New Video - NJ Teachers Union gone wild! NSFW!

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ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
last time I checked the NJ kids are among the very best taught in the country. While it may not excuse some of the draw backs, the level of complaints is a joke. Its one of the few systems that actually works.
Works compared to the horrible education in other states or works compared to systems in other countries?

And yes you're right that many jobs are similar to the teachers thingy. I got a paid lunch hour and free pizza for some training bullshit about something I can't even remember :D
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,756
600
126
I think it should be harder to be a teacher, but sadly there is too much demand so its extremely easy to be one. Unfortunately, if we only had a select few elite teachers or school system, many americans would simply opt out or.not qualify to be educated.

Are you sure about this? My impression is that you basically need to use nepotism to get a position, otherwise you're more or less fucked. I see a lot of people slaving away in substitute teacher positions for some time in hopes of getting an in. I seem to recall reading a local opening had over 200 applicants. It might be true of Math teachers, or finding some one qualified that wants to be part time librarian/janitor/tech ed teacher. (I've seen things about as hilarious as the last advertised in small town papers...which indicates to me we need to consolidate our local school districts)
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
It's sad that people would attack teachers unions. Sure they have problems like any other organization but dismantling teachers unions would, with absolute certainty, damage education.

I know a lot of very good teachers and very good potential teachers in programs now for education... Unions are critical.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
That's not really the issue. I've been just as annoyed by Michael Moore at times when he's made films I regarded as vapid and dishonest (e.g., Bowling for Columbine). O'Keefe is, at his core, dishonest, and as a huge documentary film buff I think that's about as damning a criticism as one can level at a documentarian.

I am an attorney who represents major public-sector clients in disputes with unions CONSTANTLY. I don't find it believable that a union could impose a unilateral change to an existing contract, then enforce it, even if a member of the union believed that had happened. I also have a hard time getting upset that the members of a union that the governor has vowed to crush are, well, upset with the governor.

The comment made implied the language in the contract document was changed after final reviews were made. The counterparties signed without further review and without realizing that the actual documents being signed no longer reflected the final agreed to working document.

I don't know how the speaker would be aware of something like that unless involved in the negotiation and/or responsible for publishing the contract docs. I would expect these would be produced and controlled by counsel, but who knows? Maybe the union's legal counsel pulled a fast one. Maybe it is just some of the hot air that gets wafted around at these conventions.

My point is that if a statement like that is being made it bears investigation and, at the least, the contracting officers need to review the executed copies with the last agreed to working draft on file to see if they match up.

To your first point, O'Keefe is an agitator with pretensions to being a humorist. By no stretch of the imagination is he a professional reporter, nor is he a documentarian.

His work is slipshod and random, he relies on being there with a hidden camera right at the time someone is going to say something damning. He asks questions that are going to reveal "true" character and/or opinion. His targets are chosen just because they are most likely to make such statements.

Comments that the recordings are out of context or fabricated are just sour grapes. He does pull out the quotes he believes are going to be most damaging or most humorous, but his selected moments run for much longer than most any "mainstream" news piece sound bites and, for better or worse, they do reflect the immediate opinions of the unguarded speakers he records.

His means of capturing the comments may or may not be legal, that depends on the jurisdiction. Who actually wants to be recorded by a hidden camera? But that does not detract from the authenticity of the captured statements. Having said that, recording union members getting wasted at a convention is worthless other than for confirming what we already know.

I wish he would polish up his act but the charm of what he does put out is in the content not in the presentation. And there is little content that requires reviewing in this particular piece.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,275
6,637
126
If I were rich I would spend billions propagandizing the American people to hate unions. Why should those sheep share in the wealth of my risk-taking and ideas when with a little money I can teach them to the bongo bongo in their own hind ends.
 

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,218
8
81
O'Keefe is not an imbecile, not at all. He is a classic agent provocateur that lets whomever he targets hang themselves with their own words.

agent provocateur? professional activist? probably deserves to have his head stepped on?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
LOL You're free to do it Rudder. In fact it's easy, to start, almost any degree will work for early-hood child education, k-12. LMK how you like it after a year making a measley 24-25K, surrounded by screaming kids, screaming parents if you dare discipline the children or call parents to question WTF is going on at home, administrators who will stick noobs like you in worst schools. Grass is always greener.
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,041
3
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LOL You're free to do it Rudder. In fact it's easy, to start, almost any degree will work for early-hood child education, k-12. LMK how you like it after a year making a measley 24-25K, surrounded by screaming kids, screaming parents if you dare discipline the children or call parents to question WTF is going on at home, administrators who will stick noobs like you in worst schools. Grass is always greener.

the salary doesn't bother me as much as the unsustainable pension and tenure.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
the salary doesn't bother me as much as the unsustainable pension and tenure.

Tenure doesnt bother me. It's like with cops we can't be like some third world country who swaps all govt jobs when their guy gets in. Pension is unsustainable pyramid and will take care of itself. You cant live for 30 years for only 1 years worth of total contribution. Math don't work. No investment pays that much. They'll see.
 
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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Tenure doesnt bother me. It's like with cops we can't be like some third world country who swaps all govt jobs when their guy gets in. Pension is unsustainable pyramid and will take care of itself. You cant live for 30 years for only 1 years worth of total contribution. Math don't work. No investment pays that much. They'll see.

Maybe we should pay them more to begin with and eliminate the idea of tenure so we can fire the shitty ones?

Oh wait, we can't afford to pay them more because the federal government sucks up 20% of GDP so we're all beholden to a bloated, non-functioning government. Begging for table scraps at the foot of royalty. Surely that's what this country was founded on.
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,041
3
0
Tenure doesnt bother me. It's like with cops we can't be like some third world country who swaps all govt jobs when their guy gets in. Pension is unsustainable pyramid and will take care of itself. You cant live for 30 years for only 1 years worth of total contribution. Math don't work. No investment pays that much. They'll see.

yeah, they'll see and raise our taxes.
if none of this came out of my pocket, i wouldn't give a shit.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
Tenure doesnt bother me.

Why should high school teachers (or below) get tenure? Wasn't the real reason behind tenure to provide academic freedom to people so that they could research unpopular topics without fear of losing their jobs? What do high school teachers research? Why should they be given this perk when they quite honestly do nothing to deserve it? I've been in IT for many years with stellar reviews and accomplishments -- where is my tenure?
 
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mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
Are you sure about this? My impression is that you basically need to use nepotism to get a position, otherwise you're more or less fucked. I see a lot of people slaving away in substitute teacher positions for some time in hopes of getting an in. I seem to recall reading a local opening had over 200 applicants. It might be true of Math teachers, or finding some one qualified that wants to be part time librarian/janitor/tech ed teacher. (I've seen things about as hilarious as the last advertised in small town papers...which indicates to me we need to consolidate our local school districts)

I should have added a asterisk


Good districts can be hard to get into, but rural schools and especially urban schools are always looking for teachers.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
306
126
It's the Tech blitzkrieg before the November elections.

You say that in jest, and yet I hadn't seen this guy regularly posting stuff, then all of a sudden WHAM, he's in every thread spewing hatred, vitriol, and unreasoning rhetoric.

It's almost enough to make you think he's a paid shill, but frankly none of his standpoints are reasoned through thoroughly or have anything that back them up, so I kinda doubt it.