Newbie building a gaming mATX rig

[paperkut]

Hi guys,

So I've decided my XPS m1530 laptop just doesn't cut it for me in gaming anymore and I think I'm going to sell it off to raise money for this PC build (and also maybe a netbook).

I've been reading around the forum and it appears you can get a pretty solid gaming PC using a microATX board. After a bit of research I've narrowed it down to these specs:

Final Specs

Case: Antek NSK3480
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811129035

PSU: Corsair 650W ATX12V
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817139005

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128342

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 920
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103472

RAM: G.Skill 4GB PC6400 (DDR2-800) RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231209

GPU: XFX GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 896MB GDDR3 (Combo with HDD)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814150329

HDD: Combo Deal: GTX 260 + Seagate 640GB

DVD: LG 22X DVD Burner
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16827136152

LCD: Acer X223Wbd Black 22"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824009145

MISC

Keyboard: Rosewill RK-7310 - $15
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16823201031

Wireless: ENCORE 802.11b/g, IEEE 802.11n Draft 2.0 PCI - $25
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16833180052

Cooler: ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835186134

I've got several concerns I'm hoping you guys can address:

1. I've never built a PC myself before but I've seen it done and feel pretty confident in being able to do it myself. However, alot of people say it gets pretty difficult with this case (Lanbox lite), but what do you think? A tiny form factor means everything to me but I don't want it overheating either. Can I make it work with this case?

2. Are my motherboard/processor/cpu/gpu/psu choices good i.e. are they compatible? Also, I really don't know about the motherboard. Am I correct in assuming I need a PCI-E 2.0 x16 slot? (I ask because I read posts about people using regular PCI-E x16 slots with high end cards, so I'm confused about that).

4. As of now, the only game I seriously play is UT3. I know this system is adequate, but if possible I want to cut back on my costs a bit more. If you could suggest some cheaper alternative hardware I'd really appreciate it, but keep in mind I'd like this system to last as long as possible.

I realize my questions are pretty lengthy, but I am somewhat confused right now. I'd really really appreciate it if you could take some time to answer!

 

[Blain]

Don't lock yourself into a micro-ATX form factor.

 

[paperkut]

Well, not the response I was expecting, lol.

Why not though? You can get a perfectly good gaming rig with mATX by not having all the bells and whistles. I'm perfectly content with those parts and it seems perfect for a portable gaming rig, not to mention I hardly have any space in this cluttered apartment for a full ATX tower.

If you can overlook that, I'd still really appreciate your advice!

 

[AVP]

None of your links work by the way. This might not actually be helpful but with a small case I might shoot for a videocard that exhausts the hot air out, something with a dual slot cooling solution. Just a thought.

The choices you made seem fine, looks like you did good research. Though for $200 cpu I would consider going AMD for the Phenom II 920, similar performance but only for $135, found here : http://forums.anandtech.com/me...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Also there is the option of going q9400 instead of the q6600. They are very similar but I guess there are some tradeoffs. Don't know enough but if you have a Microcenter near you they are $180 - here

 

[paperkut]

Whoops, links are fixed now.

AVP, so you'd recommend something like the 4850 then? Would this still be better than the 9800 GTX+?

I think I could save quite a bit of money by going with 4850, a Phenom, and AMD motherboard. I'm not sure though, how well do these parts overclock? Also, I think the processor should be adequate since most games only need a C2D anyway, and a quad core should futureproof it well..

Also, I'm still wondering about PCI-E 2.0 x16 vs PCI-E x16. Which type of slot of needed for which card?

EDIT: Well, after spec'ing it out with the Phenom, an Asus AMD mobo and a 4850, I end up saving about $106. Are the downgrades worth it? Well, I suppose in a sense they're necessary due to the heat.. but I dunno.

 

[thecrecarc]

Personally, I would get a Phenom II 920 for its similar performance and cheaper price, and stick with the 4870 as your GPU. Overclocking will probably be limited inside a MATX case anyways because of the heat so I'd advise against it, but they should run well stock. If you choose not to OC, you could just stick with the stock cooler, and take the money you saved and the money from switching to Phenom and get the 1gb version of the 4870.

