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New tax plan shifts higher taxes onto lower waged workers
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WinkOsmosis
Banned
Yes it takes brains. Not everyone is as smart as you. Is that their fault? Working for minimum wage, saving for decades, will not make you rich. Putting your kids through college does not make you rich. It improves their condition, but what makes you think a kid living in the ghetto has a good chance at light anyway? There is no way out of the ghetto. I went to middle school with these kids. I know how they think.
KK
Lifer
And they do. And they will. With a flat tax the rich will still pay their share which will be more than any poor person who uses the more benefits that the government has to offer. Well let's just keep it at the rich will end up paying their fair share. We need a poll to see who is in favor of a flat tax and what party they're mostly likely to vote for. I think we all know how that would probably turn out.
KK
I will tell you this, hardwork and being frugal goes a long way for raising one out of poverty. While laziness and excess will guarantee poverty. Not everyone is born with great intelect, but there is good money to made without being a rocket scientist. If you make minimum wage all your life, you only yourself to blame.
Complete and absolute BULLSH!T. Read my post in the Ben Stein thread for a more thorough explanation.
Bottom line is - you have TO WANT TO succeed. My fiancee and I both had the same exact opportunities available to us as what others in our grade school/high schools did. Same classes, same teachers, same everything. We made something of ourselves, others from our classes didn't.
That's not a failure on the schools, town's, anyone else's fault, it rests soley on the individual.
Michael
Elite member
BaliBabyDoc
A few points:
In order to be honest, I will admit to being in the top 1%-5% according to IRS calculations (top 10% starts at close to $90K. This is from Adjusted Gross Income line in the tax return). This is on my income alone. My wife is an MD, but she quit work mid-way through this year to spend more time with our 2 kids. We live in a high cost area (in the SF Bay area), but I will never complain about how much I make.
I am a Canadian who moved to the US (now live in CA) and I think taxes in the USA are low.
1) FICA/Social Security tops out because the benefit tops out. If you remove the soft cap, then the tax becomes increasingly unfair. According to the current program, I'll be paid back what someone making $87K would be paid back and pay the same taxes
2) It is highly unlikely that I will have to use Medicare until I retire and am older. Although I am pretty right wing in many of my points of view, I am actually for socialized medicine (this may shock some that I have sparred with on these boards) and have no issue paying taxes for medicare.
3) I do not mind paying taxes and I do not mind the "progressive" system currently in place. However, I do mind exempting more and more people from paying any taxes at all. I think this is a dangerous move for society as I think it is important that people pay into the cost of the government they elect.
4) You are completely wrong about the valuation of different jobs (firemen, teachers, etc.). The wages are set in the open market and everyone is fairly free to chose what job they want to do (granted, some professions have high educational and other hurdles). I think that people, in general, get paid what they deserve.
5) I have different views than you on the value of military spending and having bases overseas. I have read your posts over time and will not make the effort to debate you on your views as they appear to be both fairly set in your mind and seem to use a value/belief system that I do not agree with. There are far more items of spending I would cut before I would cut military spending. For example, I would cut all public funding of the arts before I would cut military spending.
6) As much as I would enjoy seeing tax accountants out of work all over the country as a result of flat income taxes, that is not the main reason why I would prefer a "flatter" system. I think that there is too much social engineering in the current system. This should be removed and but into the budget to be debated, not hidden in the tax system.
Michael
A few points:
In order to be honest, I will admit to being in the top 1%-5% according to IRS calculations (top 10% starts at close to $90K. This is from Adjusted Gross Income line in the tax return). This is on my income alone. My wife is an MD, but she quit work mid-way through this year to spend more time with our 2 kids. We live in a high cost area (in the SF Bay area), but I will never complain about how much I make.
I am a Canadian who moved to the US (now live in CA) and I think taxes in the USA are low.
