New to programming, where to start?

[ibex333]

You're not a programmer. If you want to go ahead and force yourself to learn it then by all means do, but it will be like learning to make chairs when you hate woodworking. Programming is a craft, and I don't think you want to be shackled to a keyboard 10 hours a day if you hate solving puzzles in code.

Hate to say it, but I agree.

Certainly there are portions of working in programming that can be tedious; however, if you find it boring just doing stuff of your own choosing you probably aren't a good fit for programming.

My family owns a farm. I know how to farm. I hate farming, I'm not a farmer. On the flip side, my father finds endless joy in farmwork. He loves driving the tractors, irrigating, and just the experience of making something grow. He like fixing things when they break down. He is a farmer. (though, I must say that fixing something that breaks is pretty rewarding... but the vast majority of the work is monotonous).

I apologize to the OP if I am going off topic, but since we already arrived here...

Unfortunately, I don't really have a choice. The reason why I took up programming is because what I love to do doesn't pay, and cannot sustain a basic lifestyle. I love fixing computers. Taking them apart, putting them together, troubleshooting, answering people's questions, helping them fix their computers, etc, etc. I work in a tech support field, and I am good at it. There's hardly a problem I cannot solve. Sadly, that sort of thing doesn't pay. I really, really wish it did, and I cant see why it doesn't, but the fact remains is that it doesn't. And in a few years from now, it probably will not at all. (heh I guess I do see why it doesn't pay after all. I'm in denial, see?)

I always wanted to be a doctor, but I hate math. I was great at subjects like anatomy but I was horrible in math. And because of that I didn't become a doctor. I also wanted to be a lawyer, but even though I loved reading and memorizing theory, and got good grades, it was the damned math that stopped me.

So because I love computers I decided to try programming. You might argue that since I hate math I'll never succeed in programming. However that is simply not true. I know several people that don't know mathematics past 9th grade of High School, yet they hold well paying programming jobs. Looking at that, I gotta admit I am jealous, and I have no choice but to FORCE myself to learn programming, since I certainly don't want to work in McDonalds. And I probably couldn't, because I'm not very good at counting money quickly.

There were plenty of people in history that didn't like certain trades. Yet they eventually became good in those exact trades if they were forced to learn them for whatever reason.
There is a zen-like story about two mice that fell into a jar of milk. One mouse struggled for a while, but eventually gave up and drowned. The other kept struggling, beat the milk into butter and once it became solid, it got out... I want to see if I can be that 2nd mouse, because I was the 1st one in the past.

 

[Cogman]

I apologize to the OP if I am going off topic, but since we already arrived here...

Unfortunately, I don't really have a choice. The reason why I took up programming is because what I love to do doesn't pay, and cannot sustain a basic lifestyle. I love fixing computers. Taking them apart, putting them together, troubleshooting, answering people's questions, helping them fix their computers, etc, etc. I work in a tech support field, and I am good at it. There's hardly a problem I cannot solve. Sadly, that sort of thing doesn't pay. I really, really wish it did, and I cant see why it doesn't, but the fact remains is that it doesn't. And in a few years from now, it probably will not at all. (heh I guess I do see why it doesn't pay after all. I'm in denial, see?)

I would suggest looking into other IT related fields then. There are plenty of non-programming IT fields that you can get into. From network management to sys-ops (ok, maybe a little programming would be required there) there are lots of interesting things to look into with regards to computers.

Hell, you like troubleshooting, maybe your calling isn't as a programmer, but rather a test developer. The demand is huge for those guys (because most people don't like it) but you do a lot of troubleshooting and problem finding (not a lot of problem fixing however).

I always wanted to be a doctor, but I hate math. I was great at subjects like anatomy but I was horrible in math. And because of that I didn't become a doctor. I also wanted to be a lawyer, but even though I loved reading and memorizing theory, and got good grades, it was the damned math that stopped me.