Also, your monitor is a bit small for the power your packing, so I'd also recommend a larger monitor, perhaps http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824236050 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824009163

 

[gorobei]

parts are ok for a midrange gaming build. you could probably drop the psu to a 500watt model to cut costs.

there is no way you are going to get a AC freezerpro in that lanbox. the lanbox has the psu above the cpu area, limiting overall cooler height to roughly 110mm. that means stock intel sink or zalman8700(or whatever model. which doesnt cool any better than stock) also, the 2x60mm fans usually mean more noise.

the intel option is generally better if you ever want to transfer it to a newer non-uatx case. cooling and OC wise, the newer q9xxx cpus are the better choice. it gives you more flexibility later on. pricewise the amd is better.

 

[AVP]

Which mobo did you pick? Phenom II are compatible with AM2+ and there are good options in the $70 range.

Also for a dual slot cooler you can go with this 260gtx + hdd combo. The gtx 260 is roughly on par with what AMD offers for the price. It really is a toss up, both are great, but this combo deal is tough to beat. Credit to kkmmatney
pci-e 2.0 is backwards compatible with 1.0 and does not make any performance difference. If you are stricking with that 19" Hanns G (there is nothing wrong with that!) then a 4850/4870 shouldn't be too big of a change.

Here is a comparison


**edit actually there are some 10-20fps jumps that occur at max settings between the 4850 and the other two at 1280x1024 the closest resolution to yours. Just a thought.

 

[paperkut]

Oh man, choices choices.

I believe the Phenom 920 is the best bang for the buck right now, that $135 deal is a steal. I've also picked out a GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2 to go with it. What do you guys think?

gorobei, you're right, a freezer pro would never fit in this case, but I was talking to a friend who has a qpack2 and he uses a Zalman 7700 in his case. I'm guessing this cooler too is also a no-go for me? It'd be nice to have a non-stock cooler since I'd like to OC this Phenom in the future (to say 3.3Ghz). Also, I think I'll stick with the 650W PSU since the Corsair 550W is going for the exact same price :O

AVP, the HD 4870 is also dual slot cooling, is it not? Also, I was looking at some benches and the 4870 appears to outdo the gtx 260. That combo deal is definitely sweet, but it also applies to the 1GB 4870! (total turns out to $205 vs $230 with the gtx 260). GTX 260 is also a behemoth so I'm not sure if it'd fit all that well in this case. :/

thecrecarc, I'm somewhat reluctant to go to a higher resolution screen. I'm used to gaming at 1440x900 on my 15.4" but perhaps this point is moot since the Hans G is 19". I'm guessing its the dot pitch that matters? (I calculated my laptop's dot pitch to be at around 0.230mm, but the only screens that come close are WSXGA+ at 19" )

 

[thecrecarc]

Originally posted by: paperkut
Oh man, choices choices.

I believe the Phenom 920 is the best bang for the buck right now, that $135 deal is a steal. I've also picked out a GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2 to go with it. What do you guys think?

gorobei, you're right, a freezer pro would never fit in this case, but I was talking to a friend who has a qpack2 and he uses a Zalman 7700 in his case. I'm guessing this cooler too is also a no-go for me? It'd be nice to have a non-stock cooler since I'd like to OC this Phenom in the future (to say 3.3Ghz). Also, I think I'll stick with the 650W PSU since the Corsair 550W is going for the exact same price

AVP, the HD 4870 is also dual slot cooling, is it not? Also, I was looking at some benches and the 4870 appears to outdo the gtx 260. That combo deal is definitely sweet, but it also applies to the 1GB 4870! (total turns out to $205 vs $230 with the gtx 260). GTX 260 is also a behemoth so I'm not sure if it'd fit all that well in this case. :/

thecrecarc, I'm somewhat reluctant to go to a higher resolution screen. I'm used to gaming at 1440x900 on my 15.4" but perhaps this point is moot since the Hans G is 19". I'm guessing its the dot pitch that matters? (I calculated my laptop's dot pitch to be at around 0.230mm, but the only screens that come close are WSXGA+ at 19" )