1) FICA/Social Security tops out because the benefit tops out. If you remove the soft cap, then the tax becomes increasingly unfair. According to the current program, I'll be paid back what someone making $87K would be paid back and pay the same taxes
2) It is highly unlikely that I will have to use Medicare until I retire and am older. Although I am pretty right wing in many of my points of view, I am actually for socialized medicine (this may shock some that I have sparred with on these boards) and have no issue paying taxes for medicare.
3) I do not mind paying taxes and I do not mind the "progressive" system currently in place. However, I do mind exempting more and more people from paying any taxes at all. I think this is a dangerous move for society as I think it is important that people pay into the cost of the government they elect.
4) You are completely wrong about the valuation of different jobs (firemen, teachers, etc.). The wages are set in the open market and everyone is fairly free to chose what job they want to do (granted, some professions have high educational and other hurdles). I think that people, in general, get paid what they deserve.
5) I have different views than you on the value of military spending and having bases overseas. I have read your posts over time and will not make the effort to debate you on your views as they appear to be both fairly set in your mind and seem to use a value/belief system that I do not agree with. There are far more items of spending I would cut before I would cut military spending. For example, I would cut all public funding of the arts before I would cut military spending.
6) As much as I would enjoy seeing tax accountants out of work all over the country as a result of flat income taxes, that is not the main reason why I would prefer a "flatter" system. I think that there is too much social engineering in the current system. This should be removed and but into the budget to be debated, not hidden in the tax system.
Michael
Yes. Because they can afford to pay more, and because they benefit more from living in this country, they should pay more. If I run my own business, and I make lots of money selling products, these products travel over infrastructure that taxpayer money paid for. If it wasn't for that infrastructure I would not have been able to sell my products. Therefore since I profit more than other people from the taxpayer paid infrastructure, I should pay more taxes.
Last thing I want to say is that if come election day people are seeing their taxes increased after being promised tax cuts by the GOP, it will be Dubya's "Read my lips, No new taxes" all over again.
But you will put all the tax type lawyers and people out of work.😀
Then they will go on welfare and consume the taxes that were saved.:Q
Is this fair?😛
BoberFett
Lifer
You said it yourself Jellomancer.
So it's not a problem of what their actual opportunities are, it's how they think that's the problem. Well let me tell you, I'm not going to held responsible for the way someone else thinks. If I'm responsible for how some hoodrat in the ghetto thinks then you are responsible for:
the way racists think, and racism your fault
the way terrorists think, and suicide bombings lay squarely on your shoulders
etc., etc.
Or would you like to recant, and agree that the only person responsible for the way they think is the individual themselves.
So it's not a problem of what their actual opportunities are, it's how they think that's the problem. Well let me tell you, I'm not going to held responsible for the way someone else thinks. If I'm responsible for how some hoodrat in the ghetto thinks then you are responsible for:
the way racists think, and racism your fault
the way terrorists think, and suicide bombings lay squarely on your shoulders
etc., etc.
Or would you like to recant, and agree that the only person responsible for the way they think is the individual themselves.
Regardless, if Bush thinks he can convince middle income Americans that they should pay more in taxes so the top few percent pay less, I wish him luck.
He has promised tax cuts, and if people see tax hikes, there will be hell to pay. He will go the way of his father, and no Iraq war will save him.
The middle class in the US is the swing vote, so if I were Bush, I would thread very lightly.
He has promised tax cuts, and if people see tax hikes, there will be hell to pay. He will go the way of his father, and no Iraq war will save him.
The middle class in the US is the swing vote, so if I were Bush, I would thread very lightly.
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
Actually we do. The fortuitous discovery of major tranquilizers and subsequent development of better antipsychotics allowed us to close the sanitariums that were warehousing people but not providing care. The least restrictive model of care for people with debilitating mental illness is a controlled environment with monitored medication and some degree of independence in self care. Once you set up such an environment the VAST majority can have productive relationships and sustain employment.
