New to 4K gaming, fail to see the big whoop

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
22,072
886
126
So, I bought a 55" 4k TCL Roku TV the other day to get into 4k gaming and movie watching. The only 4k discs I have is close encounters of the third kind so its a 40 year old movie remastered to 4k. Looks great but not a real test IMO. Now, gaming. I have a 4790k based PC with 32gb ram and an RX480. Kicked GTAV to corresponding resolution and maxxed all settings taking nearly all 8gb on my GPU. Runs like molasses so I kick settings down to med/high looks good and plays well. I fail to see a dif from FHD to 4k. Overwatch, Destiny 2, Fallout 4 all play and look great at 4k and maxed settings but I'm not getting the big deal. Am I just a blind old fart? Going from VHS to DVD was massive. Going from DVD to BR was massive, going from BR to UHD/4K, meh.
 

JoeBleed

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2000
1,408
30
91
could be going blind. but really, i don't see much difference when i tried it. plus when i run in 4k i can't read text if the game or application doesn't respect dpi settings or scale the font accordingly. but what i read, with 4k resolution you should be able to dial back or turn off the AA settings and still have a good looking image due to the number of pixels. which makes it easier on the card. I have a gtx970.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
4,129
939
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isn't that like a $500 Chinese TV? GTAV PC doesn't run well regardless, so it's not a good example.

your GPU is the weak point... RX480 is a mainstream card and not a enthusiast GPU. also, unless the game has 4K textures available you can't really tell the difference. I would also make sure it's not simply scaling up the image.
 

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
22,072
886
126
isn't that like a $500 Chinese TV? GTAV PC doesn't run well regardless, so it's not a good example.

your GPU is the weak point... RX480 is a mainstream card and not a enthusiast GPU. also, unless the game has 4K textures available you can't really tell the difference. I would also make sure it's not simply scaling up the image.
Yeah, $419 at costco. :) Other than GTAV running like ass all the other mentioned games run great. I did check and they are all running at 4K resolutions.
 

mnewsham

Lifer
Oct 2, 2010
14,539
428
136
I've used an LG 43" 4k monitor at my friends house and it's great. Seated about 2.5 feet away and it's basically most of your field of view. Very crisp looking. Played a bit of counter strike and it was pretty damn immersive compared to my normal 25" 1440p setup.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
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If you're gaming on something that large you most likely sit too far away to notice the resolution difference. Most PC gamers have monitors not far away from their face.
 
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Elcs

Diamond Member
Apr 27, 2002
6,278
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I have a nice 1080p TV and run 1440p VSR and rarely 1800p VSR. I notice the difference but still feel the need to crank up the AA to keep jaggies at bay.

4k is 2160p, I think and you should notice a difference if you play a game on 1080p then switch the settings to 4k.

Unless you compare your previous resolution to the new resolution on your new device then you're comparing a Memory Apple with a Live Pear.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,082
136
I remember going from 320x240 to 640x480 and being impressed.
I remember going from 640x480 to 800x600 and being impressed.
I remember going from 800x600 to 1024x768 and being impressed.
I remember going to 1600x1200 and being impressed.

After that I wasn't much impressed.
I'd be happier with games that are fun. Or, failing that, finished.
 

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
22,072
886
126
I have a nice 1080p TV and run 1440p VSR and rarely 1800p VSR. I notice the difference but still feel the need to crank up the AA to keep jaggies at bay.

4k is 2160p, I think and you should notice a difference if you play a game on 1080p then switch the settings to 4k.

Unless you compare your previous resolution to the new resolution on your new device then you're comparing a Memory Apple with a Live Pear.
Probably this.
 

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
22,072
886
126
I remember going from 320x240 to 640x480 and being impressed.
I remember going from 640x480 to 800x600 and being impressed.
I remember going from 800x600 to 1024x768 and being impressed.
I remember going to 1600x1200 and being impressed.

After that I wasn't much impressed.
I'd be happier with games that are fun. Or, failing that, finished.
I remember going from 16 color EGA to 256 color VGA. The game was called "If it moves, shoot it". And it came on 16 color EGA and 256 color VGA diskettes. When I got rid of my old EGA ISA card and went VGA it was a huge improvement.
 

mnewsham

Lifer
Oct 2, 2010
14,539
428
136
Around 8-9 feet.
That's about 2x too far away.

u5KkwTe.png


for 55" 4k you want to be ~3-5 feet.

