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New video released of flotilla "peace activists" vs Israeli commandos

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senseamp said:
For Israel, it sure is, they have no clue how to deal with this, because they are in the wrong.
The blockade is there to enforce collective punishment regime against civilians. The flotilla shone a bright light on that, and now Israelis are scattering like cockroaches.
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Wow, just wow...

Where do you get your news from?
 
senseamp said:
The peace activists were willing to give up their lives to fight this blockade of civilian goods to Gaza. More than can be said for Rosa Parks.
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You just blew my mind, wow.

Yet another example of my definition of liberalism: standing on your head and telling the world they are upside down.
 
dainthomas said:
Then why fight back against an inspection if you're not carrying any contraband? Must have been those super-scary guys carrying paintball guns.
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Because they don't recognize Israel's "right" to inspect their ship, plus Israel considers everything from spices to meat to toys to chocolate to be "contraband," as it doesn't go along with their policy of collective punishment of Gaza civilians.
I have already said that Israel could structure a legitimate blockade if it strictly focused on import of weapons that were used to target them, but if they use a naval blockade to enforce collective punishment of civilian population and block civilian trade, then they are going to have to live with the diplomatic consequences of being wrong on this one.
 
We need a new classification of people.

People cannot just take up arms against others then claim they are but civilians.
 
cubby1223 said:
We need a new classification of people.

People cannot just take up arms against others then claim they are but civilians.
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So a conservative such as yourself prefers to bear arms in your home/state/wherever in case the big bad government comes to take your rights away but prefer that other civilians not do the same to protect themselves? The hypocrisy here is galling. What did you expect them to do, bend over and take it up the ass?
 
Israel implicitly acknowledged that these were ALL civilians, not terrorists, not combatants, when it decided to release EVERYONE on board. Otherwise they would have been brought to justice or detained for the duration of hostilities.
 
Narmer said:
So a conservative such as yourself prefers to bear arms in your home/state/wherever in case the big bad government comes to take your rights away but prefer that other civilians not do the same to protect themselves? The hypocrisy here is galling. What did you expect them to do, bend over and take it up the ass?
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That's what the others here are expecting Israel to do.
 
cubby1223 said:
If you as an individual import rockets from Turkey and fire them on Canada, should you be called a civilian?
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If I as an individual import wheelchairs and children's books from Turkey and distribute them in Brazil, should I be a knight in her Majesty's service?
 
senseamp said:
What if you import wheelchairs and toys?
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What if, what if, what if...

We could play this pointless hypothetical game for the rest of our lives.

The big picture must be discussed, not these little squabbles that exist solely to create convenient propaganda for either side.

Get over yourself.
 
cubby1223 said:
The big picture must be discussed, not these little squabbles that exist solely to create convenient propaganda for either side.
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Exactly, nobody cares about maritime law, blockades, paintball guns, metal rods, who hit who first, etc.

The big picture is:

Israel bungled this big time.
 
senseamp said:
Israel implicitly acknowledged that these were ALL civilians, not terrorists, not combatants, when it decided to release EVERYONE on board. Otherwise they would have been brought to justice or detained for the duration of hostilities.
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The combatants were shot when they attacked the soldiers. The people not involved in the fighting would not be guilty of anything.
 
cubby1223 said:
That's what the others here are expecting Israel to do.
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No it isn't. The supporters of the humanitarian effort see Israel's blockade for what it is, collective punishment. It doesn't matter that Hamas is in charge. For them, this was a humanist thing to do because the people of Gaza are suffering. The reasons Israel is punishing them is three-fold:

1) The captured Israeli soldier

2) A hostile Hamas in power

3) The firing of Qassam rockets by other militant groups.

Israel believes that collective punishment will make Gazans rebel against Hamas and choose Fatah. It won't happen because Fatah looks like Israel's pet at the moment. Also, collective punishment is illegal.
 
jpeyton said:
If I as an individual import wheelchairs and children's books from Turkey and distribute them in Brazil, should I be a knight in her Majesty's service?
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Sure, why not?

But you better damn well realize that the world is not perfect. Peace is not maintained by handing out flowers to those who wish to destroy you.
 
The Israeli Commandos had no choice but to use deadly force, that's not in dispute. What's in dispute is them landing on the boat in the first place without permission in International Waters. Their Commanders placed them in harm's way.
 
Sclamoz said:
The combatants were shot when they attacked the soldiers. The people not involved in the fighting would not be guilty of anything.
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There were people involved in fighting who were not shot, or were shot but not killed. They were ALL released. ALL of them. If they were combatants or terrorists, Israel had a responsibility to detain them.
 
cubby1223 said:
What if, what if, what if...

We could play this pointless hypothetical game for the rest of our lives.

The big picture must be discussed, not these little squabbles that exist solely to create convenient propaganda for either side.

Get over yourself.
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You are the one who brought up a what if first. At least the one I brought up has some relevance to the situation being discussed.
 
Red Dawn said:
The Israeli Commandos had no choice but to use deadly force, that's not in dispute. What's in dispute is them landing on the boat in the first place without permission in International Waters. Their Commanders placed them in harm's way.
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Israel had already setup a blockade, they knew what they were doing when they ran the blockade. You can certainly argue the legitimacy of Israel setting up a blockade in the first place but don't try and pretend they were just strolling along minding their own business in international waters, it's the flotilla captain that placed their people in harms way.
 
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