The hospital admission mantra is homicidal, suicidal, psychotic. Most psychotics are free range NOT in long term hospital care. In the absence of appropriate surveillance for medication compliance many will relapse and all of those will eventually become a danger to themselves if not someone else.
So yes we do advocate helping those that ask first but work towards long term committment for people who cycle through the system (which is extremely expensive, dangerous to everyone, and often predicts long term bad outcome).
UltraQuiet
Banned
Really. Ya think? 😉
This again huh. NMD is an experiment in more ways than one. Rumsfeld suspended all the acquisition regs that were in place specifically for NMD. See spiral development. There are collateral technologies being developed along with this system. Percentage wise it is not a significant part of the budget. Yes, I know every little bit helps. IMO the fiscally responsible thing to do would be to start sharing the cost of this system with the countries that it will most likely deployed to. Japan, South Korea and Israel for starters.
This is the Libertarian argument and IMO is a complete non starter. You cannot maintain readiness by having all your troops at home. It is much more efficient to have troops/ships forward deployed with host countries sharing a significant amount of the cost than it is to try to respond from here. It also sends and maintains an important political message and maintains stability in many places ( and yes sometimes it causes instability). The DoD has become more cost conscious in the 19 years I've been in. This was an unintended side effect of the Clinton era when there was literally a scrum for every nickel, even in normally untouchable programs like Trident and SpecWar. Manpower wise we are drawing down again in the active duty ranks. I'm pretty sure the next defense budget will ask for a slight increase but after that it wouldn't surprise me at all to see no increase or maybe even a bit of a retraction. Shooting wars not withstanding.
I'm off to watch Trent on BET. (There's something I'd never thought I'd say)
UltraQuiet
Banned
Clinton's disdain for the military is only surpassed by his disdain for his marriage vows. The pendulum has swung to the other extreme after the 90's but we are becoming leaner. It was Rumsfelds goal when he took office and it is proceeding as planned albeit about a year behind schedule.
Edit-- You must also realize that you can't get leaner if your mission doesn't get leaner with you. That was the real problem in the 90's. OpTempo increased while the budget got smaller.
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
1) FICA/Social Security tops out because the benefit tops out. If you remove the soft cap, then the tax becomes increasingly unfair. According to the current program, I'll be paid back what someone making $87K would be paid back and pay the same taxes
Yes, I know. And all I have to say is . . . too bad. By lopping off the bottom the vast majority of 2nd tier taxpayers (50K up to the soft cap) are effectively paying the same as before if not less). But people at the top who enjoy (albeit after working hard) the most of what America offers pay the lion's share of the bill to have an intact infrastructure, ample workforce, and protection by the military.
2) It is highly unlikely that I will have to use Medicare until I retire and am older. Although I am pretty right wing in many of my points of view, I am actually for socialized medicine (this may shock some that I have sparred with on these boards) and have no issue paying taxes for medicare.
As I noted before on a dollar cost basis it is highly unlikely you will recoup your Medicare taxes. The caveat is that our system of medical education is funded through Medicare not to mention NIH investment in technology/pharmacology. Any medical service you receive at any stage in life has its foundation in public investment. Accordingly, the 41 million with no insurance and the 40 million or so more with inadequate insurance fund a system that does not serve them. But it will always serve you.
On a related note, you are a double shot against the system. Your wife might have paid medical school tuition but she was still expensive to educate. I'm the epitome of advocates for equal opportunity for females who have to fight the biological clock but there's a legitimate argument for those who say your wife is wealth redistribution at work from the bottom up.
3) I do not mind paying taxes and I do not mind the "progressive" system currently in place. However, I do mind exempting more and more people from paying any taxes at all. I think this is a dangerous move for society as I think it is important that people pay into the cost of the government they elect.
