New System For 18yr old Son

[litetouch]

Hello All Anand Tech Members,
I need to come up with a good combination of parts to build my #2 son a new computer as a belated birthday gift. He earned his Eagle Scout rank in Boy Scouts a month ago & turned 18 a week ago.
I was going to buy him a new vidieo card, but then why buy an AGP card for $200 that is already an antique - PCI express v2 is the standard today from what I hear.
He has really made an effort to overcome a learing disabilty, our entire family is very proud of him. He has also had to do without the attention of his mom and dad who have been getting ready for a trial date about our home that was built on fill & is sliding down a hill... so I could REALLY use some good advice about what parts to buy for his new rig! I used to have the time to stay on top of what was the "sweet spot" as far as price and performance goes, but for the last year or so we have been getting blind-sided almost every day. Thank goodness that we had saved some $$$ - we have been using it to pay the lawyers!

Things sure have changed since you could buy a 100hz Celeron for $50 and overclock it to 450hz..

So here we go...

Budget : $1500 -$1800 Budget is a flakey item - if I could spend $100 bucks and get a great gaming system, I would. If it took $2000 to get the job done, I probably would. It all depends on what it takes to get a system that will still be worthwhile in two years. Looking for the "sweet-spot" of price & performance.

Primary Use : Gaming

Secondary Use : Homework (very secondary, I am sure!)

O/S : will buy new Windows XP for this system

Parts on Hand :
Brand new Antec Neopower 500w power supply - but i think this will be exchanged, as i am getting a 60hz buzz in games since installing in his existing system.

I can reuse the existing cd player/burner & cd drive & floppy
I imagine that i can use the USB/flash drive sockets out of his HP Pavilion 450n.
I would like to use his existing Hard drive (with XP home) to access the stuff he has on it now, but not to boot from it.
Of course he already has keyboard & mouse.
He does not need a printer.

Monitor : Samsung 40" LCD HDTV with HDMI input presently being used as monitor,new this Christmas - we wil retain this unit - he says it is great for gaming- personally, I think it is over-kill. Speakers are built-in to the monitor.

We need to select:
Case - I presume ATX configuration - looking for quit & good air flow. Cool lights would make HIM happy, but it does not matter to me at all. But then again, it is a gift !
Mother Board - Intlel X33 chipset?
Memory - DDR3? I imagine 2 gig is the minumum these days.
CPU - he says "quad core"... or was it "dual quad core"? He scares me sometimes! - I presume Intel, I don't have a clue, particularly about the right stepping to look for - or how to look! I understand it can make a big differance!
Overclocking - I have before, without a hitch, but I do not know if it is really worth it at the speeds that are available as default.
Vidieo card - perhaps a Nvidia 8800GT 512?
Sound card: what for? from my experience he does not need it, and could always upgrade later.
Cooling - as needed

Thanks a bunch for the ideas, next I will need to find someplace that has it all in stock & can be depended upon to ship FAST! I doubt the Fry's will be able to fill the shopping list!

Michael C. Gary

 

[AmberClad]

DDR3 and PCIe 2 hasn't yet become mainstream (too expensive at this point). Some general guidelines:

Motherboard - P35 chipset. The X38/X48 is a bit more expensive and not really necessary. I wouldn't recommend the G33 unless you plan on using the onboard video, or if you're using a microATX board which usually come with "G" chipsets by default.

Memory - DDR2. 2 GB is fine for XP. 4GB or more for Vista.

CPU - I'm going to assume he didn't mean dual quad core (i.e. the uber-expensive Skulltrail platform) . It's kind of a toss-up at the moment whether to go for the old Q6600 quad core, or the new Wolfdale E8400 dual core. For most purposes, the dually will do just fine. Intel would probably be the general recommendation at the moment.

Video Card - the 8800GT is a great choice

Sound Card - not strictly necessary

I realize that's not very specific as far as exactly which parts to get, but hopefully that'll help from a general standpoint.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Welcome to ATOT, and congrats on your Sons successes!

ATX form factor is correct for the case, lighting is optional and will need to be added to the case and probably the only prerequisite is getting a case with a "windowed" side panel to show of the lights.

