New Tuner for F150

[xBiffx]

Well, I decided to finally pull the trigger on an upgrade for my 2013 F-150 Ecoboost. Should be here in a few days for me to start playing with.

SCT X4 + 5 Star Tunes

Should be able to get this baby over 400 hp and 500 ft-lbs of torque!
But really, I'm mostly interested in seeing how the economy tunes do on a trip to St. Louis next weekend. If they net me 2 mpg or so, this thing pays for itself.

Also picked up a new set of spark plugs.

 

[thestrangebrew1]

I didn't know anything about tuners till I bought my F150 a few months ago. Then I found they were illegal in CA

 

[cabri]

You trade power and mpg for emissions.

How does playing with the ECU affect your engine warranty?

 

[iamwiz82]

You trade power and mpg for emissions.

How does playing with the ECU affect your engine warranty?

Most manufacturers now have a flag in their ECUs where they can tell if it's been modified. If they see the flag is set and you have a warranty concern, they can deny it.

I seem to recall a few ecoboosts being denied warranty after tunes were discovered. In addition, I am pretty sure that there is a water issue with the EB engines. Too much condensation starts pooling, gets sucked up and then hydrolocks a cylinder or two, at best. A tuned engine with a bent con rod will cost quite a bit out of pocket.

You pay to play, if you think it's worth it, go for it, but don't complain when you have to shell out for a new short block.

 

[Kadarin]

Here's a pic of the engine in my F150...

 

[Scarpozzi]

I can see the need for tuners since manufacturers are trying to milk more mpg out of engines. The problem I see comes from the tuners looking at a complex engine from very basic views and not knowing limits of the different systems as well as the manufacturer may. I'm just saying that use of tuners or chips to modify intake/exhaust can be a mixed bag of rewards, no gains or losses, or even causing failure of parts.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

I can see the need for tuners since manufacturers are trying to milk more mpg out of engines. The problem I see comes from the tuners looking at a complex engine from very basic views and not knowing limits of the different systems as well as the manufacturer may. I'm just saying that use of tuners or chips to modify intake/exhaust can be a mixed bag of rewards, no gains or losses, or even causing failure of parts.

For a stock vehicle i agree, tuners are gimicky. When you start adding parts pretty much have to have one.

 

[cabri]

Most manufacturers now have a flag in their ECUs where they can tell if it's been modified. If they see the flag is set and you have a warranty concern, they can deny it.

I seem to recall a few ecoboosts being denied warranty after tunes were discovered. In addition, I am pretty sure that there is a water issue with the EB engines. Too much condensation starts pooling, gets sucked up and then hydrolocks a cylinder or two, at best. A tuned engine with a bent con rod will cost quite a bit out of pocket.

You pay to play, if you think it's worth it, go for it, but don't complain when you have to shell out for a new short block.

I worked for Cummins and for our group, we had programs that would be used to tune large diesels (20-60 liter) on sites.

There were ex-field techs that kept the same program (different settings per engine) and would go around to truck stops to "tune" the 18 wheelers beyond specs.

If Cummins had an engine come in that was adjusted they would void the warranty. $250K engine would then have to be fixed out of trucking company pockets.

 

[xBiffx]

I didn't know anything about tuners till I bought my F150 a few months ago. Then I found they were illegal in CA

There are CA legal ones out I believe. CARB approved tuner.

 

[xBiffx]

Most manufacturers now have a flag in their ECUs where they can tell if it's been modified. If they see the flag is set and you have a warranty concern, they can deny it.

I seem to recall a few ecoboosts being denied warranty after tunes were discovered. In addition, I am pretty sure that there is a water issue with the EB engines. Too much condensation starts pooling, gets sucked up and then hydrolocks a cylinder or two, at best. A tuned engine with a bent con rod will cost quite a bit out of pocket.

You pay to play, if you think it's worth it, go for it, but don't complain when you have to shell out for a new short block.

You can return to stock. They won't know what you modded, only that the OBDII port had been accessed. Well that could be anything from another garage to Autozone, so they know nothing.

In any event they can't void the warranty, just the part that they say failed do to the tune. So if you take in in for a stereo issue, they can't deny it because they see its tuned. If the engine blows, that's obviously another matter.

That condensation issue is old news and extremely rare. Also, your description is inaccurate. Worst case scenario with that issue was the truck went into limp mode before major/permanent damage occurred.

 

[xBiffx]

Here's a pic of the engine in my F150...

I hate you.

I was about to drop $65K on one of the 2014 F-150 Roush trucks at the local dealer. I just can't bring myself to do it.

