storage drive). You don't want to be reading, writing and ripping (and transcoding) on the same drive.

Use your 500Gb drive as 'Capture' and your 1Tb (and subsequent) drive(s) as storage. If you want some serious mojo (and our envy) buy a G.SKILL 64GB 2.5" 64GB SATA II Internal Solid state disk for your OS/Apps drive.

I like spending other people money - - and don't forget PowerDVD Ultra.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Here's the deal with your hard drive(s). For your transcoding with your hardware you will want to set up like this:

HD #1 'Drive C': Operating System and Applications
HD #2: Video Capture
HD #3: Video Transcodes/Storage (and HDs #4, #5, #6 - LOL)

Rip everything to Drive #2 - Transcode to Drive #3 (and make this your storage drive). You don't want to be reading, writing and ripping (and transcoding) on the same drive.

:thumbsup:

More HDD's is always better than 1 large one

And an SSD for OS/Apps is very sexy

 

[Steve3596]

I thought many SSD's suffer from stuttering during simultaneous read/writes. wouldn't this make it not a good OS drive. especially with the price being higher than a 1tb WD? Also, dont know if it is possible, but is there anyway to reconfigure my 2 externals to be internal? I dont know if its possible that if I take them out of the caseing is it feasible that maybe there is a SATA port on the hard drive itself? Dont want to go opening the case and ruinging my warranty for no good reason. The make of the 1TB is a Western Digital Elements and the 500GB is a Western Digital My Book Essential

I also have a 60 gb 2.5" hard drive thats not in any use from my ps3 that I replaced with a 320gb drive, having never worked inside a computer how hard is it to rig a 2.5" drive in a 3.5" bay? Do I need a special set up for it?

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Yes some of the earlier SSD's have that problem, but I understand the newer ones don't so you just have to do your homework, but an SSD certainly isn't required.

As far as your NAS drives, they will either be SATA or IDE, probably IDE. In either case they should be connectable to your motherboad. The problem will likely be the form factor, most NAS drives are 2.5" laptop drives so you will need an adapter to mount them in a 3.5" drive bay

Adapter

And your 1TB NAS has 2 500gb drives in it, and the 500gb NAS may be 2 drives also depending on when it was made,

 

[heyheybooboo]

You most likely could attach the 2.5" drive on on side of a 3.5" bay with two screws - or use the brackets as GD suggested.

The issue you are referring to with the SSDs (AFAIK) is related to small block-size writes and I would suggest would be secondary to your overall boot speed and the quickness of your program launch(es). Not necessarily an 'instant-on' TV but certainly much quicker than a conventional boot from a mechanical hard drive.

The intent is to install you OS and Apps and not write to the drive. Remove 'My Documents' from the desktop and establish your data directories on your other hard drives. Configure your programs to save data to them instead of the 'My Documents' folder (which is on the 'C' drive).

You may place a shortcut on your desktop to your important info and directories (I call mine 'Hot Files') on the primary data drive ...

And, yes - you can remove your external drives and use them internally (in 99.9% of cases). There are also brackets you may purchase to allow the use of a typical 3.5" hard drive in a 5.25" (DVD/CD) bay.

We used to get those brackets for free in retail hard drive packages - lol - but now folks make $$$ off of them!

 

[Steve3596]

well, Ive done some thinking, and although I really like the Idea of a SSD as an operating system, I just dont think I can afford it right now. Definetly an upgrade I would look forward to doing, maybe when Windows 7 comes out in the summer Ill get a SSD, but for now heres where Im at with the setup. Going to try and cut some corners where I can to knock down the price, im unfamilir with Vista and think ill just stick with my XP disk so I dont have to spend money on it, and just buy Windows 7 this summer.

Processor
AMD phenom II 920

Hard Drive
Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

Combo deal Processor and Hard Drive = 289.99

Motherboard
ASUS M3A78-T AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail = 150.00

Memory
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK - Retail = 54.99

Optical Drive
LG Black 6X Blu-ray DVD-ROM = $110

Case
Silverstone LC13B-E Media Center = $95.99

Power Supply
CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail = $58.99

Operation System
My current copy of Windows XP Professional , hold off until Windows 7

Keyboard + Mouse
Logitech Cordless Desktop EX100 USB RF Wireless Keyboard and Optical Mouse = $25

After Shipping and what not its a total of $826.99. Then I have enough to get a bluetooth adapter, Wireless N PCI Card, and as you suggested Power DVD Ultra 8. Ill use my externals as a 2nd and 3rd hard drive for the system so I can seperate the ripping/encoding processes. Thanks guys for all your help, really appreciate it. If you have any last minute suggestions, Im probably not ordering for another week, but this was a fun process.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Looking good, I like your new mobo,ram and PS picks.

I would spend the extra $25 and get the WD 640gb HDD instead of the 500gb combo deal, the 640gb is not only larger but newer technology and out performs the older 500gb model.
The extra size and performance are well worth $25 IMO.

Some of newegg combo deals are good, but many times (like this one) they are using a new hot item (PhII) to try and clear out stock on old item.

 

[Steve3596]

just put together the setup, it runs great. Ended up getting the western digital caviar green edition 1tb hd so I can get a good cache and silent operation. You can barely hear the thing and the video quality is great. Just wanted to thank all you guys for your help.

 

[swbsam]

I just spent half of that.. I don't get why people put high end stuff into a media center, unless they'd like to game on it too..Gaming experiences are often so clunky though - just get an xbox 360.

Amd 780g chipset board with hdmi - video acceleration, including blu ray - $80
Blu ray rom - lite on - $89
amd low-wattage cpu (dual core) - $60
As much storage as you can afford

Bla blah .

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: swbsam
I just spent half of that.. I don't get why people put high end stuff into a media center, unless they'd like to game on it too..Gaming experiences are often so clunky though - just get an xbox 360.

Originally posted by: Steve3596
1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
Primarily for playing/encoding/ripping movies HD movies. A HTPC system with good sound and excellent video.

Answered. If you're doing a lot of HD encoding you want as much CPU muscle as you can get your hands on.

BTW, glad to hear the build went smooth & you're happy!

 

[swbsam]

Originally posted by: Denithor

Originally posted by: swbsam
I just spent half of that.. I don't get why people put high end stuff into a media center, unless they'd like to game on it too..Gaming experiences are often so clunky though - just get an xbox 360.

Originally posted by: Steve3596
1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
Primarily for playing/encoding/ripping movies HD movies. A HTPC system with good sound and excellent video.

Answered. If you're doing a lot of HD encoding you want as much CPU muscle as you can get your hands on.

BTW, glad to hear the build went smooth & you're happy!

I still don't get it. Even if the reduction in encoding time is 50% for a processor that costs 200% more.. Well. Why not just let everything encode over night?

And ripping/encoding blu-ray is a bag of hurt.. face it, if you're going to break the law anyway it's faster to just download already encoded rips