So because I love computers I decided to try programming. You might argue that since I hate math I'll never succeed in programming. However that is simply not true. I know several people that don't know mathematics past 9th grade of High School, yet they hold well paying programming jobs. Looking at that, I gotta admit I am jealous, and I have no choice but to FORCE myself to learn programming, since I certainly don't want to work in McDonalds. And I probably couldn't, because I'm not very good at counting money quickly.

You always have a choice, stop making things so black and white. When it comes to ITy things, there are tons of fields available (that don't involve heavy math).

There were plenty of people in history that didn't like certain trades. Yet they eventually became good in those exact trades if they were forced to learn them for whatever reason.
There is a zen-like story about two mice that fell into a jar of milk. One mouse struggled for a while, but eventually gave up and drowned. The other kept struggling, beat the milk into butter and once it became solid, it got out... I want to see if I can be that 2nd mouse, because I was the 1st one in the past.

Go for it. But honestly, there is nothing that any of us can do to make it "fun" and "not boring". That is completely a personal preference (the point of what I wrote). Just realize that if you hate it now when you are learning, you are going to really hate it when you start getting into the daily grind of things.

Who knows, you might end up being good at it, however I don't think you'll last. People without a passion for programming often don't.

 

[werepossum]

I apologize to the OP if I am going off topic, but since we already arrived here...

Unfortunately, I don't really have a choice. The reason why I took up programming is because what I love to do doesn't pay, and cannot sustain a basic lifestyle. I love fixing computers. Taking them apart, putting them together, troubleshooting, answering people's questions, helping them fix their computers, etc, etc. I work in a tech support field, and I am good at it. There's hardly a problem I cannot solve. Sadly, that sort of thing doesn't pay. I really, really wish it did, and I cant see why it doesn't, but the fact remains is that it doesn't. And in a few years from now, it probably will not at all. (heh I guess I do see why it doesn't pay after all. I'm in denial, see?)

I always wanted to be a doctor, but I hate math. I was great at subjects like anatomy but I was horrible in math. And because of that I didn't become a doctor. I also wanted to be a lawyer, but even though I loved reading and memorizing theory, and got good grades, it was the damned math that stopped me.

So because I love computers I decided to try programming. You might argue that since I hate math I'll never succeed in programming. However that is simply not true. I know several people that don't know mathematics past 9th grade of High School, yet they hold well paying programming jobs. Looking at that, I gotta admit I am jealous, and I have no choice but to FORCE myself to learn programming, since I certainly don't want to work in McDonalds. And I probably couldn't, because I'm not very good at counting money quickly.

There were plenty of people in history that didn't like certain trades. Yet they eventually became good in those exact trades if they were forced to learn them for whatever reason.
There is a zen-like story about two mice that fell into a jar of milk. One mouse struggled for a while, but eventually gave up and drowned. The other kept struggling, beat the milk into butter and once it became solid, it got out... I want to see if I can be that 2nd mouse, because I was the 1st one in the past.

I don't think anyone is saying you can't succeed in programming; they are merely asking why you would choose to learn a trade you hate. Why make yourself miserable just for money? Surely there is something more to your liking that pays reasonably well. As Cogman says, a career in network administration or sys-ops might be more to your liking and probably require less retraining as well.

I too am looking to change careers, but I enjoy programming. But my opportunities now are limited to Lisp - not exactly a growth market - and I can't justify more than quick-n-dirty programs.

 

[Markbnj]

I don't think anyone is saying you can't succeed in programming; they are merely asking why you would choose to learn a trade you hate.

I'm saying that. I don't think you have much chance of being successful over time when you hate the thing you're doing. And I don't want to encourage another bored, un-motivated programmer to be born into the world. There are thousands of other professions at which you can earn a very good living, and OP should check one of them out.

 

[werepossum]

I'm saying that. I don't think you have much chance of being successful over time when you hate the thing you're doing. And I don't want to encourage another bored, un-motivated programmer to be born into the world. There are thousands of other professions at which you can earn a very good living, and OP should check one of them out.

😀 I stand corrected.

Maybe it's because he works for a quasi-governmental entity, but I do know a guy who makes a decent living as general tech support. But it isn't just hardware, he also knows networks and software sufficiently to solve most problems. PCs today are so darned simple I can't see anyone making much money just on hardware support.