As long as you consume you pay taxes. I'm not against property taxes, gas taxes, but the big one would be consumption tax (except subsistence food and basic clothing). Personally, I would advocate an inverse poll tax . . . you have to pay if you don't vote. But the most dangerous aspect of society is not exempting people who earn less than 50K. It is allowing money to corrupt the system by people/institutions willing to give 100K to eat dinner with an elected official.
4) You are completely wrong about the valuation of different jobs (firemen, teachers, etc.). The wages are set in the open market and everyone is fairly free to chose what job they want to do (granted, some professions have high educational and other hurdles). I think that people, in general, get paid what they deserve.
Let me give you an example. Residents provide a tremendous amount of healthcare but our wages are fixed for as long as we are residents. The typical CEO is not paid based on an open market. The perception is that few people have the skills to do the job. Anybody remember Chainsaw Al from Sunbeam? Any sphincter could fire people and be called a turnaround master. When your house is on fire you expect them to show up in a hurry and risk their lives to save yours . . . but I guess 25K is all they deserve. Assuming your kids ever see a public school should she have to work two jobs in order to support her own family but still sacrifice time with her children to serve yours? The vast majority of extremely high wage earners are in a position to influence their own wages. The only time the bottom makes progress is through collective bargaining which I assume you would oppose and the rare tweak of the minimum wage.
5) I have different views than you on the value of military spending and having bases overseas. I have read your posts over time and will not make the effort to debate you on your views as they appear to be both fairly set in your mind and seem to use a value/belief system that I do not agree with. There are far more items of spending I would cut before I would cut military spending. For example, I would cut all public funding of the arts before I would cut military spending.
Actually, I'm open to discuss anything. And I start by listening. But any argument that revolves around "God Bless America", "this the best of all possible nations", "we are the good people", "you are with us or against us" obviously are not going to appeal to my brain or heart. I cannot conceive of calling a human being collateral damage. Our military cannot account for $1 trillion worth of infrastructure and now commands a $400B budget. We can pass their budget but can't extend unemployment benefits during a jobless recovery? I would even concede to current level of spending if it was spent judiciously.
6) As much as I would enjoy seeing tax accountants out of work all over the country as a result of flat income taxes, that is not the main reason why I would prefer a "flatter" system. I think that there is too much social engineering in the current system. This should be removed and but into the budget to be debated, not hidden in the tax system.
Here we almost agree. I like flat b/c it is simple. Maybe those newly unemployed accountants could help the DOD right its ship before we dump more cash down the drink. A flat tax would make the system more transparent. And subsequent amendments to the tax code would have to be assessed one at a time and legislators would have to put their names on it and how it would affect all taxpayers.
Yes, I know. And all I have to say is . . . too bad. By lopping off the bottom the vast majority of 2nd tier taxpayers (50K up to the soft cap) are effectively paying the same as before if not less). But people at the top who enjoy (albeit after working hard) the most of what America offers pay the lion's share of the bill to have an intact infrastructure, ample workforce, and protection by the military.
2) It is highly unlikely that I will have to use Medicare until I retire and am older. Although I am pretty right wing in many of my points of view, I am actually for socialized medicine (this may shock some that I have sparred with on these boards) and have no issue paying taxes for medicare.
As I noted before on a dollar cost basis it is highly unlikely you will recoup your Medicare taxes. The caveat is that our system of medical education is funded through Medicare not to mention NIH investment in technology/pharmacology. Any medical service you receive at any stage in life has its foundation in public investment. Accordingly, the 41 million with no insurance and the 40 million or so more with inadequate insurance fund a system that does not serve them. But it will always serve you.
On a related note, you are a double shot against the system. Your wife might have paid medical school tuition but she was still expensive to educate. I'm the epitome of advocates for equal opportunity for females who have to fight the biological clock but there's a legitimate argument for those who say your wife is wealth redistribution at work from the bottom up.
3) I do not mind paying taxes and I do not mind the "progressive" system currently in place. However, I do mind exempting more and more people from paying any taxes at all. I think this is a dangerous move for society as I think it is important that people pay into the cost of the government they elect.
