Newbie working on 1st build

[Evenkeel]

Hello, all,

I'm glad to join this forum. I've been lurking for awhile, and have been enjoying the depth of knowledge here. I should tell you all a bit about myself (briefly!) so you know where I'm coming from, before I ask my questions.

First of all, I'm a lot closer to 50 than 20. I don't do much in the way of gaming, so oc'ing and so forth isn't important to me. The reason I'm building my next system is that my experiences w/my current system, from a well-known direct-channel seller in Texas, has completely soured me on buying another pre-built, mass-market type system. :disgust: I thought of using a high-end builder like Alienware, but decided if I was going to spend that kind of $$, I might as well have the pleasure of doing it myself, not to mention the comfort of choosing each and every component myself.

So, what I do use a system for is video work, digital photography, etc. I miss the big honkin' towers that I used to get, so I want a full tower case. I want to be able to put in lots of drives, and basically still have space left over to park the car. I've looked at 2 on newegg that appeal to me:

This one:
Antec

for an affordable, yet spacious system, and this one:

Lian-Li

if I decide to go higher-end. And important to me, is to get a case without a power supply included (more on that below).

So first question on the cases: I've seen the Antec locally, and it looks very serviceable for what I want. But a window on the side isn't important to me. (I hope that's not sacrilege to say here!) The Lian-li looks very nice, but a tad pricey. However, I notice it has larger fans, and what about this new "upside-down" mobo placement? If I spend that much on a case, I'd probably like to use it on the system after this, so how important is its "BTX" compatibility? What I'd be putting in it now is probably a 925X mobo w/a Prescott 3.2 or 3.4. (Or maybe the Extreme, if the price comes down enough by the time I'm ready). Anyway, do you all think the Lian-li is worth the $$, if I'm planning to use it for the long haul?

As far as PSU, what seems important is high compatibility w/this mobo, plus a bunch of SATA connectors would be nice. I'd like quiet operation, and the PSU never to have to strain, no matter what I do to it. To that end, I've been looking at the PC Power & Cooling "Turbo-Cool 510 Express". There's a bit of sticker shock there, but then I think back on every pre-built system I've ever had, and they've all cheaped out on the PSU. If I'm going to do this, I want to do it right. What is the general opinion here of the PC Power products? Are they worth the extra $$? Is there anyplace else to get them other than direct from PC Power?

Well, I've rambled enough for my first post here. Thanks to all who reply.

 

[HardWarrior]

I'm close to 50 as well and I still game, in some cases quite well. Food for thought.

Cases: You have two considerations: Do you like the case you buy and does it suit your upgrade style and temperament? Having owned several cases, I can tell you with certainty that liking your purchase is very important. If not, you aren?t going to be happy, plain and simple. As far as upgrading, and depending on how frequently you do so, this is a major issue. A person who wants lots of components and/or swaps out components a lot needs a well-designed case that considers this. A case that you like the looks of can become a head-banger VERY quickly if it needs replacement because it doesn?t offer the room you need. BTX? Well, IMO the jury is still out on that one. If you can find a case that allows for it as an option you should be okay. Personally, I went with a Lian Li PC75b even though I had to spend a pretty penny for it.

PSU: This is a far simpler choice. High-quality, high-wattage, large 12v rail (or multiple 12v rails), feature-rich and a good warranty is the only way to fly, if you can afford it. I bought a 520w Vantec Stealth PSU about 3-years ago. By normal standards, and even among some enthusiast-types, my case is heavy with FRU's. I've yet to have ANY problems with it and it hasn't skipped a beat no matter what I've thrown at it. To answer your question, PCP&C doesn't only make first-rate PSU's, but they have done so for a long time. You'll be happy with one.

A general note in making choices; don't hesitate to read multiple reviews on anything you decide to buy. Testimonials aren't a bad thing either; just take them with a grain of salt.

GL on your adventure in homebrew computers Evenkeel, and welcome. If you have any questions, just ask. :thumbsup:

 

[Sonic587]

Welcome to the forums!

You've done some good research on cases. I'd say to get whatever you like out of those two. BTX compatibility isn't that important of a feature right now, as it will take a few years to get mainstream.

