Newbie help creating first time backup routine

[24958]

I'd like to learn to come up with a backup routine. I have only done manual files drag and drop to a small USB flash drive before. Anyone care to baby steps walk me through what I need to do?

First step I guess is to buy an external hard drive. Anything particular I need to know there? Just buy the largest one I can afford like 3 TB+ or are there concerns with larger drives? Do I need to buy the same size drive as the one I will be backing up from (in order to create a clone or image - not sure what it is called)?

Once I have the external hard drive, how do I go about creating a clone or image of my drive so I can just copy that back over if I ever need to (eg. computer hard drive failure, malware issues, etc.)? Is there special software to use in Windows, have to buy it in addition to an external hard drive, comes with the hard drive?

Last question I can think of. If the external hard drive I purchase is larger than the one I would create the clone of, can I use the extra space to manually backup select files or folders regularly, so that I could have both a full clone to restore if need be as well as individual saved files or folders backed up, or can the external hard drive only be used for either a clone of my full Windows installation to restore if needed or manually backed up files but not both?

 

[Gunbuster]

What OS are you running?

Do you need bare metal restore, or just files backed up?

 

[24958]

Windows 8. Although, if I can backup two different images to one external hard drive, Windows 7 also.

I don't know what the term bare metal restore means. Ideally, I'd like to create a complete clone of my computer, that could be restored in cases of hard drive failure on my computer or if I ever got a virus or malware where it is advised to just wipe the drive and start over, as well as backup individual files and folders regularly. And then, if I could do the same for another computer on the same external hard drive, do the same for another family members computer (laptop).

 

[Gunbuster]

You can use the built in File History feature to backup files and folders.

 

[inachu]

The most easiest brain dead no learning curve way to back your pc up is to use norton ghost. The backup in windows(any version) is not 100% all the time but the most fault tolerant is Norton Ghost for a complete clone.

 

[24958]

Don't overestimate my knowledge or comfort level with this activity. I am hoping someone can point me in the direction of a basic walk through on what I can expect as well as what is needed.

I tried to do a general internet search on windows 8 backup image and read, to me, what seems like multiple methods of doing so with each either expanding on what I read on one site or contradicting or including additional info that wasn't in one location. I am hoping someone can help lead me down the correct patch so I don't end up making a costly mistake at some later point thinking I had a useful backup only to find I lost everything.

For example, I read on one site saying to use some hidden Windows 8 backup tool to create an image. Then I read on another site saying that only allows one image per hard drive meaning I wouldn't be able to create a backup image for two computers nor be able to do manual file or folder backups on one external hard drive. So that means one would need at least three individual external hard drives in order create a backup image for 2 computers and another to be able to backup files and folders?

Then I also read a part saying that because my computer had Windows 8 and Windows 7 pre-installed from the manufacturer that it means that even if I had created a backup image that I wouldn't actually be able to ever restore it since it needs an installation disc from the manufacturer to allow one to restore the image which no longer comes with retail purchased PCs.

And then another saying creating a backup image isn't enough because one also has to create a restore disc or else that backup image won't work.

Here is what I'd like to accomplish. Even a link to trustworthy site that would have all the necessary steps in a simple to follow order and any caveats I should know is appreciated. I don't want to find myself wasting money buying the wrong hard drive or software only to find out when it is too late that there was some free software that I could have used, bought the wrong size hard drive for my usage, or created a backup thinking I was safe only to eventually need it and find out I did something wrong or overlooked something and lose everything.

* Want to create a backup image from Windows 8 from time to time that could be used in case my PC experienced a hard drive failure or needed to have everything restored due to something like a virus. That way I could copy over a recent backup image and be mostly entirely back up and running in short order without starting from scratch. Hard drive size I think is 2 TB for this.

* Want to do the same for a Windows 7 computer with a hard drive size I think of 500 GB.

* Want to also be able to manually backup individual files and folders from time to time from both the Windows 8 and Windows 7 computers. I would do this more regularly than creating a full backup image, say monthly.

* Would like to be able to do the above using one backup hard drive. I am thinking either 3 TB or 4TB.

Is that doable? What program is to be used to accomplish (preferably free)? Is there a site or guide one can give or point me to? Or is it better to just forget creating a full image backup and just manually backup individual files and folders (though that would mean having to reinstall all programs and settings entirely from scratch if my main hard drive died or got some damaging virus correct)? Thank you.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

I'd break the job into 2 pieces:

1: backup of Windows installation. I'd use imaging to do that. I would NOT use Windows built-in Backup. I'd use Macrium or maybe Aomei. That would make an image file. You save that image file to some other drive entirely, probably external. You'd need to make a "recovery disk" aka "rescue disk" to boot from in the event your internal drive goes bad. You boot from the rescue disk, which takes you to your imaging application interface, where you then locate your previously made image file and direct its restoration to your internal hard drive.

The rescue disk is made (burned) from within the imaging application's interface. You have to confirm for an absolute fact that it will boot your PC. If it won't, you can't restore your image files.