Mobo - the best performance/price right now is the Intel P35 chipset

Memory - DDR2 is the sweetspot for memory right now, it's insanely cheap and only gives up 2-3% performance to DDR3, DDR3 is insanely expensive and not at all worth the extra price.

The CPU's to consider:

E8400 45nm dual core $220, this will be the fastest option for most games. It is Intels newest architecture and will run the highest ghz speeds and will be the best for games that can't take full advantage of 4 cores (most games)

Q6600 65nm quad core $270, the quad will excel in video encoding, raw number crunching, and the handfull of games that can take advantage of the extra cores. (Crysis, MS flight sim X, ect...)

Q9450 45nm quad core $300-350 (due out next month)

Overclocking is benificial for gaming and all of the CPU's listed above overclock very well with minimum effort and risk.

8800GT 512mb is the sweet spot, no need to look at anything else

 

[imported_wired247]

With modern day motherboards, the floppy drive is all but obsolete. You can put most upgrades/drivers/bios flashes on a USB flash drive and your mobo will detect it.

Get a new hard drive, storage is much faster and much cheaper (per GB) than yesteryear. You can plug in the old hard drive, transfer the files you need, and then format it for extra storage or just toss it. I would recommend something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822148136 (or for cheaper, get the 250GB version)

What is the resolution of the LCD TV? if it is 720p native resolution, it will not be the best for reading text (doing Homework... ahem)

Case -- he will probably dig the Antec 900, but I hear this case can be a pain with those legacy IDE cables, if you switch all hard drives and optical drives to SATA you should be fine.

DDR2-800 is the most useful and reasonably priced standard of memory today (and it's VERY fast) Get a good set of 2x2GB DDR2-800 which runs at 1.8-2.0V and has timings between 4-4-4-12 and 5-5-5-15 (very little difference)

DDR3 won't do anything but break the bank.

He does NOT need quad core for gaming/homework. Get him the latest and greatest dual core, which will be faster for almost all games. It is called the wolfdale intel e8400.


motherboard -- get a nice motherboard with the intel p35 chipset which is totally fine for any single-video-card solution today. Abit motherboards are pretty easy to use for first timers.

If you can spend a little more, the X38 chipset is great too and gives a little better future upgradability for video cards, and has better power delivery to the video card slots (pci express 2.0)


overclocking -- do not attempt unless you know what you are doing, and definitely not recommended for first timers. in general the motherboard's "auto" settings should be fine. there is not *that* much immediate danger that you will fry components unless you jack up all the voltages, the more likely danger is that you will make the system unstable (random crashes) and not know what to do to fix it. unless you have someone experienced to help you out step by step, you might want to just keep everything running at stock speeds which will be quite fast.


Video card -- 8800GT 512mb is totally fine for gaming today, and will last quite a while unless the resolution is above 1900x1200. But it does not sound like you will have very high resolution. Mine works fine for 1680x1050 resolution even with the latest games. If you want to really give his computer a kick in the performance department, buy him a 3870x2 which is essentially 2 video cards in one, not rediculously expensive, and as fast or faster than some quite expensive multi-card setups.

Sound card -- not required if the motherboard has onboard sound, and not recommended unless the sound system is good enough to actually hear the difference. For an upgrade later on, get any of the creative X-Fi cards (cheapest available) but forget Audigy, soundblaster Live! , etc as they are rarely better than onboard sound nowadays.

Cooling -- if you get the e8400, you will definitely be fine with the stock heatsink/fan combo, which is warranted by Intel. Use that. (make sure the CPU you are buying says "retail" NOT "OEM" ... OEM comes without heatsink

buying a fancy CPU cooler definitely gives you a "wow" factor when you look inside the case, and getting CPU coolers is very popular on this website in particular, but unless you are going for high overclocks with the e8400, there is no reason to get anything other than the retail heatsink/fan. (again, remember intel warrants this !!)


power supply -- antec and corsair PSU's are very good. I bought mine (thermaltake) because it had MODULAR (detachable) power cables, which makes setting up the computer for the first time VERY neat and tidy, I would highly recommend for first time builders to consider getting a modular PSU.

