New Winchester Issue - Won't post past 219 FSB on MSI Neo 4 - possibly others

[Elfear]

It passes at 288x9 on the Neo4 SLI board, it just acts tempermental when in Windows. I get a bsod everytime I try to open a 3D app while ocing. Doesn't matter if the cpu being pushed or not (multi at x6). Leads me to believe that the PCIE locks aren't working on my board or something. I also can't post half the time when ocing. Sometimes it boots just fine and sometimes the screen goes black and I have to do the insert key + reset trick to change settings in the bios. I'm RMAing the board through Newegg and I'm debating on whether I want to sell the new one when it gets here and get a DFI SLI-D or go the rounds again with the Neo4.

Seeing other people get good overclocks makes me want to give this board another shot but then it'll be worth less if it ends up being a no go and I want to sell it.

 

[Heinrich]

I see, RMA and then sell the replacement as new. Not a bad idea. DFI SLI-D is on my list too....

 

[ChineseDemocracyGNR]

That's actually a bad idea because the product that is working as specified. If you don't like the board sell it for a loss and do more research when buying the replacement.

 

[Elfear]

All the research done on the board so far by review sites says it is the best thing next to sliced bread. Second only to the DFI when it comes to ocing and that's only by a few mhz. The problems I encountered aren't from a lack of research, as my neglected wife will attest to. I actually got this thing to boot at a 360MHz fsb which in my book is amazing. I like the board just fine except that my sata/pcie locks don't seem to be working. I don't consider that working "as specified". If I can't game on an SLI board while overclocking than something is wrong.

 

[Heinrich]

I do PLENTY of research, your assumption is seriously flawed. I even recently left a comment on the MSI comparison that Anandtech did here this week. There is something wrong with this board or the bios's released so far, and why the official web sites aren't picking it up is what is curious to me. The product is _not_ working as specified. That is exactly what this topic is about. Did you take the time to read and digest this thread or did you approach this thread with some hidden agenda for some reason?

 

[ChineseDemocracyGNR]

I took my time to read this thread and many others, and that's why I wouldn't buy this board for overclocking (=research). I just don't feel it's right to return a product because it doesn't *overclock* like you want it to.
If you disagree of course that's your business. However, most resellers wouldn't agree with you, so good luck.

 

[Slaimus]

According to the following xbit reviews, this is a general nForce4 limitation that can be corrected with a BIOS update:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/chaintech-nforce4.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/ecs-kn1-extreme.html

 

[Elfear]

Newegg seemed to think a non-functioning sata/pcie lock was a good reason to RMA

 

[Heinrich]

Originally posted by: ChineseDemocracyGNR
I took my time to read this thread and many others, and that's why I wouldn't buy this board for overclocking (=research). I just don't feel it's right to return a product because it doesn't *overclock* like you want it to.
If you disagree of course that's your business. However, most resellers wouldn't agree with you, so good luck.

1 - the board ships in a box talking about OVERCLOCKING and with a manual that reviews many overclocking options.

2 - I bought this board BEFORE it was plainly obvious that it does not work nearly as well as other boards. There was exactly ONE thread discussing the problem on an extremely obscure web site I had never even heard of before. Do you see that I am a member here since 2001? I do DAILY research on tech topics. The reviews of this board that are everywhere - here, tom's, hardocp are WONDERFUL. That is exactly why I started THIS thread.

3 - Since the board does not perform as advertised, reviewed, or stated in the manual, returning it is NOT WRONG in any shape or fashion. You are correct that I do assume some risk and agree to policies when I purchase a product. You are not correct in drawing a bead between what is "right" and what any retailer may think is "right."

4 - Your 'good luck' comment sounds exceptionally smug. If you have nothing to contribute to this topic to help those of us who are VICTIMS of not thorough enough reviewing and little help from those with enough resources to get to the bottom of this problem, would you please stop clouding the topic with NO-HELP nonsense messages that do nothing but attract attention to yourself and go participate in some other topic where you could actually offer some assistance to someone. THANK YOU.

 

[Heinrich]

Slaimus those were great reads, thanks. Sounds like there is a default issue with the nForce 4 BIOS that can be fixed. I have two questions:

For those of you with much experience, my particular combo will not overclock in Windows. I think that in addition to having the motherboard issue, I just have a 'bad luck' CPU. If I cannot overlock in Windows, or hit any frequency past 219, is this a reasonable assumption. I may bite the bullet and go for an Athlon 64 4000+ 1MB

 

[Elfear]

Heinrich- If you're wanting to bypass the problems with the Winchester chips and you have a lot of money, I'd say go for it. Otherwise you could almost buy four of the 3000+ chips for the price of the 4000+. You have a pretty good chance of getting a really good ocer and then you can sell the other chips off. Depends on if you like messing around with hardware or if you'd rather have a reliable chip you can oc without too much trouble.

 

[dashiki]

Heeinrich: You seem to take issue with people criticizong your thread when you post into a public forum people are allowed to express there opinion. To rma a board that works as described so you can sell it as new on ebay or wherever is wrong and fraud.

 

[thunderroller]

i have heating problem in msi

 

[Heinrich]

Originally posted by: dashiki
Heeinrich: You seem to take issue with people criticizong your thread when you post into a public forum people are allowed to express there opinion. To rma a board that works as described so you can sell it as new on ebay or wherever is wrong and fraud.