Image files aren't "copied" to become usable. You have to go through a "restoration" process by booting from rescue media. Image files are just that--a file. Store them like data. They become usable and bootable partitions only when restored.

You'd have to make an image of C and any other partition that may contain boot files. Some PCs have boot files on a System Reserved partition. Others, like mine, have boot files on C. You can include both partitions in a single image file, or make an image file of each.

I create images once a month and keep the most recent 2. If your system has major changes weekly, maybe you make weekly images.

Macrium is a commonly used app for this and it makes image files that are roughly half the size of the occupied space on the partitions represented by the image file. Takes maybe 5 to 30 minutes, depending on size. Restoration might take a half hour.


Imaging isn't foolproof, so have a plan B, typically a clean install.

2: backup of personal data. Imaging can do this, but since imaging isn't extremely reliable, I'd use a third party "file by file" backup program that avoids the complication of imaging. There's many that work, most of them free downloads. I use FreeFileSync. These programs just automate the file backup process. You can include or exclude by folder, by file name, by file extension, etc. You can set them up so that your data is exactly replicated--the backup is identical to the original. Or you can set them up so that if you delete File X from your originals, File X is NOT deleted from the backup.

You could use a single external for all of this. The image files you make should be stored as data on your original drive and then backed up like any other valuable piece of data. I'd just use a single partition. A 3 TB drive would be fine assuming your motherboard supports it. You'd have to make a GPT partition to use all of that space.

It might be to your advantage to have your original data on a different partition than your Windows installation. That would reduce the occupied space on C. The image files would be smaller and quicker to make.

 

[Charlie98]

What are your storage specs? How big is your OS drive and how much data in GB is in use; and do you have a separate data drive(s)?

Personally, I have an OS drive with all my programs on it, and a separate internal drive (actually 2) for my data files (media, mostly, and backup images... ) and an external drive (actually 3) for backup images.

What I do: I have all my normal files and program backups (like QuickBooks and iPhone) copied by drag-n-drop on all my backup drives. Every night I make a complete, full backup image of my main OS drive (a 256GB SSD with 145GB used) using Acronis, to all my hooked up backup drives (the two internal HDDs and usually two external HDDs.) The backup images are around 135GB each, so a 2TB drive will easily hold a weeks worth of full backup images, plus any files I have stored there separately. I also make a full image at the beginning of each month and keep it, that way if my OS is corrupt, and the images are corrupt, I can at least go back to the beginning of the month (hopefully before the corruption occurred...) and mount that image.

Why do I do this? Because I have lost my OS drive... but with a full Acronis image, I put a new SSD in, mounted the image with the Acronis rescue disk I made previously, and was back in business in about 20 minutes. No kidding.

For you OP, depending on what size data you are trying to backup, I suggest getting a HDD installed internally, and a portable USB external HDD. Why a portable USB external? Because you can quickly unhook it and store it easily, because it powers off of the USB cable (no separate power cord,) and, in my experience, they run cooler than full-sized external HDDs. Using an imaging utility like Acronis (and, if you have a Western Digital hard drive in your PC, you can download a free copy of Acronis at the WD website) make a full-sized image to both of the backup hard drives every night. If you expect severe weather or will be away from the house for a time, unhook the portable drive and store it away from the computer or take it with you... all the backup images in the world won't help you if they are lost or stolen, that's the real benefit to a portable hard drive.

 

[24958]

A 3 TB drive would be fine assuming your motherboard supports it. You'd have to make a GPT partition to use all of that space.

Thank you for all of that.

How can I find out how many TB my motherboard would support? And is a GPT partition something special I would have to do or would those programs know to do it for me?

What are your storage specs? How big is your OS drive and how much data in GB is in use; and do you have a separate data drive(s)?

Laptop has a 600GB drive. The C partition is ~576 GB with less than a 100GB used. It has two others with one called recovery and the other tools.

The desktop I can't really tell for certain. File explorer only shows C which is 1.8 TB with 1.75 free but disk manager shows 4 others. An OEM, EFI and two recovery partitions. Those are 2 500 MB, 40 MB and 13 GB.

I keep very little so I mostly want it in case something happens so I can just be fully back up and running with little hassle and having to spend time with settings and things. I figure a monthly image backup will help me there and then I can just save individual files that may change from time to time.

Given my basic needs, I like the idea of one external drive that I can just plug in monthly when doing the updated image and whenever I update individual files. I don't have anything important enough that I need it to be connected all the time so can save some wear and tear on an external.

Took me awhile to find it but I have a Seagate. Not sure what the laptop has (couldn't find it).

So, basically, I can buy any size external that I want/can afford. Then use one of the programs like Ghost, Macrium or maybe Aomei, or Acronis (any free?). Those will walk me through creating an image for the desktop and laptop, which can both be saved on the same external drive.

I will also need to create a recovery/rescue DVD and make sure it boots up the computer rather than assuming it does so. I need to create a different one for the desktop and laptop?

Then I can manually backup files and folders over to the same external drive as needed.

Is that about the extent of it? Will all of that be scared idiot proof or does one know of a reliable walk through guide online that I can refer to?

