New year...new machine....for real this time.

[futura65]

I have found myself working out of town most of this year, and never got around to building this machine I had planned to at the beginning of this year. http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2129824&highlight=futura65
Since a year has past, I now seriously need to build a new workstation, but also need to revamp my original plan (possibly) to reflect new tech, such as Sandy vs Gulf on the processors. I've been looking at things haven't seemed to change much. I almost feel like I could build the same machine (just cheaper) but with a year having passed felt like there must be some new better options out there.

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
Workstation, I use AutoCAD, Studio Max, Adobe (everything) and video editing. I'm running multiple heavy programs at any given time.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

I spent a few grand on the Dell laptop I have summer of 2010, so I'm ok with putting down some money, but it won't be for $1500 cpu's and 3k video cards....so let's say 3k max, but cheaper won't hurt my feelings. I think 2k + is realistic

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

USA

4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.

I need to stick with Intel and NVIDIA for software reasons. I used Segate and WD and just look for bang for buck in hard drives.


5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

Nope...old machine is old.

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.
This was a thread from the machine I was going to build to replace my old workstation from LAST December.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2129824&highlight=futura65
I have a new Dell laptop (from summer of 2010) for work and because I've been gone for most the year with work, simply haven't needed to deal with this old work horse. However returning home, this thing is toast. So I know much of this old build might be old news, but you see what kind of machine I am looking to build.


7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

I never get into overclocking. I just want the thing to run fast naturally

8. What resolution YOU plan on gaming with.

Currently have 2 24" 1920x1200 monitors...but never know when more or more bigger will come into play. I could certainly see plugging in a 3rd without issue.


9. WHEN do you plan to build it?

As soon as the family leaves from Christmas...this thing is for crap.

Oh and I plan to use Win7 64 bit. That's what's running on the laptop I've been using for work, and since using over this past year have grown quite comfortable with it.

 

[lehtv]

CPU i7-2600 $300 or i7-2600K* $320
Mobo Asus P8Z68-V LE $132
RAM 2x Corsair Vengeance LP 2x4GB 1600 $42
GPU Not sure what's good for a workstation, sorry. Someone else can chime in
HDD Hitachi 7K1000.D 1TB $130 (multiply if you need more space, or add WD Caviar 2TB Green)
SSD Crucial M4 128GB $200 or Samsung 830 128GB $210
ODD Samsung DVD burner $17
PSU XFX 550W $55 AR or Seasonic X-460 Fanless $100 AR
Case Fractal Design R3 $110 ($100 for the arctic white version)
OS Windows 7 64 HP OEM $100 (Unless you need the Pro version $140)

Totals around $1150 + GPU + additional hard drives. Would also consider an aftermarket cooler if you want to keep things silent or decide to OC.

* If you change your mind about overclocking. It's pretty easy these days and you get 20-30% extra performance for the price of an aftermarket cooler, so maybe worth looking into in terms of longevity. Will also speed up workflow, of course.

 

[futura65]

Cool thanks,
but I was really thinking to build at least the machine I had previously planned, 6 core, however at that time didn't have Gulftown and Sandybridge to pick from the the 6 core lineup. Now Sandy also has a 6 core, so I am curious which is better Gulf or Sandy? They both seem priced the same. I was thinking about the i7-3930K over the gulftown from last years build. I don't think I'd see a major improvement if I went with the i7-3960x which is twice as much. I'd be better off spending that on more RAM. From there it's just a matter of a decent mobo, and a really solid GPU since everything I do is very dependant on that.
thanks for the advice!

 

[lehtv]

i7-3930K costs twice as much, and at best it is about 50% faster (e.g. here). In a lot of applications it's closer to 20-30% faster, and if it's not heavily multithreaded then you'll see minimal performance increase. Whether it's worth it to you really depends on how important the time you save in heavily multithreaded apps is.

An LGA2011 mobo is also going to cost nearly twice as much, yet even the cheapest options don't really offer anything substantial that you would benefit from, apart from the SB-E support. If you wanted eight RAM slots, you'd have to pay $280 just for the motherboard.

Also, you won't be able to use integrated graphics to drive a second/third monitor since Sandy Bridge-E doesn't have an IGP.

 

[mfenn]

i7-3930K costs twice as much, and at best it is about 50% faster (e.g. here). In a lot of applications it's closer to 20-30% faster, and if it's not heavily multithreaded then you'll see minimal performance increase. Whether it's worth it to you really depends on how important the time you save in heavily multithreaded apps is.

An LGA2011 mobo is also going to cost nearly twice as much, yet even the cheapest options don't really offer anything substantial that you would benefit from, apart from the SB-E support. If you wanted eight RAM slots, you'd have to pay $280 just for the motherboard.

Also, you won't be able to use integrated graphics to drive a second/third monitor since Sandy Bridge-E doesn't have an IGP.

Agree that the LGA 1155 build is a much better value than a LGA 2011 build. You're better off spending $1500 on a system every couple of years than trying to build a monster $3K system and trying to use it for 4-6 years.