When a product is advertised as as being an overclocking product - on the box - and in the manual - and in reviews - and yet does not perform as advertised, as reviewed - compared to other products on the market - it is a defective product.

Here is an additional site with information for you:

Site for you

 

[ChineseDemocracyGNR]

If you read this thread from the beginning you'll see that I did post to help people. And if you read my posts here at AT you'll see that I do that a lot.

I'm not trying to be a smug or anything; I just think you're wrong in returning a product because it doesn't overclock as you expected it to.

 

[Heinrich]

Originally posted by: ChineseDemocracyGNR
I'm not trying to be a smug or anything; I just think you're wrong in returning a product because it doesn't overclock as you expected it to.

I expect the product to LIVE UP TO ITS ADVERTISING. IT HAS A FLAW as evidenced by DOZENS OF OTHER PEOPLE NOW.

This is NOT a fluke due to "bad luck" on getting one particular unit that did not function overclock as well as another particular unit. The motherboard in question does not perform as advertised or designed. IT IS A DEFECTIVE PRODUCT. I am in within my rights in returning the product.

I just discovered that MONARCH has 15 days no questions asked. I can return this product if I choose to because I do not like the color of the heatsink.

If I buy a blender that advertises it will hit 8 speeds, but only does 3 speeds, am I wrong in returning it? HELL NO. Why you guys see fit to lecture me on the morality of overclocking and shopping, I still have NO CLUE.

If I have a particular sample that does not do well then that is the luck of the draw. If you would read and digest these messages and the link to Rebel HQ, THIS IS A DEFECTIVE PRODUCT.

 

[dashiki]

and where does it sy how far you can oc it? 10% overstock would be an overclock correct? it is not defective as running your mob/cpu out of spec voids the warranty.

IT IS NOT DEFECTIVE IT IT RUNS AT THE RATED SPEED GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL

 

[Robowang]

I agree with Heinrich. I posted a similiar problem in Gigabtye section. The first guy to reply had to get a gouge in on "why overclock you moron" and "you didn't research enough". I just don't get why people feel they need to second guess everybody just because they don't agree. Just close mindedness I guess.
Anyway, I have the same problem with my new MSI Neo4 SLI + Winchester core. No boot above 219 no matter what settings are in bios. I have complained to MSI and hope to get a response.
However, Msi is presenting a "head in the sand" attitude about this issue. The only way they are going to change anything is if enough people complain directly to them. I would suggect that anyone with this problem send a product problem description form found here:
http://www.msicomputer.com/msiforms/c_problem_desc_form2.asp
and/or (both would be better) go to their forum and register here:
http://www.msi.com.tw/html/service/forum/index_lan.htm
At the forum, they have relegated this issue to a "overclocking" problem and insist on having it posted to the overclocking forum. I don't agree as I believe this is a board specific problem, and should be posted in the boards forum. I didn't register and post there to discuss the art of overclocking, but to get this issue resolved, as it is a non performance/feature issue.
Anyway, I think if we flood them with complaints, it MAY help to get them moving on this issue. The more public it becomes, the less boards will be sold to the enthusiasts. Considering the emphasis that MSI puts on OC in their product marketing, I don't think they want to get a rep for poor performing boards. At least, that's my opinion.
I ask each person that reads this to make some effort at letting MSI know they have a problem. This is just too good of a board in many other ways to have to let go.

 

[Heinrich]

Looking at the manual, pages 3-8 begin discussing how to overclock. Pages 4-14 explain how to overclock in Windows with Core Center. Why would this manufacturer supply software and educational materiel on how to overclock and then the board is not able to overclock? Why do they program such options to begin with? Why do they advertise this board as being able to get the maximum performance by overclocking? This is not some exploit and it is not some trick discovered hidden. This board is sold, marketed, and educated on overclocking.

YET others with the same components have trouble and the board fails. They take the same components and put them in a DFI board, or an Asus board, and go way past 219. Dozens of people are getting stuck at 219. The evidence is very high that there is a defect on this board. It does not run as it is advertised. The evidence abounds from myself and others.

The purpose of this thread was to help people understand their alternatives and exactly what the problems are on this defective product. It would be nice, for instance, to discuss possible settings that do work, past history with other manufacturers who had similar problems, and options about what to do next were the purpose of this thread.

Pontificating on the morality of returning a defective product were not the intentions of this thread as stated. If you wish to argue that it is fine for a blender that is advertised as an 8 speed blender to run at 3 speeds even though it is advertised and educated in the manual how to run it at 8 speeds, could you please start another thread so that the rest of us can get on with helping each other with advice.

 

[Robowang]

Heinrich
I was tweaking around on my board and found that, at leat in my case, it will post consistantly at 230 fsb if I set the HT to 2x. It will post most of the time at 240, but may have to reset a couple of times. This is too strange. Also, when in windows, Central Brain Identifier and Sandra show the HTT at 4x! Definitely something screwy in the post routine on this board. But, you probably knew that.
Oh, and don't waste your time on trolls trying to POUND their opinion into your "thick skull", it's useless.

 

[gsethi]

Change your HT multiplier to 3x and it will POST much past 219FSB. I had the same issue this morning with 4x HT multiplier...changed to 3x and right now, i am at 280FSB