For what it's worth, I have a Ultra Microfly Matx case. And although stock runs fine, OC-ing is somewhat difficult for the temperatures I am getting. Again, if I were you I'd not buy coolers you planning on buying and stick with the stock cooler, and instead spend the money on better components. You also get the peace of mind that the stock cooler will 100% guarantee fit inside.
Also, make sure about the dimensions of your case. In my Microfly case, I cannot use any GPU which has the auxiliary power connections pointed up, as newer Nvidia cards tend to have them. You do not want to buy a component only to realize it didn't fit!
Finally, a 4870 is plenty powerful for higher resolutions, 1440x900 is quite low. However, it all falls down to personal preference.

 

[paperkut]

Well after doing some more research it appears that Zalman 7700 WILL fit inside the lanbox I really want to keep the option of overclocking open so I think buying a cooler is a good choice. I've done quite a bit of research at this point and I can say with good confidence that everything will fit

I still wonder about the motherboard though (GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2, its gotten good reviews on newegg but should I be looking at a different mobo to suit "gaming"?

Still hunting for the perfect LCD. Would most of you agree that 1920x1200 (or 1920x1080) is too high to enjoy COD4/UT3 and other intensive games at high frame rates (>70fps)?

Thanks for the replies thus far, I really appreciate all the input you guys have given me!

EDIT: I'm really liking the Acer X193W+BD 19" 1680x1050 LCD. This seems like a really good pixel pitch to what I'm used to. The 21" and up screens just start getting too expensive, but I think this resolution and screen size is a good in between.

 

[Zap]

Welcome to Anandtech Forums, paperkut.

Don't let the doubters scare you away from micro ATX. If you are concerned about heat and being able to use a bigger heatsink, consider a mini tower. I have an Antec NSK3480 which is 14"x14"x8" while the Thermaltake LANBOX Lite you choose is 17"x12"x9" (specs according to Newegg). The volume of the NSK3480 is around 1570 cubic inches, while the volume of the LANBOX is 1840 cubic inches. As you can see, while the LANBOX visually looks smaller because it isn't as tall, it is actually a bigger case than the NSK3480.

I wanted to point this out because I currently have my gaming rig in an NSK3480. It comes with a 120mm exhaust fan and is capable of a few 92mm intake fans (optional). I'm running a GTX 260 in there. I'm not overclocking my CPU because I have an Intel brand motherboard (no overclocking) but there is a TON of room for pretty much any of the tower heatpipe heatsinks, so CPU cooling is not an issue. About the only real limitation is that the power supply can't be deeper than around 150mm or so.

There are also some other micro ATX cases which can fit big video cards as well as big power supplies. Some examples are the Cooler Master Centurion 541 and the Apevia X-QBOII. They use the same internal chassis (with different looks obviously). The Apevia looks more pimp, but the Cooler Master may have better ventilation. These cases are around 15.5"x16.5"x7" with around 1790 cubic inches of volume, making them also smaller than the LANBOX. I did a build in the Cooler Master once with a Corsair 750W PSU and a 9800 GTX (same size as GTX 260/280/285/295). You will lose the floppy drive bays when using a big video card (two screws to remove the bays internally), but will still have two optical drive bays and two hard drive bays.

The Arctic Cooling Freezer would fit the NSK3480 fine. I'm not positive about the Cooler Master/Apevia though, but it would be close.

 

[paperkut]

Wow that Lanbox Lite is one deceiving little (or should I say BIG) case. I rather like the NSK3480 though. The Apevia Qpack2 is another popular case and its even smaller than the NSK3480 in terms of volume, but the looks just don't do it for me.