As long as you consume you pay taxes. I'm not against property taxes, gas taxes, but the big one would be consumption tax (except subsistence food and basic clothing). Personally, I would advocate an inverse poll tax . . . you have to pay if you don't vote. But the most dangerous aspect of society is not exempting people who earn less than 50K. It is allowing money to corrupt the system by people/institutions willing to give 100K to eat dinner with an elected official.
4) You are completely wrong about the valuation of different jobs (firemen, teachers, etc.). The wages are set in the open market and everyone is fairly free to chose what job they want to do (granted, some professions have high educational and other hurdles). I think that people, in general, get paid what they deserve.
Let me give you an example. Residents provide a tremendous amount of healthcare but our wages are fixed for as long as we are residents. The typical CEO is not paid based on an open market. The perception is that few people have the skills to do the job. Anybody remember Chainsaw Al from Sunbeam? Any sphincter could fire people and be called a turnaround master. When your house is on fire you expect them to show up in a hurry and risk their lives to save yours . . . but I guess 25K is all they deserve. Assuming your kids ever see a public school should she have to work two jobs in order to support her own family but still sacrifice time with her children to serve yours? The vast majority of extremely high wage earners are in a position to influence their own wages. The only time the bottom makes progress is through collective bargaining which I assume you would oppose and the rare tweak of the minimum wage.
5) I have different views than you on the value of military spending and having bases overseas. I have read your posts over time and will not make the effort to debate you on your views as they appear to be both fairly set in your mind and seem to use a value/belief system that I do not agree with. There are far more items of spending I would cut before I would cut military spending. For example, I would cut all public funding of the arts before I would cut military spending.
Actually, I'm open to discuss anything. And I start by listening. But any argument that revolves around "God Bless America", "this the best of all possible nations", "we are the good people", "you are with us or against us" obviously are not going to appeal to my brain or heart. I cannot conceive of calling a human being collateral damage. Our military cannot account for $1 trillion worth of infrastructure and now commands a $400B budget. We can pass their budget but can't extend unemployment benefits during a jobless recovery? I would even concede to current level of spending if it was spent judiciously.
6) As much as I would enjoy seeing tax accountants out of work all over the country as a result of flat income taxes, that is not the main reason why I would prefer a "flatter" system. I think that there is too much social engineering in the current system. This should be removed and but into the budget to be debated, not hidden in the tax system.
Here we almost agree. I like flat b/c it is simple. Maybe those newly unemployed accountants could help the DOD right its ship before we dump more cash down the drink. A flat tax would make the system more transparent. And subsequent amendments to the tax code would have to be assessed one at a time and legislators would have to put their names on it and how it would affect all taxpayers.
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
Oh Dave you crazy guy. It was Dick Cheney (DOD during GHWBush) who began the downsizing of the US military. And how quickly people forget that Bush/Cheney 2000 ran on a platform of re-evaluating defense including its funding. Cheney, dare I say a real fiscal conservative, tried to kill the V-22 Osprey b/c it was a boon doggle when he was at DOD. As VP he was planning to kill the Osprey but no more. Anyone that believes the Osprey progressed from expensive death trap to expensive yet vital troop carrier in 2001 should put down the Elmer's.
I would definitely increase funding for military personnel. I would dump TriCare which . . . I say this in all honesty . . . if most 'conservatives' had to live with what our government calls healthcare for the military they might ask Hilary for ideas.
Why not improve relations with vital allies Japan, South Korea, India when it comes to developing missile defense systems instead of treating them like annoyances? Yemen, home of the Cole bombing, yeah they really need Scuds. Saddam is a ruthless tyrant bent on dominating the Gulf . . . doesn't that mean Iran is smart to be working on nukes or other weapons? We can't lay off the costs of NMD to allies b/c the single enthusiastic supporter is Israel. Israel has plenty of reasons to feel insecure but my advice to them is to learn to love their neighbor or kill them all but don't expect the US to support Manifest Destiny in the West Bank.
