New system advice

[bigboym]

Hello,

I am building a new system for 3D / Computer Graphics purpose. I will be doing a lot of 3D modelling, texturing, rendering, animating, compositing etc. I am buying it in the UK and I'm sure about the prices being the best from the company I'm buying it, I am more concerned rather about performance. I already own an SSD and the other parts, so the ones mentioned below are my only interest.
Do you guys think that this would be a good setup? Thanks!

CPU: Intel Core i7 3770K
Mobo: Asus P8Z77-V LX
RAM: Corsair Memory Vengeance Black 12GB DDR3 1600MHz CAS 9 XMP
Videocard: MSI GTX660 Ti PE OC
PSU: Corsair Enthusiast Series TX650M

 

[DSF]

Are you buying the parts and assembling it yourself, or buying it custom built? Could you link us to the website?

It's still helpful to know about pricing because the relative prices between components are just as important in getting value in a computer as the prices between competing companies.

 

[bigboym]

Are you buying the parts and assembling it yourself, or buying it custom built? Could you link us to the website?

It's still helpful to know about pricing because the relative prices between components are just as important in getting value in a computer as the prices between competing companies.

Hey, thanks for the reply. I am assembling the parts myself. I am buying the components from http://scan.co.uk

 

[Ken g6]

12GB (3 modules?) is for the last-gen socket (1156). You might want 16GB.

I really don't know if a consumer-grade GPU or a "professional" GPU (Quadro or FirePro) would be better for you - or even if the onboard GPU would work just as well. If you post the software you'll be using, someone on here should know, though.

 

[mfenn]

12GB (3 modules?) is for the last-gen socket (1156). You might want 16GB.

Even older gen that that. 1366 to be precise.

OP, what is your budget?

 

[bigboym]

My budget is 750 GBP.

 

[lehtv]

Can you answer all the questions in the sticky? Namely, what are the other parts you already own? What's your monitor? Do you need a copy of Windows? Do you want to overclock?

It seems there's no gaming involved... Do your applications benefit from CUDA and are you concerned with single point or double point processing?

 

[mfenn]

My budget is 750 GBP.

Hmm, I was going to recommend a Xeon, but lehtv brings up a good point about overclocking. I.e. do you plan to do it?

 

[bigboym]

Hey there,

I am considering building a new PC at around July - August - September.
The PC will be for 3D Computer Graphics work purposes (3D Studio Max, Unreal Engine work, ZBrush, Photoshop etc.) and a bit of gaming as well.
My budget is around 2,300 $.
I need a CPU, motherboard, RAM, SSD(s), HDD(s), Graphics card and 2 monitors.
What I will definitely need are 2 monitors with absolute amazing image quality. Currently I own the Dell U2311H IPS monitor which has stunning image quality. I would need at least the same for my next build.

I guess it would be smart to wait for Haswell, but as I understood it will already be out by that time. Also, I don't want that 2,300$ to include a workstation graphics card (e.g. Quadro or Titan etc.). I'd like to spend that money on CPU, RAM, SSD etc. + an OK video card and later on I plan to invest in a Titan or something similar specifically for 3D work... not for games.

I plan on sticking with Intel and nVIDIA as their products have never let me down (performance and stability wise).

I'd appreciate if people who are in the loop and understand the hardware/software stuff to be so kind as to share some opinions and suggestions on the matter.
Thanks in advance and sorry for the lengthy post .

 

[mfenn]

Are you still in the UK? If so, what is your budget in pounds?

Also, July-September is an awful long ways away in terms of planning out specific parts.

 

[crashtech]

Just some ideas, though by the time this gets built, we may see IB-E or maybe even something better, but this is a good start on a graphics workstation with NO video card as requested. No optical drive or OS either...

 

[bigboym]

mfenn: yes, I'm still in the UK and I will be buying it from here: www.scan.co.uk .
Although.. depends on how things work out, I might and up in the U.S. .. I don't know this for certain yet. Is there a significant price difference between the two countries?
Hehe, yeah it is a long way away, although currently I would be interested in pretty much any suggestions regarding a new PC for the purposes I've mentioned. For example, I don't know whether if it's worth investing in those Enthusiast Intel CPUs. They are a hell of a lot more expensive than one of the top end... "regular" versions, but I'm not too sure if the performance gain is significant enough. Maybe spend that extra 100-200$ on a more powerful GPU..? don't know. That's why I'm asking here .

crashtech: thanks for that build! Will save it and consider your suggestions. Although, I own a Corsair TX650 M right now which I plan to use for my next build, so there is no need for a PSU either I guess...