For 40-43" (dell and LG both have 4k monitors in this size range) you'd want ~2.5-4 feet viewing distance.

With 55" and 8-9 foot viewing distance you're at the point where everything will look like 1080p no matter what.
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,539
287
126
www.the-teh.com
I remember going from 16 color EGA to 256 color VGA. The game was called "If it moves, shoot it". And it came on 16 color EGA and 256 color VGA diskettes. When I got rid of my old EGA ISA card and went VGA it was a huge improvement.

Is that why old games were playable? Now I can never understand how I played them as they look like mud. Even fairly modern games like Populas is unplayable for me.
 

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
22,072
886
126
That's about 2x too far away.

u5KkwTe.png


for 55" 4k you want to be ~3-5 feet.

For 40-43" (dell and LG both have 4k monitors in this size range) you'd want ~2.5-4 feet viewing distance.

With 55" and 8-9 foot viewing distance you're at the point where everything will look like 1080p no matter what.
Well there you go. I'll have to move closer I guess.
 

BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
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I fail to see a dif from FHD to 4k. Overwatch, Destiny 2, Fallout 4 all play and look great at 4k and maxed settings but I'm not getting the big deal. Am I just a blind old fart? Going from VHS to DVD was massive. Going from DVD to BR was massive, going from BR to UHD/4K, meh.
You're not blind, it's just the resolution rat-race has always been about depreciating gains (and increasingly requiring larger screens and shorter view distances to maintain the same "expectation level" of improvement vs previous jumps). As you said, a decent 1080p Blu-Ray vs 4K on an average sized set sitting at normal view distances is nothing remotely like VHS vs DVD vs Blu-Ray. The biggest 4K gains come from projection systems or huge +70" TV's or sitting closer to them like PC monitors.

For gaming on a TV from 8-10ft, you're going to notice less fine detail vs using it as a monitor from 2-3ft. Like the others I would say "sit closer", but if you don't feel comfortable with that, then don't. Resolution vs screen size vs viewing distance comfort can be highly subjective, and I knew a few people who bought a huge 40" 4K monitor to sit a normal 2-3ft distance from only to find it too uncomfortable to sit that close to and ended up swapping it for a either a smaller 1440P/4K 32" screen, or an 34" ultrawide with less height. Sitting 3-4ft from a +50" TV has exactly the same irritating effect for many, especially for longer sessions. Given an RX 480 card, I would personally just stick to 1080p at 8-9ft to get a solid 60fps.
 
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local

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2011
1,852
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I haven't gamed at 4k but have watched tv on my 70" that is about 10' away. At first I didn't notice much and if I got get really close it looked great but when I switched back to 1080 it looked a little blurry even from 10' so now I notice it. So basically going to 4k was meh but going back to 1080 from 4k was an obvious downgrade.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,449
264
126
Even at 1-2ft on my 32" 4K, I don't notice a *massive* difference... depends on what it is I suppose. But when I'm playing a game I don't really focus on those smaller details. In either case the game looks great to me and that's all I care about.

I really only have 4K for the productivity at this point. Otherwise, it's a big GPU requirement.
 

Elcs

Diamond Member
Apr 27, 2002
6,278
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That's about 2x too far away.

u5KkwTe.png


for 55" 4k you want to be ~3-5 feet.

For 40-43" (dell and LG both have 4k monitors in this size range) you'd want ~2.5-4 feet viewing distance.

With 55" and 8-9 foot viewing distance you're at the point where everything will look like 1080p no matter what.

I must be reading this wrong. I can definitely see the difference between 1080p and 1440p (on a 42" 1080p screen using VSR) at a distance of around 8 foot. However moving my TV even half a foot closer last night I can see a slight difference and the immersion is certainly improved.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,244
557
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Also remember that you will not see much improvements within a game until the game is using textures designed for 4k (without the textures, the only real improvement will be seen on object edges with curved and non-linear lines having finer drawling blocks to produce a smoother looking image for the object, but the textures map will still be at 1920x1080 or less and simply upscaled to 4k). And even then, to game at 4k, the textures should be designed at a higher resolution, such as 16k, so that when they are cut/zoomed/stitched onto the various models they will still be at a resolution that can be downsized to 4k.