I would definitely increase funding for military personnel. I would dump TriCare which . . . I say this in all honesty . . . if most 'conservatives' had to live with what our government calls healthcare for the military they might ask Hilary for ideas.
Why not improve relations with vital allies Japan, South Korea, India when it comes to developing missile defense systems instead of treating them like annoyances? Yemen, home of the Cole bombing, yeah they really need Scuds. Saddam is a ruthless tyrant bent on dominating the Gulf . . . doesn't that mean Iran is smart to be working on nukes or other weapons? We can't lay off the costs of NMD to allies b/c the single enthusiastic supporter is Israel. Israel has plenty of reasons to feel insecure but my advice to them is to learn to love their neighbor or kill them all but don't expect the US to support Manifest Destiny in the West Bank.
UltraQuiet
Banned
Yes it was Bush Sr. who started the drawdown looking for that elusive "peace dividend" . Him, the Congress's and Clinton all get full marks for making me miserable for an entire decade. This admin came in looking to streamline the military and they are proceeding. I'm currently working in Manpower and Human Systems Integration for the Navy and I can say with all certainty that we are and will continue to become leaner and more efficient. By direction.
TriCare is not quite the horror story it was ten years ago. It is also my understanding that the original or one of the early editions of it was "HillaryCare"
I think we agree on the issue of our allies and NMD although I think Japan and S. Korea would like it also. We completely missed the boat wrt to Iran. I think there will be democracy there (real democracy) within 2 generations. We should always work to stop the proliferation of WMD no matter what but we have labeled Iran as part of the axis and therefore......
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
Yes it was Bush Sr. who started the drawdown looking for that elusive "peace dividend" . Him, the Congress's and Clinton all get full marks for making me miserable for an entire decade. This admin came in looking to streamline the military and they are proceeding. I'm currently working in Manpower and Human Systems Integration for the Navy and I can say with all certainty that we are and will continue to become leaner and more efficient. By direction.
TriCare is not quite the horror story it was ten years ago. It is also my understanding that the original or one of the early editions of it was "HillaryCare"
I think we agree on the issue of our allies and NMD although I think Japan and S. Korea would like it also. We completely missed the boat wrt to Iran. I think there will be democracy there (real democracy) within 2 generations. We should always work to stop the proliferation of WMD no matter what but we have labeled Iran as part of the axis and therefore......
Hell yeah, that's my boy . . . I mean that in a general "you're a cool guy" not a derogatory "you're beneath me" kind of way. Not to be too bold but honestly Dave, the Navy utilizes more intelligent personnel than the other branches. The Air Force is in the ballpark but they are winning too many football games to be very sharp.
I'm too young to know TriCare of old. I just know the current one. It sux. I really feel for you if it used to be worse.
S.Korea would require a super sharp NMD to be effective against their only real threat so they aren't really interested. Furthermore, the ultimate reunification of the penisula is going to be lengthy and expensive. South Korea doesn't have the cheddar to waste.
Japan would probably prefer investment in the peninsula to NMD. I've been to the peninsula. I'm close to my Korean brothers and sisters. The war memorials and the lingering Japanese language in Korean society is a constant reminder of the atrocities committed by Japanese imperialism. Call it "yellow guilt" but Japan still has an outstanding balance on the peninsula.
Iran as you so astutely note will embrace democracy in a more profound form over time. Khatami will either become the Yeltsin of Iran or go down with the theocrats; I see Boris. All I know is that if Israel was smart they would buddy up to Iran. The most likely cause of a bad outcome in Iran is meddling by social planners from afar.
India is under constant threat from a belligerent neighbor that refuses to denounce first strike with nuclear weapons. Uh so which one is our friend? The world's most populous democracy and they are 2nd class to Pakistan. Then again I guess we believe in first strike, too.