Thanks again guys!

 

[crashtech]

Ah, well that may leave even more room for improvement! I specified an LGA2011 X79 board because the rumor is that IB-E will be released in LGA2011 and should work with the X79 chipset. LGA 2011 is currently the go-to form factor for high-end graphics workstations, depending on your needs you could get the WS version of that Asus board and some ECC memory, depending on how critical your work is, but the i7 will not support ECC, you'll need to go to a much more expensive Xeon like the E5-1660 for that.

 

[mfenn]

mfenn: yes, I'm still in the UK and I will be buying it from here: www.scan.co.uk .
Although.. depends on how things work out, I might and up in the U.S. .. I don't know this for certain yet. Is there a significant price difference between the two countries?
Hehe, yeah it is a long way away, although currently I would be interested in pretty much any suggestions regarding a new PC for the purposes I've mentioned. For example, I don't know whether if it's worth investing in those Enthusiast Intel CPUs. They are a hell of a lot more expensive than one of the top end... "regular" versions, but I'm not too sure if the performance gain is significant enough. Maybe spend that extra 100-200$ on a more powerful GPU..? don't know. That's why I'm asking here .

Yes, your money will go a lot further in the US than it will in the UK (or Europe in general).

As for the system itself, whether or not a 6-core makes sense depends on exactly what you'll be doing with the computer. Will you be doing any long-term final renders on the machine? If so, the 6-core will greatly speed those processes up. If not, you are fine with an 1155 quad.

 

[crashtech]

I would think LGA 2011 would make sense for this kind of machine, given its EOL is farther off than LGA 1155, but it would be interesting to receive some feedback on that. If 4 cores is what the OP needs, the i7 3820 will serve; there is a ~$270 price premium for the extra 2 cores and unlocked multiplier.

Of course, by the time this rig is built we may be talking about 4930K vs 4820K.

 

[mfenn]

I would think LGA 2011 would make sense for this kind of machine, given its EOL is farther off than LGA 1155, but it would be interesting to receive some feedback on that. If 4 cores is what the OP needs, the i7 3820 will serve; there is a ~$270 price premium for the extra 2 cores and unlocked multiplier.

Of course, by the time this rig is built we may be talking about 4930K vs 4820K.

Buying a quad-core Socket 2011 part makes no technical sense unless you need a ton of memory bandwidth but only a few cores (very rare application). The EOM date for either platform doesn't matter because they'll be obsolete before then anyway.

 

[crashtech]

I didn't think LGA2011 was quite done yet, as the IB-E parts I linked above are just going to be getting in the pipe at the time the OP is planning to execute his build. Though there is no such thing as "future proof," it seems to me that LGA2011 is as close to it as foreseeable for the intended use right now, but I can't say I know much about proposed Haswell releases for the high performance desktop market in 2013.

 

[bigboym]

mfenn: Thanks for taking the time. Depends on what you mean by "long-term final renders". I won't be really doing much pre-rendered stuff that would take hours.. 3D Studio Max/Maya stuff, rather I will be doing a lot of modeling with huge polygon counts, working with a lot of high-res textures and baking them out. Eventually, the created assets will go into game engines like the Unreal Development Kit, CRYEngine etc.
There is a point where the engine has to calculate the lighting and the texture information and bake that information down into the assets. I'd like to cut that rendering time down.

crashtech: thanks for the suggestions once again. I see you've recommended an Ivy Bridge-E extreme CPU. Do you reckon those are going to be faster than the high-end Haswells?

 

[crashtech]

Desktop Haswell is not going to offer more than 4 cores, as far as I know, hence the recommendation of IB-E and LGA2011. I think the your workload might well benefit from the extra cores. It would be beneficial for you to identify where your worst slowdowns are and contact Autodesk about them, they should be able to confirm whether a hex-core would be of benefit. They've been including more multithread support with each iteration, whether or not more than eight threads could be utilized in what you are doing is an important question going forward.