 

[tweakmonkey]

There's a lot of ways they could see that you had tuned it. The ECUs typically have a flash counter and if you take it for a warranty claim it would show 1 instead of 0 on a new car, or 2 etc. depending on the times you flashed it. Also they could look at over-revs if the rev limiter was increased, and they could see other things like peak torque / boost depending on the sensors. Even then though, due to the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act they would need to go through a lot of work to technically prove your flash damaged anything and it could only effect relevant items-- but I'm sure dealers are familiar with how that works.

With that said - you can certainly see big gains using a tuner on a STOCK car if the manufacturer leaves a bit on the table. In the case of a Turbo car it's almost always the case that you can tune the AFRs/boost levels and timing to get a big jump in HP/tq, possibly at the cost of mileage, emissions or damage/longevity.

I doubt the "eco" tunes will help the mileage. And any time you go WOT compared to before it's going to use more gas.

 

[xBiffx]

I doubt the "eco" tunes will help the mileage. And any time you go WOT compared to before it's going to use more gas.

 

[shabby]

I didn't know anything about tuners till I bought my F150 a few months ago. Then I found they were illegal in CA

Will the police stop you and make sure you're running factory calibration? Doubt it.

 

[DaTT]

Don't listen to the nay-sayers about warranty. First of all, the tunes you order with the tuners are called "canned" tunes. They will be very safe to run...not aggressive at all. Unlikely that they will raise your rev limiter as someone said above. Secondly, put it back to stock if you're worried when you bring it back to the dealership if it requires warranty work.

When I first tuned my Mustang way back when (91 Octane race tune, raised rev limiter, Cold Air Intake, and full exhaust) I was a little worried about bringing it in. I called the service manager when it had to go in for an issue with it hesitating under throttle and he said not to worry about putting anything back to stock. He said the only time you really need to worry is when you do big power adders (blowers or cams, etc.).

Just make sure you ask them NOT to update your ECU if you leave your tune on it. That will render your SCT useless until you ship it back to them for a reset.

I have an SCT2

However, with that said, all dealerships are different. I would personally call your service manager and ask him if it should be put back to stock if you're bringing it in.

 

[tweakmonkey]

On the Eco tune, you might save a tiny bit of gas but at what cost? Most likely having less boost and power on tap than you did when the car was stock. What's the point of having the Turbo at all then, you may as well be driving a 4-cyl truck because when you go to pass the truck will be slower than stock. And even then I doubt it'll make a huge impact on mileage (I have an ecoboost 1.6L Fiesta ST and have tried the eco/regular tunes on my access port).

On the regular tune it will increase the boost a bit. More boost requires more fuel and it'll use more gas at wide open throttle - so when you do run the higher power maps you'll burn through more gas anyway. I'd just run the tune and enjoy it, but let us know how swapping to eco and back works

 

[tweakmonkey]

Unlikely that they will raise your rev limiter as someone said above.

I was surprised to see it but the Ecoboost 1.6L tunes pretty much all increase the rev limiter. Not sure about the V6 though - still something to look at.

When I first tuned my Mustang way back when (91 Octane race tune, raised rev limiter, Cold Air Intake, and full exhaust) I was a little worried about bringing it in. I called the service manager when it had to go in for an issue with it hesitating under throttle and he said not to worry about putting anything back to stock. He said the only time you really need to worry is when you do big power adders (blowers or cams, etc.).

Is your Mustang turbocharged? This truck he's using already has a Turbo afaik. And increasing the boost is certainly going to be in the same realm as any power adder.

I do agree that it will probably never be an issue, and if it was my truck I would flash it too. But if you put a crappy tune on there it could blow up the engine a lot easier on these turbo V6s than on a non-turbo V8 considering what parameters people are changing. The modern ECUs are great for timing retard/knock supression so I doubt it'll ever be a problem. But if somehow you blow something up from too much torque (this tune he's talking about adds what, 80-100 ft/lb? It's a lot more significant than a flash adding 12 HP).

 

[DaTT]

I was surprised to see it but the Ecoboost 1.6L tunes pretty much all increase the rev limiter. Not sure about the V6 though - still something to look at.

Was it a 500 RPM increase? If so it was probably to keep the throttle body open all the way to stock redline. From what I remember, on my car anyways, the throttle body would start to close around 500 RPM short of the redline as it prepared to hit the limiter. That's why mine was raised, to keep the butterfly open all the way until stock redline.

 

[iamwiz82]

You can return to stock. They won't know what you modded, only that the OBDII port had been accessed. Well that could be anything from another garage to Autozone, so they know nothing.