 

[mkrohn]

I don't list programming as one of my favorite things in the world to do but the jobs of professional nipple tweaker seem to always be filled.

For the OP I would say start with "programming" basic crap like HTML and I don't mean WYSIWYG the good old notepad. Then when you get a good idea of what all those tags mean evolve to PHP. You can make some cash simply editing PHP scripts easier than anything else. a first year PHP guy can even go around building some dynamic content stuff that would lead to threads like this: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1773783

PC tech support while not a fantastic paying gig is brainless work that you can still consistently find in the double minimum wage bracket. The network admins is where most of those types go when they want more money. Some places have tiered support and the highest level support guys get decent pay but it takes time to work up and the ceiling for pay is simply too low in comparison to a programmer which doesn't have a ceiling but if the guy doesn't love it then he wont get that high anyway.

Things are different if you're actually creative enough to come up with ideas for apps.

 

[ionamartin123]

C is the best language for beginners. It is a procedure oriented language.This concepts are very easy to learn. All the things are basic. It is the foundation of all the languages. So you will start C language.

 

[cytg111]

Hi, I have next to zero knowledge when it comes to programming and would like to start to get into it. I think it would be an awesome skill to learn and is limitless in possibilities. I would like to know where I should start to learn programming? Is there a specific website to try, YouTube videos, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the general consensus is to start with C++ for some reason. Thanks for any help/input you have!
Rednal

First : Why? Why do you want to get into programming? Sorry to say, but a general "interest" in programming problary aint gonna cut it.

Find a problem that you'd like to solve.. That being tic-tac-toe or printing out "hello world" in a console is of little difference.

Set a goal. Move towards it. Succeed. Repeat.

 

[Jaydip]

C is the best language for beginners. It is a procedure oriented language.This concepts are very easy to learn. All the things are basic. It is the foundation of all the languages. So you will start C language.

Amen to that 🙂

 

[cytg111]

Amen to that 🙂

I would agree too, but! A language has to have a target, if we are talking windows there is just so much much much more on c++ on the web++ than c. Coding c on windows is not impossible but you have to jump thorugh some hoops + you'd be tied up against mcvsrt.dll which is something like 90%(?) of c89.

 

[Jaydip]

I would agree too, but! A language has to have a target, if we are talking windows there is just so much much much more on c++ on the web++ than c. Coding c on windows is not impossible but you have to jump thorugh some hoops + you'd be tied up against mcvsrt.dll which is something like 90%(?) of c89.

Yeah you are right.Now a days I almost exclusively code in C++ but after some time you realize that C++ is not a new language per se just C with some features tacked on.It didn't solve any of the issues with C but just created even more issues for us 🙂 I would recommend ruby if someone is interested in OOPS concepts(if C++ is too hard for them).C++ is fast , extremely efficient but somehow it's difficult to overlook the issues.

 

[Pia]

after some time you realize that C++ is not a new language per se just C with some features tacked on.It didn't solve any of the issues with C

You are joking, right? Templates alone solve a zillion issues with C, and good C++ code looks nothing like C code.

 

[Jaydip]

You are joking, right? Templates alone solve a zillion issues with C, and good C++ code looks nothing like C code.

Heh read carefully what I wrote.C++ sacrificed lots of flexibility just to become backwards compatible with C.Templates were added later, I hope you remember that.

 

[Pia]

Heh read carefully what I wrote.C++ sacrificed lots of flexibility just to become backwards compatible with C.Templates were added later, I hope you remember that.

What I was primarily protesting was your assertion "(C++) did not solve any issues with C". That's not even in the ballpark of being true.

That said, I also do not agree that "C++ is just C with some features tacked on". It's based on C and is highly compatible with C, of course, but what has been added to it makes it an entirely different language. There are even some features that C got from C++, so their relationship is not one way.

 

[cytg111]

Semi hijacking an old thread here as I dont think its worth another topic. The question is quite simple:
How do you see asm, or inline asm, being part of the future of x86 coding? AMD64 is having little attention on its own, and forget inlining it in your favorite C code ... So, is asm going away from our toolbox?