As for the GPU, the Quadro 2000 is a solid midrange workstation card that has all the necessary OpenGL tweaks without breaking the bank.

 

[futura65]

ok....I want to look to build this as a six core machine. I'm not interested in LGA 1155. Anyone who can help me build a serious workstation for work would be helpful. I previously built a 2 to 3 k machine and used it for years. It was more powerful than most dual core machines that were coming out at the time. I don't enjoy building a machine and get it up and running every 2 years. I like to build something and work with it for a while. Like I said there must be some folks who look to build powerful workstations that can help. If you have never used a machine to build a 3D file with extremely high poly count then you really have never seen how you can slow a machine down....even a powerful one. Thanks for any help.

 

[Zap]

I like to build something and work with it for a while. Like I said there must be some folks who look to build powerful workstations that can help. If you have never used a machine to build a 3D file with extremely high poly count then you really have never seen how you can slow a machine down....even a powerful one. Thanks for any help.

See, that doesn't make sense. On the one hand you are saying that you value a super powerful machine. On the other hand you want to use said machine for many years, thus ensuring that by the end of it you are using a super slow machine (by the standards of what is new by then).

The extra $1000 you spend on having "the fastest right now" will only give you a couple percentage points in performance, and will be as outdated once something new comes out.

You still using that old rig from last year's thread? Athlon 64 3200 with a GeForce 6600? Srsly? A new Celeron G530 will run circles around that old rig. Heck, it was outdated when the dual core Athlon 64 x2 came out, and Core 2 Duo completely stomped all over it (3200) in performance. See what I mean?

It is like buying a Lamborghini Countach or Ferrari Testarossa a couple decades ago just to have the fastest car... and still driving it today when a housewife's V6 Toyota Camry will out-accelerate it.

If you really, really, really, really want to spend all that money, well, it's your money so go forth and be a consumer. Just don't do it thinking you are getting the best performance in the long run, and it will never have the best value.

I'm sure you're tired to hear all of our lecturing, so let's get on with some parts!

Intel Core i7-3930K $600
ASUS P9X79 motherboard $280
Scythe SCNJ-3100 120mm Ninja 3 Rev. B CPU Cooler $50
G.SKILL Sniper Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3 1600 Low Voltage $90
SeaSonic X750 80Plus Gold PSU $140 (rather overkill but so is the rest of this rig)
Plextor PX-M2P 128GB SSD $200
HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.D 1TB HDD $130
Fractal Design Arc Midi case $100
Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit $190

The total is $1780 before shipping/tax... and before a graphics card. Seriously, I'm not sure what would work the best with your software. On the one hand you are using your software with a notebook computer and with a GeForce 6600 so probably any new Quadro will do. On the other hand, my GAWD those Quadros are expensive compared to the rough desktop equivalents.

 

[lehtv]

ok....I want to look to build this as a six core machine.

You don't have a lot of options then, it's i7-3930K along with an X79 motherboard. Combined that'll cost $400-450 or so more than the 2600K setup, just for two additional cores and possibly 4 more RAM slots. The rest of the components the same as earlier.

$400-450 would get you a new motherboard and an Intel Haswell 2600K-equivalent CPU that will easily beat i7-3930K, in 2 years time. Or something more than twice as fast in 3-4 years time.

(Zap's "$1000 more" would apply to getting the fastest of the fastest right now, i7-3960X.)

 

[janas19]

You don't have a lot of options then, it's i7-3930K along with an X79 motherboard. Combined that'll cost $400-450 or so more than the 2600K setup, just for two additional cores and possibly 4 more RAM slots. The rest of the components the same as earlier.

$400-450 would get you a new motherboard and an Intel Haswell 2600K-equivalent CPU that will easily beat i7-3930K, in 2 years time. Or something more than twice as fast in 3-4 years time.

(Zap's "$1000 more" would apply to getting the fastest of the fastest right now, i7-3960X.)

Kind of have to agree with this logic.

Why does OP even ask about 1155 if he is set on a six core anyway?

If you give these guys what tasks you want to use the PC for, and they advise you the hardware that will adequately perform those tasks for the best value, and then you say "No I don't want that, I want THIS" ...

Well, maybe you just enjoy pouring money into pointless things.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but it's best not to post if you aren't ready for critiques.

 

[futura65]

hmmm. Well I think some of the problem is that I started thinking about building a machine quite a while ago. And since that time....nearly nothing new has come out, and it's like the best machine I can possibly build is something that is equal to something I could have built 2 or more years ago....for nearly the same price. So building something that's 2 years old just seems....not right. I want to put good power into the machine, and I really wish the old MOBO I had picked out a year ago was still available, but it's not, so I'm at a loss. Can anyone recommend a MOBO like this one in stock some place? I'd like all the same specs. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128422

From there if anyone can answer a question I have asked several times but yet get an answer. Sandybridge or Gulftown....and why. If I understand correctly Sandy doesn't offer SLI and major multiple monitor set ups which I don't want to rule out in the future should I want to plug on a 3rd for viewing say on a LCD/LED TV etc. If I can find a good replacement for the MOBO that is no longer available, and which way I should swing on the Sandy/Gulf choice....I'll probably be set.
thanks

 

[lehtv]

Well I think some of the problem is that I started thinking about building a machine quite a while ago. And since that time....nearly nothing new has come out, and it's like the best machine I can possibly build is something that is equal to something I could have built 2 or more years ago....for nearly the same price.