Haswell is going to be faster per clock, but the improvement is in the single-digit percentages AFAIK.

 

[mfenn]

I didn't think LGA2011 was quite done yet, as the IB-E parts I linked above are just going to be getting in the pipe at the time the OP is planning to execute his build. Though there is no such thing as "future proof," it seems to me that LGA2011 is as close to it as foreseeable for the intended use right now, but I can't say I know much about proposed Haswell releases for the high performance desktop market in 2013.

Sure, but that says nothing to my point that getting a quad-core Socket 2011 system is pointless for most workloads. "Future-proof" has nothing to do with it because they'll both long be out of production before an upgrade is warranted. If you won't benefit from a 6-core, then a quad-core Ivy Bridge is going to be almost exactly the same speed, whether it is 1155 or 2011.

 

[mfenn]

mfenn: Thanks for taking the time. Depends on what you mean by "long-term final renders". I won't be really doing much pre-rendered stuff that would take hours.. 3D Studio Max/Maya stuff, rather I will be doing a lot of modeling with huge polygon counts, working with a lot of high-res textures and baking them out. Eventually, the created assets will go into game engines like the Unreal Development Kit, CRYEngine etc.
There is a point where the engine has to calculate the lighting and the texture information and bake that information down into the assets. I'd like to cut that rendering time down.

A 6-core should help you out by 30-50% for the rendering phase. Given your workload, it's easy to calculate whether or not a 6-core is worth it.

First, figure out how long you spend rendering (just rendering) in a typical day. Then do Render Time - (Render Time / 1.40). That's how much time you save on average. For example, if you spend 5 hours of the day sitting there waiting for things to render, then you will save 5 - (5 / 1.4) = 1.43 hours per day by going to a 6-core.

Once you've figured out how much time you would save, then you figure out how much your time is worth. If you're billing clients, this is easy. If not, you'll have to estimate. Then do Hours saved per day * Hourly rate * 250 working days/year * 3 years = Value of upgrade. If the value of the upgrade is more than the cost of a 3930K and motherboard, then the upgrade is worth it. If not, the upgrade is not worth it.

 

[crashtech]

It would be nice to know whether the OPs workload could benefit by more cores or not. In this situation, his budget allowed it, so I didn't think erring on the side of high performance could be harmful.

Given the kind of work the OP wants to do, a 4 core now and 6 core later is not necessarily an illogical proposition, if it could be reasonably shown that such a change would be helpful in the future. Have you never bought a CPU that was "out of production?" I know I have used them to good effect on many occasions.

 

[mfenn]

Given the kind of work the OP wants to do, a 4 core now and 6 core later is not necessarily an illogical proposition, if it could be reasonably shown that such a change would be helpful in the future.

Can you come up with a case for upgrading to a $600 CPU after already purchasing a $300 one? I certainly can't. You would obviously just buy the $600 CPU in the first place.

Have you never bought a CPU that was "out of production?" I know I have used them to good effect on many occasions.

No I have not, because it doesn't make financial sense. Keep in mind that Intel CPUs do not drop much in price even after they're gone out of production.

A 5 year old chip like a Q9550 still commands 50% of its original purchase price, even those today's $150 chip absolutely outperforms it. If you were looking for an upgrade down the line, you'd obviously just spend the same amount of money on the latest and greatest.

 

[mikeymikec]

In my experience Scan charge way over the average for shipping these days, and their component prices don't make up for it.

 

[crashtech]

Can you come up with a case for upgrading to a $600 CPU after already purchasing a $400 one? I certainly can't. You would obviously just buy the $600 CPU in the first place.



No I have not, because it doesn't make financial sense. Keep in mind that Intel CPUs do not drop much in price even after they're gone out of production.

A 5 year old chip like a Q9550 still commands 50% of its original purchase price, even those today's $150 chip absolutely outperforms it. If you were looking for an upgrade down the line, you'd obviously just spend the same amount of money on the latest and greatest.

I respect your point of view, but it is not going to be the same as mine because my experience with older CPUs has been different. I would like to point out that the 3820 is $300, not $400, and will retain resale value; there is no need to exaggerate to make your point, since it is good enough without the inclusion of misinformation.