Thank you.

 

[Charlie98]

If your C drive has less than 100GB, and your data drive has what amounts to a thimble of data, I would recommend a 256GB SSD for everything... put it all on there. Use your leftover 600GB HDD as an internal backup drive (it would hold, say, 4 full backup copies) and get an external portable drive for your additional backups.

The reason I stress the internal backup is you can set Acronis to run every night and just keep the last 3 or 4 backups, it will take care of everything for you.... and you don't have to worry about having the portable hooked up or anything. I have 5 computers set for automatic backups and they work very well. And then you can drag n drop your current files as you feel the need on the D drive as a redundant backup, and to the external when it's hooked up.

Seagate has a free version of Acronis, but they call it something different... Dashboard I believe. In any event, Acronis can be picked up for around $20 on sale, and you will have the full-boat program, which has a lot of useful tools on it besides the backup.

As far as an external backup... I think I have over 22K hours on my original Seagate portable, a 500GB drive that I hammer mercilessly. It has 8 bad sectors, even, because I pulled the cord when it was writing (this was before I know now what I didn't know then about computer hardware...) but it still soldiers on. Don't worry about sparing wear and tear on your drives.

Computer>C Drive>Properties>Hardware ...your drive should be listed in there, and it will either tell you outright what kind it is, or give a model number... post it here and we can tell you what you have. My HTPC has a WD drive in it, so I use the free version of Acronis, for example. It would save you a bit of hassle.

You can also download CrystalDiskInfo for free and it will give you all the information available about your hard drives and what shape they are in, including total hours and any errors.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

So, basically, I can buy any size external that I want/can afford. Then use one of the programs like Ghost, Macrium or maybe Aomei, or Acronis (any free?). Those will walk me through creating an image for the desktop and laptop, which can both be saved on the same external drive.

I will also need to create a recovery/rescue DVD and make sure it boots up the computer rather than assuming it does so. I need to create a different one for the desktop and laptop?

Then I can manually backup files and folders over to the same external drive as needed.

Is that about the extent of it? Will all of that be scared idiot proof or does one know of a reliable walk through guide online that I can refer to?

Thank you.

NONE of this is idiot proof. It could all fail badly. You need to know what you will do if it does. That's typically a clean install.

All imaging can do for you is save you the time required to do a clean install and reconfiguration of programs. There's nothing magical or foolproof about it. It's "reliable" but not "highly reliable" by my definition. It's worth a try. If it fails, the world stays on its axis and you take the necessary hours to do a clean install.

Here's a good tutorial on Macrium:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/73828-imaging-free-macrium.html


A few points:

You'd need to look at the motherboard details at the laptop and desktop manufacturer's web site for your particular model to determine the maximum external drive size they will support. I don't use externals, so don't know the details. I'd think any recent machine should support at least 2 TB drives. You've got so little to back up that a 2 TB drive might be fine.

You need to be positive to make an image of any partition containing boot files on both machines. You've got OEM machines and they can put boot files in odd places. You say you have an EFI partition on one PC---that's likely to have boot files.

What partitions on each machine are marked as "system" when viewed in Windows Disk Management?

You should be able to make "recovery" disks on each machine that will allow you to restore them to factory specs. This is NOT the same as your imaging and backup plan, but is a good idea anyway. And you should also be able to restore both machines to factory specs by using the OEM or tools or recovery partitions that you mention. Consult your documentation or the manufacturer's web site.

You can also make separate images of these OEM, tools, and recovery partitions if you think you might want to restore them at some later date--even though they may not be needed to get Windows restored.

You want to backup 2 different machines, so you'd need to be able to boot both of them with your rescue disk. That's a key issue. It may be that one disk will boot both machines, but I wouldn't count on that due to differences in drivers. You may have to make a rescue disk for each.

If you use Macrium, you have a choice of making a Linux-based rescue disk or a WinPE based rescue disk. The latter is much preferred and is less likely to have boot issues.

The Aomei program you need to look at is called something like "Backupper". I think it can also back up your data files without using an image. Both it and Macrium are free.

Here's the free version of Macrium:

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx


Here's free Aomei Backupper:

http://www.aomeitech.com/download.html

 

[Charlie98]

NONE of this is idiot proof. It could all fail badly. You need to know what you will do if it does. That's typically a clean install.

I don't agree. With a proper backup image you should be able to mount that image on a proper drive and resume where the image left off. I know, I speak from experience... and this was without using a 'rescue disk' in both instances, just the factory Acronis disk mounting a full backup image.

You need to be positive to make an image of any partition containing boot files on both machines. You've got OEM machines and they can put boot files in odd places. You say you have an EFI partition on one PC---that's likely to have boot files.

That is, however, a good point. On factory/OEM boxes I actually wipe the disk and reinstall the OS clean from a MS disk... it allows me to control the partitions and not load the bloatware commonly found on prebuilt boxes... but that's just me. This is why I also suggest making a full backup image of the entire OS drive, not just the C drive partition, etc., and why I put everything on one drive (aside from media files and stuff like that.)