Gulftown is twice as expensive as 2600K, overall performs about the same (faster in heavily multithreaded, slower in mildly multithreaded).

From there if anyone can answer a question I have asked several times but yet get an answer. Sandybridge or Gulftown....and why.

No point buying Gulftown now that its update is out - Sandy Bridge-E. But just because you were considering Gulftown over 4-core variants doesn't mean a six core SB-E is the way to go now. Had you built the system when Sandy Bridge wasn't yet released, it'd have made more sense to buy a $300 i7-930 than a $600 i7-970/980, and save that $300 difference towards an upgrade to Ivy Bridge (2012) or Haswell (2013) 2600K-equivalent, rather than think the Gulftown would be more "future-proof" than what you could afford in the future with the cash you saved.

If I understand correctly Sandy doesn't offer SLI

Of course it does. Lots of midrange Z68 motherboards are capable of crossfire/SLI. Some higher end ones can handle Tri-SLI.

and major multiple monitor set ups which I don't want to rule out in the future should I want to plug on a 3rd for viewing say on a LCD/LED TV etc.

You don't need a separate discrete GPU for each monitor. A triple monitor setup: one connected to Sandy Bridge IGP, two to the discrete GPU. Only one discrete GPU needed.

 

[janas19]

You don't need a separate discrete GPU for each monitor. A triple monitor setup: one connected to Sandy Bridge IGP, two to the discrete GPU. Only one discrete GPU needed.

This is true. OP, if you are really considering Sandy Bridge, there are graphics cards that support dual monitor setups. Plus, all SB cpus have IGPs. If you buy a Z68 board with onboard video + discrete grafx card w/ dual monitors = tri-monitor setup, rolling in at $200 less.

Btw, I should ask, are you near a Microcenter? They have a deal going on now: $50 off any Z68 motherboard with purchase of i7-2600k.

 

[mfenn]

hmmm. Well I think some of the problem is that I started thinking about building a machine quite a while ago. And since that time....nearly nothing new has come out, and it's like the best machine I can possibly build is something that is equal to something I could have built 2 or more years ago....for nearly the same price.

How do you figure? If you're just looking at core count and clock speed, you're doing it wrong. A Sandy Bridge quad at 3.0Ghz is words faster than a Nehalem or Lynnfield quad at 2.93 Ghz.

Two years ago (Dec 09), Lynnfield had just come out, Gulftown and Sandy Bridge were just twinkles in Intel's eye. Today you can buy a $300 Core i7 2600K that is the same performance as the top-end Gulftown and absolutely dominates the $1000 i7 Extreme from Fall 09.

 

[Zap]

hmmm. Well I think some of the problem is that I started thinking about building a machine quite a while ago... and I really wish the old MOBO I had picked out a year ago was still available, but it's not, so I'm at a loss.

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is one (of the many) reasons why some of us sound like a broken record.

Do. Not. Plan. Your. System. Build. Way. In. Advance.

If you are inquisitive, do research. However, plan your system build about a week before you actually place your parts order.

From there if anyone can answer a question I have asked several times but yet get an answer. Sandybridge or Gulftown....and why. If I understand correctly Sandy doesn't offer SLI and major multiple monitor set ups which I don't want to rule out in the future should I want to plug on a 3rd for viewing say on a LCD/LED TV etc.

You don't understand correctly. SLI and multiple monitors can be done with socket 1155 just fine.

And let me semi-definitively answer your question of Sandy Bridge or Gulftown.

Sandy Bridge. It does more work per MHz, plus can be clocked to a higher MHz.

On a related note, if your budget really included Gulftown and you think you need the extra two cores, then you should be looking at Sandy Bridge E. Think EVERYTHING that Gulftown would give you (6 cores, more PCIe lanes, more memory channels) plus EVERYTHING that socket 1155 Sandy Bridge gives you (lower heat output/power draw, faster at same MHz and can overclock to higher MHz, newer chipsets) rolled into one.

Two years ago (Dec 09), Lynnfield had just come out, Gulftown and Sandy Bridge were just twinkles in Intel's eye. Today you can buy a $300 Core i7 2600K that is the same performance as the top-end Gulftown and absolutely dominates the $1000 i7 Extreme from Fall 09.

Ain't that the truth! I personally "upgraded" from a Core i7 975X Extreme Edition to a Core i5-2500K (and since then to a Core i7-2600K because it was $250). Performance is better, overclocking is better, heat output is better and uses less electricity. Win.