Newbies guide to Chilled Liquid Cooling W/ Build log*CANCLED*

DerwenArtos12

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Apr 7, 2003
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Hello again,

That time of year has come around again, it's just a little too chilly at night to be under cars or in the workshop so I've had it find a project for the indoors. After some perusing for slightly out of the ordinary projects I happened, yet again, on XtremeSystem.org forums and a forum called Chilled Water. I highly recommend you look over the sticky's there as they cover this a lot better than I'll be able to.

The basic idea is pretty simple though, use a refrigerant compressor, condenser and evaporator to create sub freezing temperatures then, unlike direct phase change, to chill a liquid and then use that liquid to chill whatever parts of your PC you so desire.

The benefits here are:
1) extremely cold temperatures, similar to single stage phase change and probably better than any off the shelf phase change.
2) Flexibility based on needs and skill level. These can vary from the super simple like mine, to the ridiculously complex.

I chose to go the uber-simple way as I was a complete stranger to this right up till I decided to build one. The basic ingredients for the version I'm building are:
1) A window AC unit, preferably right around 5000BTU's and in good shape.
2) A good cooler, there are too many options here to list them all as I'll go over later.
3) Some basic hand tools for the simplest build and some power tools if you really want to jazz it up.
4) The Liquid, Continue on for more details, there is an entire section on this.
5) A pump, preferably not a standard grade water cooling pump as we'll go into more later.
6) Water Block(s), to each his own here though there are a few things to be wary of.
7) Tubing, again the standard for water cooling need not apply; we'll be dealing with solvents and sub0freezing temperatures.

Ok, so you got all the goodies, let?s get to work. WAIT maybe we should go over a few things first. Let?s start with your AC unit. They are truly not all built equally. There are a LOT of different variables and I'll attempt to address them all individually.

-----------------------------------AC UNIT------------------------------------------------------
Labeled Picture
Refrigerant, aka the good stuff, is the actual material used to create the sub-freezing temperatures by being pushed into the high side and condensed into a liquid, then flow restricted and evaporated. The most popular used in AC units till just a couple years ago was R-22, also known as propane, yup, propane. R-22 is unfortunately very bad for the environment and therefore no longer available in most parts of the world for use as a refrigerant. If your system purges at some point things get a lot more complicated as it will have to be re-filled by someone licensed to do so. The basic license is available for free and online but, only covers certain refrigerants. I HIGHLY recommend finding a nearby AC shop and paying them to do it for you! Any refrigerant I know of is pretty highly toxic so, if you work on this inside take caution to not break any of the seals. And I do recommend wearing eye protection as well as gloves while working directly with the AC system. If you do accidentally or intentionally purge the system back away quickly and make every attempt to not inhale the gases. Make sure you have immediate ventilation. If you have animals make sure they're not around while working as the fumes could be fatal in a large enough dose, there is no oxygen in these refrigerants. I will not be held liable for any personal injury or property damage due to the accidental or intentional purging of coolant from your system.

The compressor: does as it says and compresses the liquid. This creates a great deal of pressure on what is termed the high side of the loop. Any gas can be made into a liquid with enough pressure, that?s where the compressor comes in.

The Condenser, the main piece of the high side of the loop. The Condenser is pressurized by the compressor and this is where the gas turns to liquid, size does matter but, is not king in a properly designed unit. This has to be cooled at all times, though the actual amount of cooling needed varies based on the temperature of the entire system and whether it's just attempting to maintain a temperature on the low side or if it's currently pulling the temperature down.

The Evaporator, this is fairly self-explanatory, this is where the liquid evaporates into gas. This is the actual phase change that is being used to cool the liquid. Just like in open air, anything that evaporates creates a cooling effect and the lower the boiling point the lower the temperature your system is going to be capable of. There are a few evaporator options but, for the sake of this thread, we'll just be using the one built into our window AC unit.