With your setup, 550W will be more than enough, provided you use a quality unit. For higher end video cards, a little more power is always recommended, so if you get the 3870x2, you might consider 600W for safety margin


I also recommend getting VISTA 64-bit... it is essentially THE immediate future of operating systems. VISTA/windows xp 32-bit limits you to ~3GB of RAM, and vista truly shines with 4GB from my experience. (not to mention, there are several deals where you can get 4GB of ram for about 70-80$ after rebate)

 

[MarcVenice]

I'd go with a e8400, since gaming is the main purpose, and the e8400 beats the q6600 in games 99% of the time. If you want to save money, buy a e4500 or e2180, and overclock them, the e8400 will last a bit longer when overclocking to 3-3.6ghz though. Mobo I'd buy this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128059 it's p35, it's relatively cheap, has all you need, and overclocks well.

Get 2x2gb, it's cheap, and will come in handy later on, and won't break the bank either: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231122

Videocard, awesome deal right now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814127329 Spending more doesn't really get you much more performance.

Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...129021&Tpk=antec%2b900 Has everything you want, pretty quiet, looks flashy, cools really well. Check around to see if you can get it cheaper.

For cooling, get this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835154001 Will be quiet, and allows for high overclocks.

Oh, forgot the PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...E16817139004&Tpk=550vx that will do the trick, with some headroom left in it too. This one is cheaper: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817371007 and will still easily power that rig. Something modular is nice too, looks tidy and it's better for airflow, but then you'd be looking at something like a corsair 520hx, often can be had for a little under 100$.

That's it I guess. Yes, you could spend more, but it won't net you any real difference in terms of performance, unless you want to pay a real price premium. Good luck with the build.

 

[0roo0roo]

yea the good thing now is you can build a gaming system for far less than 2000k.
now the biggest cost is the monitor these days if you want a nice big one.
just get the intel core processor you can afford, 2-4 cores..your choice, a nvidia 8800gt and a decent m/b and just use onboard sound. rams cheap, get atleast 2gb.
get a decent case. antec p180-82 type. nice thick layered walls, nice slow big fan on silicon gommets, drives that are isolated from vibrating case, and vents that are all baffled so no noise gets direct escape nothings quite as annoying as a loud pc.

and yea 720p lcd is good for only gaming/video. it is too low resolution for computing.

 

[imported_wired247]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yea the good thing now is you can build a gaming system for far less than 2000k.

Ah yes... the good old days where computers cost $2 million

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: wired247

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yea the good thing now is you can build a gaming system for far less than 2000k.

Ah yes... the good old days where computers cost $2 million

http://timberlina.ca/pcclub/member/images/eniac.jpg

 

[imported_wired247]

Originally posted by: Roguestar

Originally posted by: wired247

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yea the good thing now is you can build a gaming system for far less than 2000k.

Ah yes... the good old days where computers cost $2 million

http://timberlina.ca/pcclub/member/images/eniac.jpg

"not recommended for lan parties"

 

[heyheybooboo]

Consider a wireless keyboard and mouse. Optimal range from that 40-inch LCD is probably 6-7 feet. I have no problems with 'text' on my 720p. Adjust your desktop appearance settings in your display properties ...

Now I'm headed in a different direction

MSI K9A2 Platinum 790FX Mobo $180
(you can find one for $160 if you look around)

2 X SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR4 Video Card $370

Athlon 64 X2 5400+ 2.8GHz Socket AM2 65W $95

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 $90

Rosewill ATX v2.2 / EPS12V 950W Power Supp $100 AR


There are alot of great hard drive options out there. The going rate is around $.20/gb. So with a 500gb hard drive, your case selection, fans, et. al., you are in for around $1,100. Now is when you get to have some fun (and your son's input would help ...)

I don't know what type of game console he is using (PS3-BluRay // XBox-HDDVD) so the first option will cover the 'other' ....

LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner - Retail $230 (price through 2-21)

This could take you down a 'home theatre' path. You could save a couple hundred bucks on the drive listed above if all he wants is a conventional DVD player/burner.