You won't really see this outside of player mods or a few games because it is too performance intensive (really memory size and bandwidth intensive) especially for consoles which can still bairly output 1080p...
 
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Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,202
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Also remember that you will not see much improvements within a game until the game is using textures designed for 4k (without the textures, the only real improvement will be seen on object edges with curved and non-linear lines having finer drawling blocks to produce a smoother looking image for the object, but the textures map will still be at 1920x1080 or less and simply upscaled to 4k). And even then, to game at 4k, the textures should be designed at a higher resolution, such as 16k, so that when they are cut/zoomed/stitched onto the various models they will still be at a resolution that can be downsized to 4k.

You won't really see this outside of player mods or a few games because it is too performance intensive (really memory size and bandwidth intensive) especially for consoles which can still bairly output 1080p...

Indeed.

There's modern games coming out today still with 512x512 textures all over the place (on objects, the environments, characters, etc) and some of them aren't even ports from aging or limited consoles, like Nintendo's for instance (purely talking about hardware limitations here, not games quality). The gist is even some exclusives to PC, or exclusives to more powerful consoles to this very day aren't even "fully developed" for 1080p; even if 1080p is definitely an industry standard and has been so for quite long by now. I don't think that even 5 years from now 4K will be 'a thing' in most games (at least textures-wise). It takes a LOT of time and generations of hardware before making leaps like that (especially for developers, and even more so for smaller Indie devs with less money and resources) and establish new standards that end up applied everywhere (and on all "capable") platforms and from everyone.

I mean how long did it take for 1024x768 to be 'flushed out' of the way? Even when people moved to 1920x1080 monitors, many stayed with their CRTs at 4:3 ratios. I, myself, bought my 24" 1080p monitor only in 2015. I literally stayed on my CRT from 2003-04 (not sure which exact year) until that point and barely switched my resolutions. At first I stayed at 1024x768 (at the time I even played some games at 800x600, such as Diablo 2 and StarCraft 1), then increased it a bit every now and then; like going to 1280x960 by the late 2000s as I saw more and more games going on higher resolutions. By around 2012 or so I 'bumped' it up a bit to nearly 1080p (at 900p) since it was capable of 1920x1440, so I created custom resolutions in nearly all my games to play them at 1920x900. That (having to create custom resolutions) became my 'cue' for "hey, maybe it's time now, no?", and decided to go for it finally. After my purchase, started to game at the proper native 1080p on the games I used to play on 900p and only realized fast enough that the only real difference is that I had more physical screen space horizontally and... that was about it. In SOME few select games I could see better details here and there, sure; it's not like the change meant absolutely nothing. There's always some of them that will 'benefit' from such "new" or well-established industry standards but not all of them do. I WAS, however, satisfied with watching movies in true 1080p Blue-Ray HD quality. But, purely for gaming? I'd say by now in 2017 the best thing to do is to simply move closer to my monitor if I want to look at details... and I'm not even joking. I HAVE actually seen 4K gaming in action and I mean... sure it's not "ugly" or anything, it's just... larger? It's more... "clear" maybe? Placebo? Maybe not, some games are being designed with 4K in mind now but... yeah, most of them aren't.

The 'real' current benefit of 4K nowadays is almost exclusively for watching movies on UHD televisions (which on a side note IS impressive; having seen that myself a few times too).
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
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isn't that like a $500 Chinese TV? GTAV PC doesn't run well regardless, so it's not a good example.

your GPU is the weak point... RX480 is a mainstream card and not a enthusiast GPU. also, unless the game has 4K textures available you can't really tell the difference. I would also make sure it's not simply scaling up the image.
I was going to say basically this. Garbage TV will provide garbage picture, and a 480 isn't enough to really push 4K on newer games. 4K isn't the what's disappointing, here.

Yeah, $419 at costco. :) Other than GTAV running like ass all the other mentioned games run great. I did check and they are all running at 4K resolutions.
Resolution and textures are two different things.
 

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
22,072
886
126
I was going to say basically this. Garbage TV will provide garbage picture, and a 480 isn't enough to really push 4K on newer games. 4K isn't the what's disappointing, here.


Resolution and textures are two different things.
Just because I didn't spend 3k on a TV makes mine garbage. And the 480 is just fine for 4k.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
4,129
939
136
the RX 480 will run 4K fine, but that doesn't mean it will provide the best possible visuals...