The flow restrictor, there are two basic types, a TVX or a valve that varies the flow based on the temperatures in the line just before the compressor, and a capillary tube which is basically just a very thin and long piece of tubing in line between the condenser and the evaporator that statically controls the flow. A TVX valve is highly regarded as the best way to go but, a capillary tube is substantially less expensive and what will be on most window AC units, like mine.

Motor and Fans. There will generally just be one big motor in the middle of the unit with a shaft that passes through it to run two separate fans, one for the condenser and one for the evaporator. This can either be slightly modified and re-used in the new chiller or discarded, I chose to hang on to it and just modify it slightly. We will no longer be needing the fan on the evaporator side so it will be removed, there must always be active cooling on the condenser side, so be sure to have a back-up plan if your motor/fan are either not working or are going to be removed.

That?s pretty much it. I'll have pictures of each component up later this morning. On to the fun part! Well, maybe not quite yet, we have some more component selection to do.

----------------------------------------Cooler--------------------------------------------
This is where your exact purpose really comes into play. There are two basic options here:
1) a small cooler, just large enough to fit your evaporator. This option gives you the fastest pull down time(time to get your liquid to the desired temperature) but, the compressor will have to run more often if not all the time to keep the liquid cool.
2) A LARGE COOLER will take an exponentially greater amount of time to get the liquid cool but, depending on acceptable temperature variations, can stay cool for a LONG time, therefore meaning less on time for the compressor.

I went with a smaller cooler, just large enough for my compressor however; I think I'll be adding a secondary reservoir later on, so that I'll be able to shut-off my compressor. Probably going to be a 2 or 3 gallon addition.

-------------------------------------------The Liquid-----------------------------------------
Here is where the warnings really start. The liquid described here-in is highly flammable as well as having somewhat toxic vapors and is quite poisonous! Some states require you to be 18 in order to even purchase certain ingredients. This is a fun project but, care must be taken in the handling and containment of these chemicals. I will not be held responsible for any personal injury or property damage sustained from the improper handling or containment of these chemicals.

The recipes vary a lot depending on temperature but, there are some basic components.
1) Denatured Alcohol, also called SLX. Highly flammable but, with an extremely low freezing point.

2) Distilled water, absorbs and releases temperature much more quickly than the denatured alcohol but, with a 0C/32F freezing point it can not be taken below freezing alone.

3) Antifreeze. Not actually used for it's propylene glycol component to prevent freezing but, used to help prevent galvanic corrosion, there are at least 4 different metals in most evaporators and there can be more, plus the metals used in your cooling loop. Without this your system is likely to, over time, eat itself to death.

There are other options obviously but, these are what I'm using and given there success and their recommendations by other people using them, there what I'll recommend as well. The mix I'm using will be 50%SLX, 45% Distilled Water and 5% antifreeze.

-------------------------------------Pump-------------------------------------------------
Here the possibilities become nearly limitless. Most every recommendation to me has been a pond pump of one kind or another. I won't make any recommendations here as I have very limited experience with any of them but, I'll list the things to look for and to avoid.
Flow rate is extremely important. I've been told the basic minimum is 200GPH free flowing. The liquid being used is thicker than water at room temperature and quite a bit thicker at negative temperatures so, you will not be achieving the rated flow of the pump, that?s why the minimum is so high. I chose to go with a pump that flowed 375GPH.

Seals, you want as few seals as possible, mag drives are ideal as they don't have a seal going from the impeller to the motor but, they can still have seals elsewhere that will have to be take care of. O-rings will fail at sub-freezing temperatures so they will have to be removed and a cold temp sealant or epoxy will have to be used in their place.

In lines are generally suggested as they're not that hard to insulate and there will be no chance of the motor freezing. A submersible will not need any insulation but, will dump the motor heat into the coolant and could freeze up if the temps drop low enough. It's up to you.

--------------------------------------------Water Blocks---------------------------------------
At long last I?m calling time on the e-mails I?ve been waiting for. Amaizingly I only got a response from one company, XSPC. And beyond that I got a reply from one of their standard e-mail support guys who couldn?t say for sure so he checked with one of the design engineers. Here is my rather opinion filled breakdown of the current blocks out now as it pertains to a chiller set-up. This is not all the same as you would want to reference for a regular water cooling setup. Please read Aigomorla?s sticky for information on standard water cooling.