If you want BIG space and ATX/BTX compatibility, I'd take a look at the new Cooler Master Stacker.

http://www.newegg.com/app/view...=11-119-042&DEPA=0

Also, you've done some more great research on PSUs. PC Power & Cooling is simply regaurded as the best out there. They are well worth the investment, and the model you picked out has excellent amps on all rails.

I see you've chosen to go with Intel's new LGA775 chipset. IMO, a bad idea right now. That platform has yet to earn it's wings. It's just too expensive for the gain in peformance (a measly 1-5% in most cases.). It's also very soon to be outdated with the arrival of the new 1066MHz FSB P4s.

Have you thought about skt478? Or AMD 64?

 

[nick1985]

why not go athlon 64? it beats the P4 in everything except encoding. or are you one of those guys who only uses intel for some unknown reason.

 

[stevennoland]

Evenkeel, welcome and thankyou for giving up on the prebuilt crap! Your choices for the case are excellent. I am eyeing the same case. The power supply is also my first choice. You choice for the mobo (925x) is also excellent. You might want to wait, Intel is going to be releasing the 925XE wich will support a 1066MHz front side bus. Current Intel CPU's only have an 800MHz FSB. Of course the two CPU's that will have this speed of FSB ar going to be fast and expensive. I am willing to bet the increase on the FSB is going to make quite an improvement (@ least >4%). You also might want to check out Maxtor's Diamondmax 10 hard drive. It has 16MB of cache and 300GB of space. They are almost as fast as the Raptors. They also have native NCQ (Native Command Queing). Look it up. It is supposed to increase drive performance dramatically! If you really want to get crazy, you might want to water cool your rig. There are so many good compenents it almost seems crazy not to. Also, if you can spring for it, get a really good high-end vid card: nVidia 6800 Ultra or the ATI X800XT! Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[mechBgon]

Welcome to the Forums May I recommend jpeyton's system-spec guide thread to check out some recommended parts kits, and my computer-assembly guide if you need such a thing.

The Resources page starts off with keeping your "raw" Windows installation from getting infected by worms behind your back. If you have a broadband connection, or plan on one, definitely get a router to serve as your outer firewall.

I also suggest WinXP Professional, which you can set up so there's a "master" Administrator-class account that you use only for Administrator functions like installing/removing software and hardware. Then you can make separate Limited-class accounts for each user (including yourself) to use on a routine basis, plus maybe one called "Visitors" that you can allow visiting friends, nephews, nieces, to use. Password-protect all the accounts with strong passwords, and don't let other people use the Administrator account, and you'll be at very low risk for spyware or adware since it can't install from a Limited account, and also against share-hopping worms. By enabling Fast User Switching, multiple users can be logged on at the same time, making this a viable practice. WinXP Home doesn't do Limited accounts, anyone can install junk. And WinXP Home is supported at Windows Update only until the end of 2006, two years less than WinXP Professional. There are other reasons Pro is better, too, but I won't drown you with all that here

 

[Evenkeel]

Originally posted by: nick1985
why not go athlon 64? it beats the P4 in everything except encoding. or are you one of those guys who only uses intel for some unknown reason.

Nick1985,

Unknown reason, yes. Never had a system w/AMD, so it's probably just fear of the unknown. Nothing against it, just don't know much about it. Intel, I know reasonably well--not at the level you guys are at, for certain.

 

[imported_whatever]

i realize that this is only a small part of the system, but if you want to be reminded of ye olde towers, go with the antec sx1240, which can be had for $85 shipped here: http://store.yahoo.com/ocsystem/ansxchiefda0.html
also, for a close-to-as-good psu without the sticker shock, i would reccomend a fortron 530w, which can be had for less than $85 shipped here: http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=17-104-968&depa=0
im sure that the other suggestions are good, but seriously. the sx1240 is the biggest case EVER. it is 26.4" tall, almost as tall as the desk i am writing this at. and it is cheap.

 

[Sonic587]

Originally posted by: Evenkeel

Originally posted by: nick1985
why not go athlon 64? it beats the P4 in everything except encoding. or are you one of those guys who only uses intel for some unknown reason.

Nick1985,

Unknown reason, yes. Never had a system w/AMD, so it's probably just fear of the unknown. Nothing against it, just don't know much about it. Intel, I know reasonably well--not at the level you guys are at, for certain.

Nothing to fear with going to AMD if you decide you want to.

However, what is your budget for this new PC?