Hey where's Dick? Rice in 2004! I think she needs a man . . . unless of course . . . I mean come on she was in NorCal for a long time.
TriCare is not quite the horror story it was ten years ago. It is also my understanding that the original or one of the early editions of it was "HillaryCare"
I think we agree on the issue of our allies and NMD although I think Japan and S. Korea would like it also. We completely missed the boat wrt to Iran. I think there will be democracy there (real democracy) within 2 generations. We should always work to stop the proliferation of WMD no matter what but we have labeled Iran as part of the axis and therefore......
Hell yeah, that's my boy . . . I mean that in a general "you're a cool guy" not a derogatory "you're beneath me" kind of way. Not to be too bold but honestly Dave, the Navy utilizes more intelligent personnel than the other branches. The Air Force is in the ballpark but they are winning too many football games to be very sharp.
I'm too young to know TriCare of old. I just know the current one. It sux. I really feel for you if it used to be worse.
S.Korea would require a super sharp NMD to be effective against their only real threat so they aren't really interested. Furthermore, the ultimate reunification of the penisula is going to be lengthy and expensive. South Korea doesn't have the cheddar to waste.
Japan would probably prefer investment in the peninsula to NMD. I've been to the peninsula. I'm close to my Korean brothers and sisters. The war memorials and the lingering Japanese language in Korean society is a constant reminder of the atrocities committed by Japanese imperialism. Call it "yellow guilt" but Japan still has an outstanding balance on the peninsula.
Iran as you so astutely note will embrace democracy in a more profound form over time. Khatami will either become the Yeltsin of Iran or go down with the theocrats; I see Boris. All I know is that if Israel was smart they would buddy up to Iran. The most likely cause of a bad outcome in Iran is meddling by social planners from afar.
India is under constant threat from a belligerent neighbor that refuses to denounce first strike with nuclear weapons. Uh so which one is our friend? The world's most populous democracy and they are 2nd class to Pakistan. Then again I guess we believe in first strike, too.
Hey where's Dick? Rice in 2004! I think she needs a man . . . unless of course . . . I mean come on she was in NorCal for a long time.
UltraQuiet
Banned
BBD
For the sake of brevity I won't quote your last post.
1. Taiwan is another country that would probably be interested in NMD. Of course our foreign policy wrt to that country is profoundly confusing.
2. I don't see any undercurrent of discontent in N. Korea. The country seems to be pretty locked down. What's it gonna take?
3. Not thirty seconds ago I walked into my living room and the wife says, " Bush is gonna dump Cheney for a woman." I said, "Rice?" which turned into a short discussion on whethter this country could elect a woman VP let alone a black woman VP. The discussion ensues...
4. Is that boy comment some kind of raci... Oh never mind. 😉
For the sake of brevity I won't quote your last post.
1. Taiwan is another country that would probably be interested in NMD. Of course our foreign policy wrt to that country is profoundly confusing.
2. I don't see any undercurrent of discontent in N. Korea. The country seems to be pretty locked down. What's it gonna take?
3. Not thirty seconds ago I walked into my living room and the wife says, " Bush is gonna dump Cheney for a woman." I said, "Rice?" which turned into a short discussion on whethter this country could elect a woman VP let alone a black woman VP. The discussion ensues...
4. Is that boy comment some kind of raci... Oh never mind. 😉
BaliBabyDoc
U.S. and Japan share labour in approach to N.Korea
Mon Dec 16, 7:20 PM ET
In response to the danger they see from North Korea's nuclear and missile programmes, the Japanese side embraced the offer of U.S. assistance with a missile defence system.
It looks like they want the missile defence system also.
U.S. and Japan share labour in approach to N.Korea
Mon Dec 16, 7:20 PM ET
In response to the danger they see from North Korea's nuclear and missile programmes, the Japanese side embraced the offer of U.S. assistance with a missile defence system.
It looks like they want the missile defence system also.
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