New thread about the South and Racism

[Mill]

I do not wish this thread to turn into flames. I wanted to say that first. I am tired of people saying the South is a bastion of racism. Most of those people have never been here, nor were there for more than a few hours or days. The reason I say this, is I have a friend that works for a local business that was bought out by a company in California. They sent their management here to start managing the business. I have heard stories from more than one person there, that they cannot stand anyone black. They have been refusing to rehire past black workers or new black workers. Any workers that were already there in a position are harassed by the management and fired at the drop of a hat. Now, it wouldn't be fair for me to characterize Californians as racist would it? That is all I have to say.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I live in what qualifies as the south, and while I can't say it's any more or less racist than anywhere else, I can say there is a lot of racism here, and it's certainly not limited ot the white folks.

 

[Insane3D]

Is a new thread really needed just because you didn't like someone's responses in the original one? If every thread in this forum was restarted because the poster didn't like the replies, it would be quite cluttered.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
Is a new thread really needed just because you didn't like someone's responses in the original one? If every thread in this forum was restarted because the poster didn't like the replies, it would be quite cluttered.

I asked him to not derail it. He continued. What else can I do? I tried to salvage it by giving him the outlet he needs.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Insane3D
Is a new thread really needed just because you didn't like someone's responses in the original one? If every thread in this forum was restarted because the poster didn't like the replies, it would be quite cluttered.

I asked him to not derail it. He continued. What else can I do? I tried to salvage it by giving him the outlet he needs.

Understandable, but he will likely just come in here and start the same thing again.

 

[Syringer]

How hard is it to simply ignore his posts?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Syringer
How hard is it to simply ignore his posts?

Fairly easy, but the thread would have been derailed even if I would not have answered him.

 

[SuperTool]

It's only racism if it's prejudice. If it's based on past experiences...

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
It's only racism if it's prejudice. If it's based on past experiences...

Elaborate please.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
It's only racism if it's prejudice. If it's based on past experiences...

OK... so are you saying it's only racism (bad) if you judge a group without prior experience with them... but it's not racism (not bad) if you judge a group after you've encountered members of that group? Judging an entire group based on your experience with a few members of that group is still prejudice. If I met a black guy named Carl who is always rude, I could dislike Carl, but I shouldn't dislike all black people or assume they're all rude like Carl. Even if I know a lot of black people who are rude to me, I can't judge the whole group based on a subset of the group. You take each person as an individual who, as a member of certain groups (race, sex, religion) may or may not possess traits common in those groups. (No I didn't just imply that rudeness is common among black people)

 

[Nitemare]

Did the other thread get deleted? Can't find it

It's only racist when you treat a group/person differently because of the color of their skin or ethnic background. This is why I see Affirmative Action as racist

 

[Alistar7]

where are all the white women?

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii

Originally posted by: SuperTool
It's only racism if it's prejudice. If it's based on past experiences...

OK... so are you saying it's only racism (bad) if you judge a group without prior experience with them... but it's not racism (not bad) if you judge a group after you've encountered members of that group? Judging an entire group based on your experience with a few members of that group is still prejudice. If I met a black guy named Carl who is always rude, I could dislike Carl, but I shouldn't dislike all black people or assume they're all rude like Carl. Even if I know a lot of black people who are rude to me, I can't judge the whole group based on a subset of the group. You take each person as an individual who, as a member of certain groups (race, sex, religion) may or may not possess traits common in those groups. (No I didn't just imply that rudeness is common among black people)

I didn't say it's not bad, but our past experiences do shape us. And yes, everyone is different. And I do have a black best friend, and when we went shopping the first time, I was affraid he was going to steal something But I got over it.
We all have our own prejudices and past experiences shaping us, and I don't think that in itself should be a thought crime, unless it translates into some illegal action.

 

[Alistar7]

you thought he would steal something because he was black? oh my.....



one last time, sorry, pet peeve, racism and prejudice are not the same thing.

a bigot is someone who holds prejudice.

a racist is someone who uses their power or position of authority to advance their bigoted viewpoint.