 

[Evenkeel]

Originally posted by: Sonic587
I see you've chosen to go with Intel's new LGA775 chipset. IMO, a bad idea right now. That platform has yet to earn it's wings. It's just too expensive for the gain in peformance (a measly 1-5% in most cases.). It's also very soon to be outdated with the arrival of the new 1066MHz FSB P4s.

Have you thought about skt478? Or AMD 64?

I just touched on my possible mobo to give all an idea of why I wanted the tower--I didn't want to stray off-topic, since I'm new. But since it came up... As I said in a reply to Nick1985, I really don't know that much about other mobo/chipsets... I'm still on the upslope of a v-e-r-y steep learning curve. I expect to learn more as I go along--for instance, I don't even know what skt478 is. This is part of the fun of learning new things for me, and I figured it was about time I learned to build my own system. I've changed/replaced more hard drives than I can count, popping out an expansion card is something I've gotten able to do in my sleep, I've set up several small networks, including a broadband router/firewall etc. at home, so I figured it was about time to leave the pre-built stuff behind, roll up my sleeves, and put it together. (Esp after my recent miserable experiences w/that well-known seller.)

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: whatever
i realize that this is only a small part of the system, but if you want to be reminded of ye olde towers, go with the antec sx1240, which can be had for $85 shipped here: http://store.yahoo.com/ocsystem/ansxchiefda0.html
also, for a close-to-as-good psu without the sticker shock, i would reccomend a fortron 530w, which can be had for less than $85 shipped here: http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=17-104-968&depa=0
im sure that the other suggestions are good, but seriously. the sx1240 is the biggest case EVER. it is 26.4" tall, almost as tall as the desk i am writing this at. and it is cheap.

Our primary domain controller at work lives in a silver Chieftec version of the SX1200 chassis. It's definitely capacious The upper 5.25" bays are so far from the motherboard that you'd need out-of-spec IDE cables (24 to 36 inches) to reach them, although they'd be great for hot-swap SCSI racks or a SCSI tape drive, since LVD SCSI cables may be as long as 12 meters.

 

[Sonic587]

Originally posted by: Evenkeel

Originally posted by: Sonic587
I see you've chosen to go with Intel's new LGA775 chipset. IMO, a bad idea right now. That platform has yet to earn it's wings. It's just too expensive for the gain in peformance (a measly 1-5% in most cases.). It's also very soon to be outdated with the arrival of the new 1066MHz FSB P4s.

Have you thought about skt478? Or AMD 64?

I just touched on my possible mobo to give all an idea of why I wanted the tower--I didn't want to stray off-topic, since I'm new. But since it came up... As I said in a reply to Nick1985, I really don't know that much about other mobo/chipsets... I'm still on the upslope of a v-e-r-y steep learning curve. I expect to learn more as I go along--for instance, I don't even know what skt478 is. This is part of the fun of learning new things for me, and I figured it was about time I learned to build my own system. I've changed/replaced more hard drives than I can count, popping out an expansion card is something I've gotten able to do in my sleep, I've set up several small networks, including a broadband router/firewall etc. at home, so I figured it was about time to leave the pre-built stuff behind, roll up my sleeves, and put it together. (Esp after my recent miserable experiences w/that well-known seller.)

Well, you've come to the right place to learn! As mech suggested, check out Jpeyton's wonderful guide over in General Hardware. Also, the search feature is your friend! Make good use of it! There will definitely be a lot of help for you in deciding what is right for your needs.

 

[Evenkeel]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Welcome to the Forums May I recommend jpeyton's system-spec guide thread to check out some recommended parts kits, and my computer-assembly guide if you need such a thing.

The Resources page starts off with keeping your "raw" Windows installation from getting infected by worms behind your back. If you have a broadband connection, or plan on one, definitely get a router to serve as your outer firewall.

I also suggest WinXP Professional, ...

Thank you for the resources! I'll read them over right away.

As far as XP Pro, I've been using it since a few months after it came out. I have all the AV, anti-spyware, anti-pest, firewall, anti-spam... boy, when you list it like that, it seems there's more self-defense stuff on the system, than system stuff! And as I mentioned in another reply above, my family and I have happily been on broadband via a home network for quite awhile now. I didn't mention it in my original post, because I wasn't sure how far off-topic I should stray, it being my first topic an all.

 

[Evenkeel]

Originally posted by: Sonic587

Nothing to fear with going to AMD if you decide you want to.