In any event they can't void the warranty, just the part that they say failed do to the tune. So if you take in in for a stereo issue, they can't deny it because they see its tuned. If the engine blows, that's obviously another matter.

That condensation issue is old news and extremely rare. Also, your description is inaccurate. Worst case scenario with that issue was the truck went into limp mode before major/permanent damage occurred.

I never said anything about them voiding your stereo warranty. You had better check the F150 forums because there are guys who had their ENGINE warranty voided due to tunes.

I have been playing with tuning long before the ecoboost, back in the day there was no way for the OEM to know that your ECU had been modified. In the past 5-6 years they got much smarter and started checking for, and flagging, non-OEM readings. You toast a torque converter, cam, clutch, etc, with a non-stock tune and you are playing with fire. I am not against tunes, they are great power adders, but you had better be ready to pay if you pop a piston through the block.

 

[natto fire]

Will the police stop you and make sure you're running factory calibration? Doubt it.

OK, I'm a stupid hick from Ohio, and even I know that California is huge on annual smog tests. Some counties here even have them. Just because something is illegal does not mean Johnny Law will come at you full force, sirens blaring, as any drug war offender will tell you, just that it is breaking the law. Kind of like how billions of tax revenue is lost through big companies breaking the law to shelter revenue from the IRS.

 

[Kadarin]

OK, I'm a stupid hick from Ohio, and even I know that California is huge on annual smog tests. Some counties here even have them. Just because something is illegal does not mean Johnny Law will come at you full force, sirens blaring, as any drug war offender will tell you, just that it is breaking the law. Kind of like how billions of tax revenue is lost through big companies breaking the law to shelter revenue from the IRS.

Buy a new vehicle in California, and you won't have to smog it for six years. After that, it's every two years.

Just switch back to the factory tune before taking it in. And that's even assuming it won't pass with the non-factory tune.

 

[Zivic]

There's a lot of ways they could see that you had tuned it. The ECUs typically have a flash counter and if you take it for a warranty claim it would show 1 instead of 0 on a new car, or 2 etc. depending on the times you flashed it. Also they could look at over-revs if the rev limiter was increased, and they could see other things like peak torque / boost depending on the sensors. Even then though, due to the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act they would need to go through a lot of work to technically prove your flash damaged anything and it could only effect relevant items-- but I'm sure dealers are familiar with how that works.

With that said - you can certainly see big gains using a tuner on a STOCK car if the manufacturer leaves a bit on the table. In the case of a Turbo car it's almost always the case that you can tune the AFRs/boost levels and timing to get a big jump in HP/tq, possibly at the cost of mileage, emissions or damage/longevity.

I doubt the "eco" tunes will help the mileage. And any time you go WOT compared to before it's going to use more gas.

The mag moss act is a joke. Those that quote it haven't had first hand experience with it. It will take loads of legal (lots of $) for it to favor you.. The dealer/manufacturer likely has more money and lawyers than you do. Regardless putting a 3rd party tune on your truck puts it out of manufacturer spec and easily will void a warranty. If you don't think they will know you tuned it, you are a fool. If you are fine with voided warranty, tune away

 

[tweakmonkey]

The mag moss act is a joke. Those that quote it haven't had first hand experience with it. It will take loads of legal (lots of $) for it to favor you..

Good to know - I haven't had to deal with it before but had only heard through whispers that it would protect me in this type of case.

I put a tune on my car anyway, when it had 150 miles on the odometer, knowing that if it blew up I would deal with it myself. Also I checked the price of replacement engine parts and laughed at how cheap they were

 

[Zivic]

I put a tune on my car anyway, when it had 150 miles on the odometer, knowing that if it blew up I would deal with it myself. Also I checked the price of replacement engine parts and laughed at how cheap they were

That's the right attitude to have. you have to think worst case scenario and if you are comfortable with that, do what you want. that's not to say the dealer is 100% not going to take care of you, but it isn't likely

 

[xBiffx]

The mag moss act is a joke. Those that quote it haven't had first hand experience with it. It will take loads of legal (lots of $) for it to favor you.. The dealer/manufacturer likely has more money and lawyers than you do. Regardless putting a 3rd party tune on your truck puts it out of manufacturer spec and easily will void a warranty. If you don't think they will know you tuned it, you are a fool. If you are fine with voided warranty, tune away

If a manufacturer wants to be a dick they can deny a claim for whatever reason they want. If you have to go as far as court to fight it, does that change anything you said about the MMA? Its nice to have at least something to toss over the wall at those dealerships who don't want to fight it.

Basically, I could leave it stock and still be in for lots of $$$ in legal fees at any time for a warranty repair.