For further expansion (birthdays & holidays ) you could pop by your local big box electronic store and grab a SS receiver (and use the 'optical out' or hdmi from the mobo). Speakers range from reasonable to 'get the fck out' - lol. HDTV tuners for the PC ( here is a chart) can be purchased for $80 and up ....


If the home theatre doesn't 'work' for your son, he may be interested in becoming the first young man in your home state to run CrossFireX.

The MSI 790fx mobo has 4 PCIe2 x16 slots. For an additional $370 you could add 2 more Radeon HD 3870s to his rig for a total of 4 video cards. This is referred to as the CrossFireX platform.

WARNING If you travel down this path you will need a power supply upgrade like this that includes 4 '2x3' PCIe power connectors. The CrossFireX 'option' bumps you from $1,100 to $1,670 .... Sorry about that - lol.

The vicious rumahs on the internets put the 'official' CrossFireX driver release on March 4. There are beta CrossFireX drivers floating around for Vista.

And since I forgot the OS you can add another $110 for Vista ...

Grand Total: $1,780

Good luck and congratulations. I hope your lawyers earn their money!

 

[DSF]

The advice you're getting here is all pretty good, and I don't have a whole lot to add.

As a teacher, I just want to say it's great to hear about your son's success. While I value the achievement of all of my students, it makes me even more proud to see students put in the hard work to overcome their learning disabilities and be the best they can be. Buy him a nice frosty root beer for me.

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Why in god's name are you buying an AMD processor on such a high budget? Then trusting two HD 3870s to a Rosewill?

Marc Venice has the right build for that. Two things I'd switch: Antec 900 for $30 less: microcenter

and: Zerotherm Nirvana (same price AR) and I think it cools better. newegg Tuniq tower isn't the top standard anymore...

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: BlueAcolyte
Why in god's name are you buying an AMD processor on such a high budget? Then trusting two HD 3870s to a Rosewill?

Marc Venice has the right build for that. Two things I'd switch: Antec 900 for $30 less: microcenter

and: Zerotherm Nirvana (same price AR) and I think it cools better. newegg Tuniq tower isn't the top standard anymore...

lol @ the intel (Marc?) fanboy

No doubt the e8400 is a better cpu. At nearly 3 times the cost of the X2 5400+ is it worth it for a gaming rig? Doubtful ...

A socket 775 with an end-of-life in less than a year with a single PCIe1.1 x16 slot versus a 790fx? mmmmm....I'm not seeing it.

Especially when the 790fx has firewire, eSATA, 2 RAID controllers, not to mention 4 PCIe2 x16 slots - 2 of which will each run at 8gb's a second, double the rate of PCIe1.1

This young man deserves a unique system. I presented the future possibility of CrossFireX which, believe it or not, will be reality in less than 2 weeks.

I offered my opinion and perspective on a number of options-including home theatre. Sorry you disagree.

And as difficult as it is for you to understand, new AMD steppings in the future just might improve Phenom/Kuma and provide a reasonable upgrade path for the future. They, of course, will never be as great as the mighty Intel but maybe, just maybe, #2 might show you a thing or 2 ...

Thank you for your input.

 

[BlueAcolyte]

I'm not an intel fanboy, I just want to give the best performance for the money. Socket AM2+ is pretty limited; I don't believe AMD with their backwards compatibility. Plus, the performance is worth it for a gaming rig. PCIE 2.0 is a marketing joke, and CrossfireX is just a bit out of budget right now. If AMD could pull something nice out, I'd bite. I'm not a fanboy: CrossfireX is pretty amazing. Just look at the HD3870X2 to see what AMD/ATi. But to use something like that you need an AMD processor, which is, oddly enough, the weakest link among their chipsets and graphics card. Best perf for price is with Intel right now.

Here's a P35 motherboard with all of the features listed above (except for CrossfireX) Asus P5k

IF you really wanted to go AMD, I would suggest the X2 5000 Black Edition, and wait for the new Phenom steppings. But...