XSPC: They get to go first because they?re the only company I heard back from. According to an XSPC rep who checked with one of the design engineers they only test their equipment to -5C but, given their construction method it should function without flaw to ~-25C. Why is this so different from the others? It is not disassemblable block. The brass top and copper bottom are machined to within 0 tolerances and pressed together. A connection like this is theoretically fully hermetic. Furthermore the expansion/contraction rates for brass and copper are so close that even with the huge temperature fluctuations a system like this will be exposed to; there is no need for any o-rings between the two halves of the block unlike all other designs. The major drawback to this design is that it?s not disassemblable. If something gets lodged in it or were there to be an algae buildup or if corrosion ever becomes a problem the block is sealed, the best you can do is flush it out. This block is very high flowing as well, it flows just slightly less than the D-tek but, more than the GTX.

D-tek Fuzion: Great performing block for water cooling but, it?s delrin top rules it out if you?re going below -10-15C as there is a chance it will crack. Besides that or if there were to be a metal top every produced for it, it would be the way to go. It?s the highest flowing block that I?ve seen flowcharts for and the pinnacle of customizable with options for factory supported accelerator nozzles and non-factory supported bowing.

Apogee GTX: As far as I can see it, this block only has 2 issues. It comes from the factory bowed but, if running below ~15C the o-ring could fail and with the solvents used it could fail in time even above that temperature so it has to be removed which takes the bow out of the block. Secondly it comes with an aluminum top. While galvanic corrosion should not be an issue, aluminum has an expansion/contraction rate a couple times that of the copper base so sealing it *could* prove to be an issue. If budget is less of an issue then there is a copper top available for it, for an additional $40. I just can?t see spending $100 with shipping for a waterblock when some of it?s contenders are half the price.

EK Supreme: Another fantastic performing water block pulled from the competition for having an acetal top. This would have been my choice were it to include a brass or copper top.

Thermalright XWB-1: Finally we have the new kid on the block from thermalright. This block is a copper top and base with a steel center plate. This is a great block for the purposes of a chiller given the right combination of components. This block is one of the most restrictive out right now and absolutely the most restrictive on this list. The upside here is that most of these chiller set-ups use obscenely big pumps that flow in excess of what most any pump used for standard water cooling. The major advantage here is that the block is completely disassemblable. It does use an o-ring between the bottom of the block and the steel plate but, none between the steel plate and the top. This o-ring will need to be replaced if dipping below ~15C and I would recommend sealing between the top of the block and the steel plate as steel does expand/contract slightly quicker than the copper.

Prepping your block:
So you picked a block. If it?s the XSPC good for you, throw your barbs in, silicon around where the barbs meet the block and skip ahead to insulation. If you bought any of the other or even ones not on this list, continue reading. Now is when that plan of yours comes into big play, how cold are you going to be running? If it?s above -15C then you got off easy and should be able to skip ahead to insulation; if you?d like some extra insurance please, read on.

The main issue that arises with block preparation is the o-rings; they just will not stand up if you?re going really cold. They?ll either shrink and leak or crack and leak. There are two basic options for replacing them. RTV sealant available at any automotive store is the method I chose. It is a rubber compound but, it?s specially formulated to tolerate extreme temperatures and chemicals. Its primary use is to seal coolant and or oil passages in engines and is often used to help seal head gaskets. The other option is a low temp silicone. Readily available at most home-improvement or hardware stores it?s available in colored or clear and in many different formulations. Just make sure to look for the special ones that can be applied down to -35F, standard silicone 1 or 2 could crack at the lowest temperatures we go. Also make sure to seal where the barbs meet the block, just in case.