They are closely related, but not the same thing. Right now who runs the major corps? Average age of a fortune 500 CEO? That generation was raised during segregation by parents who lived through even worse times for minorities. How many African Americans in the south alone are over 50 yrs. old? Think they forget the last lynching, or the fact that nobody ever was brought to justice no matter what was done to them. I'm suprised things are as good as they are honestly. Thankfully to be largely successfull today you must be intelligent, the enemy of prejudice (ignorance with a heavy dose of natural social physch learned at an early age) and the "old boys" are all leaving the scene.

You see way more cross marriages and dating today, the youth don't seem to have the issues with race as much which is even more encouraging. I still think every person born in the US should be given a breakdown of their genetic history by race. We have fairly high levels of African American geneology in us from our lovely recent past, and it's even higher in the south. Consdering man as we know it started on the continent of Africa, whether you beleive in evolution or God, we are all descendant from dark skinned people. Either that or change the gene pool so everyone comes out blue with marge simpson hair.....

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
I live in what qualifies as the south, and while I can't say it's any more or less racist than anywhere else, I can say there is a lot of racism here, and it's certainly not limited ot the white folks.

The US is a racist country.

 

[KAMAZON]

Originally posted by: Millennium
I do not wish this thread to turn into flames. I wanted to say that first. I am tired of people saying the South is a bastion of racism. Most of those people have never been here, nor were there for more than a few hours or days. The reason I say this, is I have a friend that works for a local business that was bought out by a company in California. They sent their management here to start managing the business. I have heard stories from more than one person there, that they cannot stand anyone black. They have been refusing to rehire past black workers or new black workers. Any workers that were already there in a position are harassed by the management and fired at the drop of a hat. Now, it wouldn't be fair for me to characterize Californians as racist would it? That is all I have to say.

In states such as Alabama, If you were black in the early 1960s, you could note vote unless:

1.) You had 3 rich white men come with you to say it's OK to vote.
2.) You had to own a car, which they wouldn't sell you if you didn't have insurance (Black people didn't get insurance)
3.) You had to cross a bridge (Edmund Pettis Bridge) to either register, or go to vote. Black people were not allowed to cross this bridge. (this is where the massacre "Bloody Sunday" happened)
4.) Once you actually got to the voting polls, you were beat up.


So, let's recap. To go vote, you would need 3 (very courageous) rich white men to accompany a black person in his car that he can't buy to cross a bridge that you can't cross if you're black, get past the billy clubs, go in, and THEN, Finally, vote. *Phew*. In some states such as Virginia, Negro Lynching did not become outlawed untill the 1920s! (It was rarely observed or carried out).


Lyndon LaRouches running mate, Rev. James Bevel and VP of his wifes Schiller Institute, Amelia Boynton Robinson, both lived in Selma, Alabama and orgnaized the Civil Rights Movement out of her home. The funny thing is, LaRouche is smeared as a rascist, but his co-workers are the true civil rights leaders. Amelia Boynton Robinson was the first African-American Female to run for congress in Alabama, and got over 10% of the vote. She ran because her hausband was beat to death and his last words to her were 'get the people to vote'! She started the movement well before that however. In the 1960s, she led the crossing of the Edmund Pettis bridge, and the KKK (Police) were waiting to beat her. They thought she was dead, and left. She stayed alive. She invited Dr. King to her home, and with LaRouches running mate, Rev. James Bevel, they organized the Civil Rights Movement out of her home. They passed the 1965 voters acts rights, and After Dr. King was assassinated, she joined up with Lyndon LaRouche, and she adopted LaRouches wife, as her own daughter.