We can disagree respectfully on this issue, heyhey.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: BlueAcolyte
I'm not an intel fanboy, I just want to give the best performance for the money. Socket AM2+ is pretty limited; I don't believe AMD with their backwards compatibility. Plus, the performance is worth it for a gaming rig. PCIE 2.0 is a marketing joke, and CrossfireX is just a bit out of budget right now. If AMD could pull something nice out, I'd bite. I'm not a fanboy: CrossfireX is pretty amazing. Just look at the HD3870X2 to see what AMD/ATi. But to use something like that you need an AMD processor, which is, oddly enough, the weakest link among their chipsets and graphics card. Best perf for price is with Intel right now.

Here's a P35 motherboard with all of the features listed above (except for CrossfireX) Asus P5k

IF you really wanted to go AMD, I would suggest the X2 5000 Black Edition, and wait for the new Phenom steppings. But...

We can disagree respectfully on this issue, heyhey.

No worries, mate - sorry if I came over as an arse

The x2 5400+ 2.8GHz does not have the IMC 'bottleneck' which reduces memory performance on AM2s - like the x2 5000 BE.

And please rest easy knowing I would never suggest something I have not built and thoroughly tested :thumbsup:

 

[MarcVenice]

With the budget he mentioned, I simply don't suggest AMD. I've got a x2 3800+ myself, but saying I'm an intel fanboy ? I never tell people to get something, I advice them, they follow it, or they don't. I won't lose any sleep over it, but in my opinion, a e8400 was justified in his build. Hell, in a 1000$ build I think it's justifyable to get a e8400.

Oh, and worst of all, even with lower budgets I would probably still recommend Intel. AMD used to be good for lower-end, but with the abit ip35-e often going for 70$, and the e2180 for 80$ ish, it's hard to recommend AMD. AMD is almost so low-end, by then, it's almost better to tell people to get a Dell. And yes, I know we need AMD, to keep Intel sharp, but right now, being a consumer, wanting most bang for buck, it's Intel all the way.

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
With the budget he mentioned, I simply don't suggest AMD. I've got a x2 3800+ myself, but saying I'm an intel fanboy ? I never tell people to get something, I advice them, they follow it, or they don't. I won't lose any sleep over it, but in my opinion, a e8400 was justified in his build. Hell, in a 1000$ build I think it's justifyable to get a e8400.

Oh, and worst of all, even with lower budgets I would probably still recommend Intel. AMD used to be good for lower-end, but with the abit ip35-e often going for 70$, and the e2180 for 80$ ish, it's hard to recommend AMD. AMD is almost so low-end, by then, it's almost better to tell people to get a Dell. And yes, I know we need AMD, to keep Intel sharp, but right now, being a consumer, wanting most bang for buck, it's Intel all the way.

What he said.

And it's not a problem

 

[litetouch]

Thanks for your suggestions for my sons new system!

The Samsung LCD HDTV specifications list PC Resolution as 1360 x 768@60hz.. If the signal from the system does not equal the standard mode, the resolution is degraded to 720 x 400 OR 640 x 480. By setting 60hz in display prooperties, the 1360 x 768 is the native and retained resolution.

Your suggestions make sense to me, particularly concerning the Wolfdale and Vista- although you lost me with the 3870X2 reference!

Time to round #2 son up and get down to shopping!
Michael C. Gary

 

[imported_wired247]

What I was saying was... the 3870x2 is 2 graphics cards in one.

So it should be given slightly more power as a safety margin.


But, at those resolutions, I would just stick with the 8800GT.

550W should be plenty for your son's system

 

[chinaman1472]

No need for a 3870X2. At those resolutions, a 8800GTS 512 would be plenty. At $260 AR, it's quite a deal considering not too long ago, that's where the 8800GT was sitting at.
E8400 on this budget is a given - $225 at the local Fry's here.
4GB of memory - $100 tops.
A simple P35 chipset motherboard - $90-140.
Corsair 520HX - $120ish I think, modular cables are nice.
All this will cost you around $900.

Add a nice case that suits your needs (good air flow, nice design, etc.). Stock cooling really should enough but it doesn't hurt to get a better CPU cooler. This should all fit in under $1300 even if you don't shop around for the lowest prices. Save the cash for a nice dinner or something .

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Glad to help.