---------------------------------------Tubing----------------------------------------------
This one is fairly simple, you HAVE to get tubing with a very low brittle point and with high resistance to chemicals. Tygon has two tubings I can recommend, the Silver tubing and the 2075 ultra chemical resistant. Both should stand up to the low temperatures and solvents being used. I went with the silver as its lower priced and I really don't care to see in as the tubing has to be insulated anyway and the silver should help insulate, it's also antimicrobial, not that anything could survive in this concoction anyways but, it can't hurt right?

I?ve recently learned about another option that is probably more readily available, especially in Europe. It?s called Pex and is used in commercial and residential building and is available in ½? ID ¾? OD and is highly chemical and temperature resistant. It is however not very flexible due to it?s chemical make-up. It can however be repaired if kinked. All that has to be done if kinked is to heat it up with a heat gun or blow torch till it gets nearly clear then let it set, it will actually re-align the molecules in the tubing and make it stronger than it was before it kinked however, completely inflexible.

------------------------------------What we're actually doing here----------------------------------
I intentionally haven't gone over how this whole monstrosity works and how it's done till now to make sure that everyone reading has a basic idea of how each part works before we explore how they work in conjunction with each other.

What we're actually doing here is submerging the evaporator core in the solvent filled cooler then pumping the solvent through the water block(s). You're smart so I'm sure you've figured that much out by now but, how does that actually work?

All refrigeration systems need some kind of load in order to work properly. As an AC unit that load was the air being pulled through the evaporator core. As a chiller that load is put on it by the solvent, which is being heated in turn by the CPU. That load is what is going to determine the absolute lowest temperature achievable.



*That's all for now folks, the build log and pictures will begin this evening after a trip to the hardware store*
 

DerwenArtos12

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Apr 7, 2003
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At last, on to my individual build. Everything up to this point has been general and strictly informational. From here on in is just what I?ve done to make my chiller.

Started with a Kenmore 5150BTU Window AC unit that I picked up form a co-worker about a year ago with the intent of doing god knows what with it; for $35(actually it was 2 for $70). My first step was to get familiar with HVAC in general; that took about a month to be honest. Then I opened up my AC unit and started playing around. The whole process is amazingly and even eerily simple considering I was playing with a rather large propane compressor (1/2hp as best I can tell), subfreezing temperatures, and some gnarly solvents.

First things first, a good plan can go a long way. Most of these units are operated in the open and are strictly for benchmarking. This unit was going to be for my main gaming rig and needed to be able to run 7-8 hours a day, as much as 7 days a week, around three cats, so wide open was not an option. I considered making a full case for everything (computer included) but, decided there was no real point to this as I have plenty of computer cases around and no reason to build another one from scratch. That left me with just building a case for the chiller, and then running the tubing to an existing case. I haven?t yet decided which case I?m going to use so, here are my two plans. Yup, more paint illustrations from me, you know you love them!

Plan1 ? Chiller case with mid-tower positioned next to it.

Plan 2 ? Chiller with HTPC case positioned on top of it.

As you can see, there is no real difference between the two chiller cases, just where the tubing is routed. I?m leaning slightly towards plan 2 ATM but, who knows what I?ll actually end up doing. I sure don?t.

Next up was finding a cooler. The small cooler shown above was suggested to other guys building these on a thread over at XS so I thought I would try and find one. My local target didn?t carry them but, with a little digging I found one at my local ACE Hardware.

Now the AC unit modifications. For my chiller this was going to be absolutely minimal as I am even keeping the stock controller unit to regulate temperatures for me instead of springing for some piercing valves, gauges, and a TVX. This is where the planning aspect becomes VERY important, the tubing itself is fairly rugged but, can and will kink if not careful. The brazed joints are another story, a wrong bend or twist and any one of the brazed joints can pop and sent your coolant flying. Proceed with caution, I recommend pickup up a tubing bender of some kind. I had an old fixed position bender laying around that I used as it works better than the newer lever style ones for un-bending tubing though it is much harder to use for making new bends.

