New York Becomes Only State to Offer Free Four-Year College Tuition

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Feb 16, 2005
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What is Cuomo going to do to create jobs for these people? Is this a program based on a hope that if you educate them the jobs will come? Sure seems like it.

This is little more than political feel-good bullshit. The kind that appeals greatly to people that can't think any further ahead than the next 20 minutes. It's too damned hard to figure out what people are going to do for a living but by golly, we can sure as shit have the taxpayers pay for their education. It's just a variation on more bread and circuses.
Yea, people striving for a college degree are notoriously short sighted and rarely think more than 20 mins down the road :rolleyes:
Maybe those obtaining business degrees or degrees in science can, you know, create jobs. I mean, that's what american ideology is all about, right? Create your own destiny, reach for the stars and all that?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Yea, people striving for a college degree are notoriously short sighted and rarely think more than 20 mins down the road :rolleyes:
Maybe those obtaining business degrees or degrees in science can, you know, create jobs. I mean, that's what american ideology is all about, right? Create your own destiny, reach for the stars and all that?

Remember, just yesterday he informed us all that we were idiots for thinking the Great Barrier Reef was dying because he read an article where a Great Barrier Reef diving tour company said everything was great. We aren't exactly dealing with a monumental intellect here.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
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I hold a 2 year degree. As someone who couldn't afford 4 year, and didn't want to be buried in debt, I didn't pursue a 4 year.

I can say that if I held a 4 year, there would be more opportunity for me.

As a young man with no guidance in these matters, I didn't see the long game clearly.

I hope my state does this, I would get a 4 year, make more money, and that would increase my tax contribution.

This program has merit, but haters gonna hate
 

Mandres

Senior member
Jun 8, 2011
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I'm still curious about the fine print here. Does the grant cover room & board? What happens if the student doesn't complete the degree? Are the universities barred from immediately quadrupling the size of their incoming freshman class to capture the additional revenue?

Without these (and every other) questions asked and answered ahead of time this program seems to be begging for fraud, waste and abuse.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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I'm still curious about the fine print here. Does the grant cover room & board? What happens if the student doesn't complete the degree? Are the universities barred from immediately quadrupling the size of their incoming freshman class to capture the additional revenue?

Without these (and every other) questions asked and answered ahead of time this program seems to be begging for fraud, waste and abuse.

It's not like Europe has major issues with fraud/runaway costs, afaik. Of course, many European nations graduate fewer students per capita than the USA, despite our universities being the best in the world, so it's not like free education even directly translates into more education. Hopefully, NY will keep its standards just as high (if not raising them to compensate for increased demand).
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
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What is Cuomo going to do to create jobs for these people? Is this a program based on a hope that if you educate them the jobs will come? Sure seems like it.
I've been working minimum wage customer service jobs for most of my life and get foodstamps and subsidized healthcare and dental. I'm going to study to be a RN starting in the Fall at JCC. I'm hopeful that the jobs will come upon graduation. :) I'm going to find steady work and start paying taxes, all without need of any welfare and little to no debt!!

Truly, a Conservative nightmare.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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There is a lot of data out there concluding higher education benefits society as a whole. Most of the original research is behind paywalls, but here are just a few from more mainstream sources.

https://www.csuohio.edu/sites/default/files/The Benefits Of Higher Education.pdf
https://www.hispanicoutlook.com/ang...igher-education-benefits-students-and-society
https://www.oecd.org/education/skills-beyond-school/EDIF 2013--N°10 (eng)--v9 FINAL bis.pdf
http://www.colorado.edu/today/1999/11/10/society-benefits-college-educated-citizens

Furthermore, it doesn't matter if decreasing the barrier-to-entry decreases the net benefit to society of the average graduate so long as decreasing the barrier-to-entry improves conditions for society as a whole. While I don't think we need to push for college educating 100% of the population, I do think we need to make college education affordable for those that want to pursue it. Just as an example. Right now our country is facing a significant teacher shortage. One of the problems is that teacher pay is too low to allow for the student debt many would be teachers accumulate obtaining their education. Now there are some programs in place to help accommodate this issue, but students have to know about these programs to make use of them. This creates a significant barrier for attracting teachers. There is a significant amount of latent talent in the US population that remains untapped right now simply because the individual comes from a background that disadvantages them within our current system. All the special programs work well for those familiar with the system, but for those that aren't, the cost of a college education can be a real detriment.