Sad thing is Joe Lieberman/Al Gore nullified the 1965 voters acts rights to kick out LaRouche and the civil rights leaders.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: KAMAZON

Originally posted by: Millennium
I do not wish this thread to turn into flames. I wanted to say that first. I am tired of people saying the South is a bastion of racism. Most of those people have never been here, nor were there for more than a few hours or days. The reason I say this, is I have a friend that works for a local business that was bought out by a company in California. They sent their management here to start managing the business. I have heard stories from more than one person there, that they cannot stand anyone black. They have been refusing to rehire past black workers or new black workers. Any workers that were already there in a position are harassed by the management and fired at the drop of a hat. Now, it wouldn't be fair for me to characterize Californians as racist would it? That is all I have to say.

In states such as Alabama, If you were black in the early 1960s, you could note vote unless:

1.) You had 3 rich white men come with you to say it's OK to vote.
2.) You had to own a car, which they wouldn't sell you if you didn't have insurance (Black people didn't get insurance)
3.) You had to cross a bridge (Edmund Pettis Bridge) to either register, or go to vote. Black people were not allowed to cross this bridge. (this is where the massacre "Bloody Sunday" happened)
4.) Once you actually got to the voting polls, you were beat up.


So, let's recap. To go vote, you would need 3 (very courageous) rich white men to accompany a black person in his car that he can't buy to cross a bridge that you can't cross if you're black, get past the billy clubs, go in, and THEN, Finally, vote. *Phew*. In some states such as Virginia, Negro Lynching did not become outlawed untill the 1920s! (It was rarely observed or carried out).


Lyndon LaRouches running mate, Rev. James Bevel and VP of his wifes Schiller Institute, Amelia Boynton Robinson, both lived in Selma, Alabama and orgnaized the Civil Rights Movement out of her home. The funny thing is, LaRouche is smeared as a rascist, but his co-workers are the true civil rights leaders. Amelia Boynton Robinson was the first African-American Female to run for congress in Alabama, and got over 10% of the vote. She ran because her hausband was beat to death and his last words to her were 'get the people to vote'! She started the movement well before that however. In the 1960s, she led the crossing of the Edmund Pettis bridge, and the KKK (Police) were waiting to beat her. They thought she was dead, and left. She stayed alive. She invited Dr. King to her home, and with LaRouches running mate, Rev. James Bevel, they organized the Civil Rights Movement out of her home. They passed the 1965 voters acts rights, and After Dr. King was assassinated, she joined up with Lyndon LaRouche, and she adopted LaRouches wife, as her own daughter.

Sad thing is Joe Lieberman/Al Gore nullified the 1965 voters acts rights to kick out LaRouche and the civil rights leaders.

LaRouche didn't do a goddamn thing for civil rights in Alabama. Secondly, you didn't have to own a car or cross a bridge. Quit spamming the forums with your LaRouche crap, especially when it is dead wrong.

 

[KAMAZON]

LaRouche didn't do a goddamn thing for civil rights in Alabama. Secondly, you didn't have to own a car or cross a bridge. Quit spamming the forums with your LaRouche crap, especially when it is dead wrong.

I said in the early 1960s, not today buddy. Did you understand that I said LaRouches running mate, Rev. James Bevel and the VP of LaRouches organization Amelia Boynton Robinson ran the civil rights movement in Alabama.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Did the other thread get deleted? Can't find it

It's only racist when you treat a group/person differently because of the color of their skin or ethnic background. This is why I see Affirmative Action as racist

I'll bet you're white...

As a result of years of slavery, followed by segregation and discrimination, blacks are at an economic disadvantage, and whites are at an economic advantage. On top of that, racism (consciously or subconsciously) still exists among people who are responsible for hiring decisions. Those people are predominantly white. Combine those two things, and whites have an overwhelming advantage in trying to find jobs. Affirmative action merely takes away a PART of this advantage; whites still have an intrinsic advantage no matter how you look at it. So no, affirmative action is not racist.

White people who complain about affirmative action have no idea how difficult it is for black people to find good jobs.