However, what is your budget for this new PC?

That is yet to be determined. In my current blissfully ignorant state, I figured I would purchase the best components I could afford, more or less at the time I needed them (which is why I'm here, first, asking about cases and PSU's). In the meantime, I hoped to learn more--much, much more--about how all this home-brew stuff works. Also in the meantime, I expected some components I might choose would drop in price while I was deciding. One of the exciting things for me about building my own is that I don't have to lay out the $$ all at once.

I think my current miserable experience w/the mass-market unit I currently use will probably push me to go top-of-the-line in the areas that matter most to me. Which areas are those? Fast CPU, but it doesn't need to be the fastest--a notch or three down from the top is fine. A newer mobo/chipset w/SATA, a lot of USB, at least 3 Firewire, space for at least 4 drives. Initially I wouldn't have picked Intel for the mobo, because they were, until recently, resisting putting Firewire onboard (I didn't want to add a card for Firewire), but they added it in the 925.

Fast drives, but they don't need to be 10K rpm Raptors. I was looking at Maxtor's Ultra series, as quiet means more to me right now than the extra RPM. I've had pretty good luck w/Maxtor over the years. W/Intel's new offerings, I'd like to have 400 GB in a RAID 0 config, or maybe a combo of RAID 0/1, plus a third high-GB drive for deep storage.

A very quiet system, overall. I've read that 120mm fans are quieter than 80mm, which would be one thing that might sway me towards the Lian-li--tho I imagine I could add whatever size fan I wanted to the Antec or other large case. (I think I just like the pretty black case.)

Much RAM, at least 2 GB. My current system has 512MB, which I thought was enough at the time, but recently, editing a 100MB photo brought my system to its knees.

The areas that are not as important to me (okay, guys, please don't blast me!), are video and sound. I know, coming to a forum like anandtech and saying I don't care much about two very important gaming components is tantamount to heresy. The onboard sound on the Intel mobo would probably suit me just fine, tho. As far as video--geez, if you think I'm dense about the mobo/CPU... I sort of know what the top-of-the-line units are from ATI and nVidia, but I don't need or want top of the line. Again, a notch or two down would be fine. I don't game much, and what I do do puts far less stress on my system than burning a DVD.

I'd want very current DVD burners--I have an external Plextor 708, in addition to the internal NEC one that came w/my current system. Double/dual layer... mmm, not ready for prime time yet, so a fast internal single layer, possibly the new Plextor SATA 12X? (Worth it?) Tho if it takes me very long to get all this together, who knows what will be current? (Oops, just noticed how cheap double-layer burners were--my bad.)

Anyway, as you cn see, right now I'm all over the map (which is part of the fun). Unless my current system has a fatal melt-down, I'm not in a screaming hurry to have a finished system. I'd rather take my time, learn as much as I can as I go, and spread out the (not inconsiderable) cost as much as possible, while keeping the component quality up. The old saying, "Fast, good, cheap--pick any two", doesn't apply here. All I want is "good".

 

[mechBgon]

If you want "good," keep your eyes peeled for the Seagate Cheetah 15k.4's. SCSI goodness, baby :evil: If you plan to use ATA drives, you might as well get ATA/100 or ATA/133. The best SATA drive, the 74GB Ratpro, is actually an ATA/133 drive with a SATA bridge chip tacked on. So much for the "special-ness" of SATA If you get a serious hankering for I/O performance, I can make suggestions on a SCSI setup. It's outgrown the hellaciously-noisy-and-hot phase, although it's still not as quiet as the limp-wristed 7200rpm drives. But darn, can it ever get the work done! More than a 100% performance improvement in heavy-I/O tasks at work (meaning, my work) compared to a "fast" ATA drive with 8MB cache, just from changing drives alone. And that's the slowest 15k drive currently on the market. Ok, enough of my SCSI-fanboy ranting already...

Don't concern yourself with what the AnandTech crowd might or might not think of your plans or goals. Everyone has his own needs. I was running my Athlon64 with 1GB of RAM and dual 15000rpm SCSI drives, combined with a Radeon 7500, and darned if I care whether anyone things it's imbalanced. I didn't build it for them It's now up to a Radeon 9200 simply because I wanted to try some video capture from my dad's camcorder and I found a $50 Radeon 9200 that has video-in/video-out at Newegg.