The capillary tubing is the easiest part of the whole thing, there is usually about a meter to a meter and half of the cap tubing just coiled up and waiting to get moved around. All recommendations I?ve seen have been to tie the cap tube to the suction line (the line running from the evap to the compressor. This allows for heat exchange between them which will make them both more efficient.

My system had a rather inconvenient layout from the factory with the suction line passing from the collector/dryer to up to the top, then back down to the bottom then over to the evap and half-way back up the evap to its exit. He cap tube came out of the condenser, coiled next to the compressor and then across the bottom to the evap feed line. I unfortunately do not have a picture illustrating the original layout.

From my planning and studying of the layout I figured the easiest thing to do would be to run the cap tube along the evap as suggested starting up at the top of the collector/dryer then up some, across to the entrance hole cut into the cooler and then down, using some of the stock bends to curve the tubes down then back up into the condenser, making a U shape to help make sure no liquid makes it up the suction line. I?ll have a picture of the new layout up in the morning.

Cooler modifications are next. Once you have the evap lines properly positioned you can ease the evap down into the cooler. You want to get it as close to the bottom as possible and running diagonally if at all possible. The purpose of running it diagonally is that the pump or the feed line can reside on one side and the return line on the other so the liquid will be forced through the evaporator for the best possible efficiency. Once positioned you should have a pretty clear idea of where the tubes are going to run so you can cut the notch in the lid. Ideally all tubes should run through the lid not the sides of the container.

Most coolers will have a hollow lid, cuts down on price and it?s not like cool rises. I opted to fill the lid of my cooler with a spray in foam on the side the tubes would be passing through. The cooler I?m using does have a split lid, this is especially useful if you can run all your tubes through the lid as you can semi-permanently seal the tubes in place and still have access to the pump, fluid and evaporator. The better you can insulate everything the cooler temperatures will be at the CPU.

That?s where I am at this point. I have the denatured alcohol and distilled water but, am currently working on getting some anti-freeze. I?ve chosen to go with Pentosin G12+ as it has some of the best-anti-corrosive properties I could find and I have a relative at a VW dealership who I?m attempting to get a 1.5L bottle through. I?ve got most of the insulation supplies starting to build up but, have a few more items to get.

Got the Pump!! Bought a Pondmaster Model 3.7. It's a danner mag drive model with 375 gallons per minute and a 3 meter total pump height. I was fairly limited with pump selection because I really only wanted to pick it up locally in case I needed to return it for some reason. Since I was stuck getting a model about 50% more powerful that the one I was originally looking at I decided to add a flow control valve. Pictures:
Full shot of pump with fittings and flow control valve
Close up of flow control valve and intake fittings
Close up of outlet fitting

It?s a monster. She was assembled and leak tested with no leaks on the first shot but, when the flow control ball valve was utilized the suction on the intake side managed to pull air in through one of the fittings. I had planned on sealing all the fitting joints with silicone anyway but, that really cemented the need for it. It should be dry at the time of this update but, have not checked on it yet. I also replaced the o-ring with RTV on this, just as I will on the block. I did both simultaneously so that I wouldn?t have to separate set times.

As for the block; I?ll be ordering the thermalright and some shorty fittings this morning. More fun to come, I?ll try and take some pictures while playing with the pump again now that it?s all set up and ready to go.
 

DerwenArtos12

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Apr 7, 2003
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Originally posted by: mrblotto
Very interesting!

Thanks, I would hae had more up today but I spent ALL day at the old lady's work trying to fix her bosses computer. Somehow, the VGA expansion for her low profile video card(didn't bother to look at the model) came loose and got pushed into the case which shorted against the LAN controller chip and killed the entire motherboard.
 

DerwenArtos12

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Apr 7, 2003
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Got the first e-mail back from our illustrious manufacturers this morning from XSPC:

Thanks for your email.

1. Block is combined with brass, copper and Rubber Oring. It seems ok for -25C.

2. Pump, I am not sure now. I think it will be ok at -10C. I am not sure about -25C. I think it is too cold. The plastic parts may distort and cause leaking. I will check with the engineer and confirm to you tomorrow.