I read in USA Today the other day that unemployment among white teens in the workforce is about 15% this year; for black teens in the workforce it is double that. Is that because whites are more deserving of the jobs? No. More likely it's because of geography (with blacks tending to live in lower-income areas). But those kids that don't have jobs now will have trouble later because of their lack of experience. White people have the advantage.

If you're a white person looking for a job, you most likely know a lot of other white people, and because they're white they're more likely to have good jobs and are more likely to be in a position to help you in your job hunt. Poor black people tend to network with other poor black people, so they have less opportunity to get a good job. Are blacks poorer than whites because they are in some way inferior to whites? No way. They're poor because they have historically faced greater obstacles than whites, and as a result they tend to have less economic mobility than whites.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: KAMAZON

LaRouche didn't do a goddamn thing for civil rights in Alabama. Secondly, you didn't have to own a car or cross a bridge. Quit spamming the forums with your LaRouche crap, especially when it is dead wrong.

I said in the early 1960s, not today buddy. Did you understand that I said LaRouches running mate, Rev. James Bevel and the VP of LaRouches organization Amelia Boynton Robinson ran the civil rights movement in Alabama.

That is like saying "I have a black friend, so I can't be racist." It doesn't work like that.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Did the other thread get deleted? Can't find it

It's only racist when you treat a group/person differently because of the color of their skin or ethnic background. This is why I see Affirmative Action as racist

I'll bet you're white...

As a result of years of slavery, followed by segregation and discrimination, blacks are at an economic disadvantage, and whites are at an economic advantage. On top of that, racism (consciously or subconsciously) still exists among people who are responsible for hiring decisions. Those people are predominantly white. Combine those two things, and whites have an overwhelming advantage in trying to find jobs. Affirmative action merely takes away a PART of this advantage; whites still have an intrinsic advantage no matter how you look at it. So no, affirmative action is not racist.

White people who complain about affirmative action have no idea how difficult it is for black people to find good jobs.

I read in USA Today the other day that unemployment among white teens in the workforce is about 15% this year; for black teens in the workforce it is double that. Is that because whites are more deserving of the jobs? No. More likely it's because of geography (with blacks tending to live in lower-income areas). But those kids that don't have jobs now will have trouble later because of their lack of experience. White people have the advantage.

If you're a white person looking for a job, you most likely know a lot of other white people, and because they're white they're more likely to have good jobs and are more likely to be in a position to help you in your job hunt. Poor black people tend to network with other poor black people, so they have less opportunity to get a good job. Are blacks poorer than whites because they are in some way inferior to whites? No way. They're poor because they have historically faced greater obstacles than whites, and as a result they tend to have less economic mobility than whites.

I don't believe this to be true. Most SMART managers and employers hire someone on qualifications, and race is not a factor. You are saying that it is a self-perpetuating cycle that only blacks go through. I don't buy that at all. There are tons of asians, latinos, and poor whites that are just as disadvantaged, yet they somehow make it. So how is that possible? How do these latinos, asians, and whites make it, but the blacks don't? In reality they DO make it, but there is still poverty. African Americans compose around 10% of the population in the US. and much higher in the South. Chances are that they have higher unemployment than asians or hispanics, because there are more. Do you have a link to back up that claim that black teens face 30% unemployment?

It comes to one simple fact. People who want to work will, and those who don't will cry about discrimination or being disadvantaged. Capitalism requires that someone only stay at a job if they like it, and employers only keep you if you produce. I just quit my job because of management. Fvck those people. They were screwing me over, so I left. Everyone is free to do the same.

Most hispanic day laborers are modern day indentured servants, yet somehow their next generation makes it. Why are they able to, and others not? Is it really because they are at a disadvantage or is it because some people just don't like having their handouts and discriminations suits taken away? This goes for any person regardless of race or gender. Some people just don't want to do anything.

 

[MrChicken]

Having lived in the DC, Dallas, Phoenix and Memphis areas over the last 20 years and only based on personal experience...
Listed by order I lived there, furthest past to recent.

DC: By far the most racist area I have lived in. Everybody hated everybody else.