I think I'm leaning more towards the NSK3480 now

Also, after looking at more benchmarks the GTX 260 Core 216 appears to edge out the 4870 in terms of performance and it also runs cooler, so I will indeed go with that instead

So $35 extra and I get the Antec case and GTX 260 instead, that brings me $800 shipped without the LCD.

I'd still love to hear what you guys think about the Mobo.

 

[gorobei]

if you are going the mini tower antec, then cooling shouldnt be a problem. the zalman 7700 is an almost ancient model, no heatpipes and uses the orb fin array. cant remember what site had a review of it and the 8700, but they had little to no benefit in OC or cooling over the stock intel. about the only thing that was better was they were less noisy. with the nsk3480 you might as well go back to the AC Fz0


if you want to try the xqpak with OC, here's my version from a year ago:
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=37&threadid=2172962
it does fine for tf2/l4d/cod4. havent oc'd it yet. it'll need more intake venting for that.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: paperkut
I think I'm leaning more towards the NSK3480 now

With this case definately get a better cooler than the Zalman 7700.

Also with this case, I'm not sure the Corsair PSU will fit. My build uses an Antec TruePower Trio 430W, which is 5.5" deep. I think I have around 1" between the PSU and the optical drive. The Corsair is 5.9" deep. I had to plug in the optical drive before sliding it back and screwing it into place. It might help if you use right-angle power/data connectors.

I've never used that mobo so I can't comment.

 

[paperkut]

Oh crap, I certainly hope it'll fit since I just ordered the parts. You said you have 1" left, making 6.5" of space, so it SHOULD fit right?

I also hear the space is limited for the optical drive, I bought an LG 22X Burner, do you think it'll fit?

I also went with gorobei's suggestion and bought the Freezer 7 Pro. Also, I was too late and ended up losing $20 on the Phenom 920

Edit: Posted my final specs in the first post. I still think I can make changes to the order if needed, but that window is closing fast.

 

[Zap]

I'm not familiar with the LG drive but if it is fairly short then it should work. Again, the trick is to have the drive slid out a bit so that it is protruding out the front of the computer, then plug in the cables, then slide it the rest of the way in before putting the screws in. Oh yeah, the case has vents in the top cover, so you should install the power supply with the fan facing UPWARDS, not downwards. In fact, if you face the fan down then the PSU will get no air whatsoever because the PSU/optical area is a completely separate compartment.

Hmmm, I have my gaming rig in the garage and I have a spare Corsair 650W PSU. I should see how the fit is.

I'll be back...


EDIT: I'm back.

I took the top off my NSK3480 and set my Corsair 650W on top of the PSU area and measured... there is around 7/8" between it and the Samsung optical drive, so looks like a really tight fit but it will probably work. Again, use angled connectors when possible.

Further notes: I have two HDDs in mine. The NSK3480 has one HDD mount on the bottom of the case and one in the second optical drive bay. Because it doesn't fill the whole optical drive bay, I used the extra space around it to hold unused PSU cables. I am concerned that this spot doesn't get a whole lot of ventilation, but I don't have an easy solution for that. The bottom HDD of course gets tons of cooling especially if you populate the front fan spots.

 

[paperkut]

Great, that puts me at ease. I really appreciate your time.

Hmm, since I'm only using one HDD then I guess I could use that entire second optical drive area for cables. I've read cabling is a nightmare on this case but since I'm using up every inch of available space then I'm happy.

Monitor and case arrive tomorrow, rest of the parts come in on Friday! I'll post pictures of the completed PC when I'm done

 

[paperkut]

Well, I just realized the Ac7 freezer isn't compatible with AM2 sockets. I knew I just had to go mess something up lol

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: paperkut
Well, I just realized the Ac7 freezer isn't compatible with AM2 sockets. I knew I just had to go mess something up lol

DOH!

FWIW it is the Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro that you want.

Check out this thread. Not 100% sure it will fit, but if it does, it is better than the Freezer.

Ah well, at least you get a stock fan/heatsink with the CPU.