Best Regards
Dazhong

XSPC was actually the last company I sent an e-mail to and the first to reply and I guess we'll have more info tomorrow! It's too bad I'm not a patient person.
 

DerwenArtos12

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Apr 7, 2003
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Got my pump, pics are up at XS! will put them up on bbzzdd a little later and have them linked here. Still waiting on e-mails about blocks. If I get no responses by the end of the day, I'll be ordering either the thermalright or the XSPC, still not sure.
 

Owls

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what kind of noise level are we looking at with the compressor?

I'm looking into a vapochill unit, however at $899 it's rather steep.
 

aigomorla

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Sep 28, 2005
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Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
Got my pump, pics are up at XS! will put them up on bbzzdd a little later and have them linked here. Still waiting on e-mails about blocks. If I get no responses by the end of the day, I'll be ordering either the thermalright or the XSPC, still not sure.

Those arent the best of blocks. Expecially the XSPC.

I think i told you the copper top gtx with some calk sealant would probably be your best route. The entire block would be made of metal, and the calk sealant would save your oring.

You dont want something terribly restrictive on that thing, because its gonna be cold as heck. you let the hugh temperature difference do the work.

Also be careful about chilled water. The only reason why i didnt go for a full blown chiller is because the prep needed on the board is a one time shooter. Meaning once you prep it, thats it for the board on any other platform.

And cleaning it is a PITA to near impossibility.

dont forget to insulate.
 

DerwenArtos12

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Apr 7, 2003
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Originally posted by: aigomorla
Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
Got my pump, pics are up at XS! will put them up on bbzzdd a little later and have them linked here. Still waiting on e-mails about blocks. If I get no responses by the end of the day, I'll be ordering either the thermalright or the XSPC, still not sure.

Those arent the best of blocks. Expecially the XSPC.

I think i told you the copper top gtx with some calk sealant would probably be your best route. The entire block would be made of metal, and the calk sealant would save your oring.

You dont want something terribly restrictive on that thing, because its gonna be cold as heck. you let the hugh temperature difference do the work.

Also be careful about chilled water. The only reason why i didnt go for a full blown chiller is because the prep needed on the board is a one time shooter. Meaning once you prep it, thats it for the board on any other platform.

And cleaning it is a PITA to near impossibility.

dont forget to insulate.

Well, both the thermalright and the XSPC are solid metal. The thermalright is copper top and bottom with a steel middle plate that I'll just have to seal and the XSPC is copper bottom and brass top that have been pressed together, no seals to even have to change out except on the barbs.

I honestly rarely if ever sell any of my equipent off, I'd just as well tuck it away for a rainy day or drive it into the ground having fun as to sell it.

I'm ver reaedy to insulate, I've got liquid electric tape, dielectric grease, clear nail polish, some foam pads, some rubber pads, insluation tape and pipe insulation on stand by and ready to go.

From what all I can tell the thermalright is slightly more restrictive but, the XSPC flows just as well as the apogee GTX and at half the price. Considering the temperature of the liquid I'm not all too worried about flow, especially with the pump I got.
 

DerwenArtos12

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Originally posted by: Owls
what kind of noise level are we looking at with the compressor?

I'm looking into a vapochill unit, however at $899 it's rather steep.

My unit is going to be substatially quieter when everything is said and done. The unit will be inside an insulated box and I'll be using the sound isolation base that came on the compressor as well as some extra rubber to soften it a little further and I'll be isolating the pump from the main housing as well with the base provided with the pump. The main area of contention for noise at the moment is the condenser fan. The stock one is just loud, there are no two ways about it, and it is adjustable with a high and low setting but, I guess we'll see how it sounds once it's in the box. If it ends up being too loud I'll just swap it out for 4-6 120x38mm fans and set them up to fun full bore at start up and pull down but, once the chiller is down to temp I should be able to shut off half of them and still have it working effectively enough.

As far as dbA I really couldn't tell you at the moment as I don't have the main box assembled yet but, I'm certainly going to do everything I can to keep it under 30dbA at 1 meter.
 