Most of this is vague correlation. College doesn't make you live longer, it makes you educated which decreases the odds of working a dangerous/labor-intensive job. There's the question of whether people that want to be educated also want to vote more, or if education causes those that don't ordinarily want to vote actually vote more. Despite exploding numbers of college degrees, voter turnout has been completely flat since the 1930s. Rather than requiring an elementary school teacher to have attend six years of college, we could simply reduce the barrier to entry.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
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Well now the catch 22 comes out and now we find out free isn't so free and some are complaining about it, some even comparing it to some sort of involuntary confinement, looks like quite a few were planning to take the money, oops , EDUCATION and run while New Yorkers get stuck with the bill, thanks to the "me first corporate mentality" that our secondary schools are indoctrinating into today's generation of students.

Guess civic duty and giving back to the community that helped you out aren't as popular today.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/york-lawmakers-approve-free-middle-class-college-tuition-46698833
"
"There's a big string attached to New York's free middle-class college tuition initiative: Students must stay in the state after graduation or else pay back the benefit.

Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Monday that the requirement was added to protect the state's investment in a student's education by ensuring they don't take advantage of free tuition and then leave New York. The rule wasn't a part of Cuomo's free college tuition proposal when he unveiled it in January but was inserted during final negotiations with lawmakers over the state budget, which was approved Sunday.

The tuition initiative, which Cuomo said is a national model, covers state college or university tuition for in-state students from families earning $125,000 or less. Students must remain in New York for as many years as they received the benefit. They must repay the money as a loan if they take a job in another state.


"Why should New Yorkers pay for your college education and then you pick up and you move to California?" Cuomo said during a call with state editorial writers. "The concept of investing in you and your education is that you're going to stay here and be an asset to the state. If you don't want to stay here, then go to California now, let them pay for your college education."


Students at University at Albany, part of the state university system, aren't so sure.

"I don't know how much I like feeling confined, even to staying in the state for four more years," said Bobby Rickard, an 18-year-old freshman from Brewster who has not yet decided his major. "I don't know what life will have for me."

Cumorah Reed, a 19-year-old English major, said certain technology jobs are concentrated on the West Coast and many of her classmates will be surprised to learn they will not be able to apply for those positions immediately after graduation.

"I think it's going to be harder than people think," Reed said.

Ashley Mendez, 18, a journalism and communications major, said the proposal is a fair compromise because many residents will stay anyway.

"I'm a New Yorker. I wouldn't leave the state for anything," Mendez said.

Sara Goldrick-Rab, a Temple University professor who studies college affordability, said the requirement undercuts the promise of free tuition and could deliver a nasty shock to students who fail to read the fine print, or who take the money believing they will stay in New York, only to find better job opportunities elsewhere.

"It's absolutely bait and switch," she said. "You entice people with something they really, really need and then you penalize them if they can't find a decent job and have to leave."

Republican lawmakers pushed for the requirement during closed-door state budget negotiations.

"We took the governor's original plan and made it better, by requiring students to maintain a certain GPA and to live and work in New York after they graduate," said Scott Reif, a spokesman for the Senate's Republican leadership.

Students who receive free tuition and then leave the state for an advanced degree won't have to pay the money back assuming they return to New York once they complete their graduate studies. State officials also plan to make accommodations for graduates who leave the state for military service.

As part of the budget, lawmakers also approved a new tuition assistance program for students at private colleges and universities that offers up to $3,000 in tuition grants. That assistance also comes with a requirement that a student remain in New York after graduation for the same number of years they received the benefit."


Holy crap. That sounds like a huge liability bubble in the making
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
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Most of this is vague correlation. College doesn't make you live longer, it makes you educated which decreases the odds of working a dangerous/labor-intensive job. There's the question of whether people that want to be educated also want to vote more, or if education causes those that don't ordinarily want to vote actually vote more. Despite exploding numbers of college degrees, voter turnout has been completely flat since the 1930s. Rather than requiring an elementary school teacher to have attend six years of college, we could simply reduce the barrier to entry.

Unlike some people here (not saying you) I don't believe that being college educated makes you a better voter, more insightful voter, more informed voter, etc. Some people cling to this as though its factual, when it is not.

As far as this goes, I like that NY wants to keep them there after the fact for the same amount of years. Seems fair to me.