 

[Ken g6]

AMD64 is having little attention on its own, and forget inlining it in your favorite C code

What? Why forget inlining it in C? Because it won't work on ARM?

If you need a piece of assembly code to work on multiple platforms, you need to write one version for each platform, and probably place it in an #ifdef block.

 

[Jaydip]

What I was primarily protesting was your assertion "(C++) did not solve any issues with C". That's not even in the ballpark of being true.

That said, I also do not agree that "C++ is just C with some features tacked on". It's based on C and is highly compatible with C, of course, but what has been added to it makes it an entirely different language. There are even some features that C got from C++, so their relationship is not one way.

C++ solved some issues while introducing something new of it's own.C++ became popular because of the backward compatibility with C .There are tons of languages out there who takes oops concepts more seriously than C++. C definitely got some features from C++ but the list is very small.

 

[Pia]

C++ solved some issues while introducing something new of it's own.

The way you put that, those things sound equivalent. But the features C++ has over C fix truly massive deficiencies in C. Some of those features may be a bit clunky, but compared to what they fix, it's a molehill-mountain comparison.

C++ became popular because of the backward compatibility with C .

It became popular because it's a much better language to use for actually building things. If backward compatibility was the primary concern, people would have just stuck with C.

There are tons of languages out there who takes oops concepts more seriously than C++.

I don't see how that's relevant in the slightest in a comparison between C and C++.

 

[Jaydip]

The way you put that, those things sound equivalent. But the features C++ has over C fix truly massive deficiencies in C. Some of those features may be a bit clunky, but compared to what they fix, it's a molehill-mountain comparison.
It became popular because it's a much better language to use for actually building things. If backward compatibility was the primary concern, people would have just stuck with C.I don't see how that's relevant in the slightest in a comparison between C and C++.

C didn't have the luxury to follow in "C's" footsteps which C++ had.C++ made some improvements sure but I am not talking about oops here.I honestly don't find many of these improvements as intriguing as you do.That depends on the context, for some task I would prefer C over C++.That's very relevant because that is one of C++'s selling points.

 

[Mtt]

I think choice of programming language does not matter.
Pick a simple language like C, then pick up a book on algorithm.

This book is a good intro
http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-A...ords=algorithm

Programming language is like grammar. You dont learn English by just studying grammar.

 

[Chaotic42]

Besides I'm personally tired of all the CS grads these days that dont know anything about basic programming fundamentals because they skated through university on training wheels aka Java. Do they not require even a single machine architecture and organization course anymore?

CS grads at my university have to take x86 assembly and a course on computer architecture. Java is an elective.

 

[Obsoleet]

ibex333- Just get to it. I dabbled in programming all my life, but waited much to long to just dive in. If you have the interest, and the aptitude you'll find out quickly.. it's a sink or swim thing. Just get a book and start reading, work through the examples. Good luck, I hope you find what you want to do even if it doesn't end up being programming. There's plenty of networking jobs to consider as well if you look into router configuration and so forth. Those are good jobs and not going anywhere but up. Also, consider finishing a degree if you haven't already, that's going to help with life in general.

 

[Pia]

for some task I would prefer C over C++

For what tasks?

I honestly can't think of any reason to use C over C++, if a person already knows C++ and a C++ compiler is available. Templates, generic algorithms, constexpr, etc. are useful even in the lowest level code.

 

[Jaydip]

For what tasks?

I honestly can't think of any reason to use C over C++, if a person already knows C++ and a C++ compiler is available. Templates, generic algorithms, constexpr, etc. are useful even in the lowest level code.

Tasks which are very procedural in nature.

 

[Pia]

Tasks which are very procedural in nature.

I just don't get why you'd favor C for that either. The C++ code I'm currently writing is very much procedural, and almost every individual line relies on C++ features. Having to write it in C would bloat it probably to something like 3-5x as much code, much less readability, more bugs, less efficiency. And this is for very small individual apps; for a larger system the memory management stuff of C++ would just get more important.