DerwenArtos12

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Originally posted by: WoodButcher
Will this run 24/7?

there are a few guys running them 24/7 but, I'll probably only run mine 6-8 hours a day, probably 7 days a week. There is one guy on XS building Goliath which will be chilled liquid and chilled air running sub-0C 24/7.
 

DerwenArtos12

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Updates are online in the main article as well as the build log including pics of the pump. I'll be ordering the thermalright block this morning and hope to have it by my next set of nights off so I can get it prepped.
 

DerwenArtos12

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After more leak testing I am still getting air sucked into the system with the valve on beyond 25% so I put a second layer of silicone on, this time, covering pretty much the entire body of the valve. Have to give it another 24 hours to cure before I do more leak testing. I gotta say, waterproofing was easy to this point, it's getting it air tight thats proving to be difficult.

On a side note, the pump really seems to respond well to back pressure on the outlet side so the more restrictive block seems to be the way to go. I'm ordering the thermalright in about 30 seconds. I'm fairly sure I'll be needing to buy/make some 90 degree bends to get the tubing out the rear like I wanted.
 

WoodButcher

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Mar 10, 2001
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Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
On a side note, the pump really seems to respond well to back pressure on the outlet side so the more restrictive block seems to be the way to go. I'm ordering the thermalright in about 30 seconds. I'm fairly sure I'll be needing to buy/make some 90 degree bends to get the tubing out the rear like I wanted.

Like these???
I like 3/8" ID Clearflex tubing in my loops and these 3/8" ells finisihed are 7/16" ID. I couldn't be happier. I used 1/4" thread brass close nipples, ground the threads a little to fit in the ells. Flared the ends of the straight pipe and nipples with a countersink and then soldered the whole mess together. Cost about $30 all told because I had to buy 10' of copper.
 

DerwenArtos12

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Originally posted by: WoodButcher
Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
On a side note, the pump really seems to respond well to back pressure on the outlet side so the more restrictive block seems to be the way to go. I'm ordering the thermalright in about 30 seconds. I'm fairly sure I'll be needing to buy/make some 90 degree bends to get the tubing out the rear like I wanted.

Like these???
I like 3/8" ID Clearflex tubing in my loops and these 3/8" ells finisihed are 7/16" ID. I couldn't be happier. I used 1/4" thread brass close nipples, ground the threads a little to fit in the ells. Flared the ends of the straight pipe and nipples with a countersink and then soldered the whole mess together. Cost about $30 all told because I had to buy 10' of copper.

yeah, something very similar to that. I was going to see if martin had any left or if anyone was selling a couple of his but, from looking at everything I think I'm going to need to G1/4 thread one side of the 90 and screw them right into the block. obviously making one taller than the other. I honestly think I'm going to just have to wait till I get the block and get it on my motherboard till I'll know for sure. It's not like I don't have a few spare cases but, I really wanted to try and use this HTPC case that cost me about $200 a few years ago and has been sitting on a shelf for most of the time I've owned it.
 

WoodButcher

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I'll donate to the cause if you want. Your loop will carry more pressure than a normal waterloop does it not? I didn't cut barbs in mine as I haven't figured a way to get them neat enough, they might leak. I used soft, coiled copper and it is not perfectly round so when I mounted the cut peice on an arbor the cuts for the barb were not even all round.
If your using 7/16" or 1/2" tubing check to see if It will stretch or slide over 1/2" hard copper pipe. If so you may be able to use a "street ell" The "street" has a hub for pipe on one side and the other is the same side as pipe to fit into another ell for a shorter offset, the street side could go right to your tubing if it will work w/o a barb.
If you can send me something like this maybe I can help. The threaded ells I pictured for example, dimension A = 1 9/16", B = 1 9/16", C = 1 1/16" ID = 7/16" and the OD at the same location is 1/2". If you pay shipping I'll make someting and send them out, You pay shipping and materiels.
 