Dallas: Minor white/black racism, same with white/latino/black racism.

Phoenix: Almost none at the time, just a touch towards latinos and blacks (of which there were very few in the area)

Memphis: seems that there is a lot less less racism than I expected when I moved here, about like Dallas, but only with Black/White and almost no other racism.

I havent lived in DC for nearly 20 years, so it may have improved alot since then.


On to the "off topic" discussion.
One thing that i hate to see and hear is the way the so called leaders of the Black community portray blacks.

They are constantly saying things like (and true they may be):
Blacks have poor educations, or nearly no education due to dropouts.
Blacks have higher incidents of drug use.
Blacks have more young in jail.

If you are a hiring manager, this has to affect you, at least on the subconscious level. If you are a Black person, that has to affect you too.
IMHO, they should building up the community for all to see, but we never here of teh successful people that rise up from the ashes, only the tragedies.

A couple of years ago a big deal was made that it was "racist" because a couple of dozen black 12th graders couldnt pass the state exam necessary for graduation. The local school board said that their goal was to provide students with an 8th grade education by the time they left the public school system. Consider if you were hiring a teen for your company and they went to that school system.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Millennium


I don't believe this to be true. Most SMART managers and employers hire someone on qualifications, and race is not a factor.

I don't really agree. It would be nice if it were this way, but at least subconsciously a white hiring manager will probably favor a person. But like I was saying, it also has to do with their current state of poverty. They receive a sub-standard (or rather, piss-poor) public education, and have little chance of going to a good college. Some of it probably is psychological though - they see their black skin and think they have no chance to succeed, so why try?

You are saying that it is a self-perpetuating cycle that only blacks go through. I don't buy that at all. There are tons of asians, latinos, and poor whites that are just as disadvantaged, yet they somehow make it. So how is that possible? How do these latinos, asians, and whites make it, but the blacks don't? In reality they DO make it, but there is still poverty. African Americans compose around 10% of the population in the US. and much higher in the South. Chances are that they have higher unemployment than asians or hispanics, because there are more. Do you have a link to back up that claim that black teens face 30% unemployment?

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2003-06-08-teen-work_x.htm My bad, it was 37% for blacks. Note that this is teens in the workforce. IIRC, that's just people who are actually looking for jobs, right? So it's not about lack of motivation; the blacks want the jobs, they just can't find them.

Asians are the only minority group that is on par with whites economically (but still, you don't often see Asians in upper management).

I don't think we should be giving minorities handouts because we offended them or something, but we ought to be working toward a time when equal opportunity really does mean equal opportunity. Affirmative action is not about giving blacks jobs they don't deserve or aren't qualified for, but if there are two equally qualified candidates for the job, one white and one a minority, it favors the minority. In your post you alluded to the fact that a minority would have to work a lot harder to get to a level of parity with whites. I think I'd rather have a hard-working minority than a white person who had everything handed to him working for me anyway.

My main point though was that whites have an advantage in finding good jobs, and affirmative action is meant to level the playing field. Do you agree or disagree about that?

 

[LeadMagnet]

I have herd of studies on racism where the researchers found that whites are more tolerant of all other races (Asian, Latino, Indian, ect ...) besides blacks. Meaning that whites didn't mind living next to / working with /socializing with other races that are not black. One of the theories was because the other ones migrated to the USA like the whites in search of a better life for their kids.

After hearing this I began to think about my current middle class neighborhood in the north east and it is very true. Same with the technology company where I work. Sorry I don not have a link for the study ,but I belive it was one of those Dateline reports.


spelling edit

 

[KAMAZON]

That is like saying "I have a black friend, so I can't be racist." It doesn't work like that.

LaRouches Africa Development plan is the only one of it's kind to develop Africa so they aren't slaughtered for cheap labor and their resources anymore, LaRouche continues the civil rights movements fight today, and like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., the fight isn't about just black people, but to bring the ideas of the american revolution (Life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness; and that ALL men are created equal) to the world.