DerwenArtos12

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,278
0
0
Originally posted by: WoodButcher
I'll donate to the cause if you want. Your loop will carry more pressure than a normal waterloop does it not? I didn't cut barbs in mine as I haven't figured a way to get them neat enough, they might leak. I used soft, coiled copper and it is not perfectly round so when I mounted the cut peice on an arbor the cuts for the barb were not even all round.
If your using 7/16" or 1/2" tubing check to see if It will stretch or slide over 1/2" hard copper pipe. If so you may be able to use a "street ell" The "street" has a hub for pipe on one side and the other is the same side as pipe to fit into another ell for a shorter offset, the street side could go right to your tubing if it will work w/o a barb.
If you can send me something like this maybe I can help. The threaded ells I pictured for example, dimension A = 1 9/16", B = 1 9/16", C = 1 1/16" ID = 7/16" and the OD at the same location is 1/2". If you pay shipping I'll make someting and send them out, You pay shipping and materiels.

Wow, thanks for the offer. I ordered the block yesterday so it should be in mid week and I'll know for sure. I also ordered a new backplate as my DFI only had the thick plastic one. I should be able to start prepping the insulation today but, won't be able to finalize till the block and backplate arrive. I hadn't remembered it but, the HTPC case I'm using actually has 3/4" standoffs so I have TONS of room behind the motherboard for insulation :D I should have ordered the block sooner but, I was really hoping for more of a manufacturer response. I'll take pictures of the insulation prep I do this morning and have it up by the end of the day. I've dropped the motherboard in the case but, I can't find any specs on the height of the block w/ barbs... IF I could find that I would know for sure ahead of time.
 

WoodButcher

Platinum Member
Mar 10, 2001
2,158
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No prob, I'd be glad to help if I can. What I have made already I gave pretty accurate dimensions, as you can see they can be made with or w/o threads, I'll put some press on one today to see how well the tubing holds w/o the barbs and just a clamp. A cooling works rad 2x120 I used in a pressure test started to expand at less than 25 lbs of air so I can't imagine any loop holding more. We'll see. Let me know what you need and maybe I can fabricate it. Keep in mind though I'm just a hack, no machinists here!
 

DerwenArtos12

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,278
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Originally posted by: WoodButcher
No prob, I'd be glad to help if I can. What I have made already I gave pretty accurate dimensions, as you can see they can be made with or w/o threads, I'll put some press on one today to see how well the tubing holds w/o the barbs and just a clamp. A cooling works rad 2x120 I used in a pressure test started to expand at less than 25 lbs of air so I can't imagine any loop holding more. We'll see. Let me know what you need and maybe I can fabricate it. Keep in mind though I'm just a hack, no machinists here!

I'm a pretty decent hack too ;) Unfortunately the little machine shop I have is pretty much useless right now. Not to mention I've never worked copper before.


On another note, some digging this morning has found a czech review that includes a modified top for the xwb-1 make by http://www.wroom.wz.cz/. I can't find it on their website but the review links them directly. I don't suppose anyone here can read Czech?
 

DerwenArtos12

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,278
0
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Well, I'm retarded. Set the motherboard in the case with the new(to me) processor in it and I have almost exactly 5" to the top of the case. The tubing I ordered has a minimum bend of 1 3/4". Call that 2 inches and the block 3/4" and the barbs could be 2" tall to clear the top of the case.
 

WoodButcher

Platinum Member
Mar 10, 2001
2,158
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Well the offer still stands if you need them. I did a little testing to see what clamps would hold up on my elbows w/ no barbs and tried different goodies. The reusable nylon clamps like these didn't perform well w/o a barb, they held but leaked at 10 lbs on the 1/2" tygon, The zip ties Aigo is so fond of and me too for that matter didn't slide or leak until about 25 lbs air. Keep in mind I expanded a radiator at this pressure, same compressor and dial indicator. The screw type at 50 lbs, well,,, here is a 1000 words. My 3/8" clearflex had no prob and the zip tie on the barbed fitting / plug at the end passed the test also.