New supersonic passenger jet in development

bernse

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2000
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Japan and France to develop Concorde sucessor
Japan, France to Jointly Develop New Jet

By NATALIE OBIKO PEARSON, Associated Press Writer1 hour, 16 minutes ago

Japan and France are jointly developing a new supersonic passenger plane to succeed the retired Concorde, but with up to three times as many seats and the potential to fly the Tokyo-to-New York route in six hours, officials and reports said Wednesday.

Defense contractors and engineering companies from the two countries are expected to split an annual investment of about 200 million yen ($1.84 million) for research over the next three years to build the faster-than-sound plane, Japan's Trade Ministry said in a statement. The agreement was signed at the Paris Air Show Tuesday.

The Japanese companies will include Japan Aircraft Development Corp., a non-profit consortium, government's space agency Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd., Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd., Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. and Ishikawajima- Harima Heavy Industries Co. Details on French participants were not available.

The cooperation opens the possibility of reducing by half the flight time between New York and Tokyo to six hours on an aircraft with 300 seats ? three times the capacity of the Concorde, according to media reports and officials Wednesday.

Amid intensifying global competition for dominance in next-generation planes, "Japan has won itself a major role in the push toward aerospace development," the Mainichi newspaper said in an analysis. But it added that doubts remain whether Japan has the technology to make a supersonic jet commercially viable.

"Japan has taken on both an opportunity and a major risk," it said.

The trade ministry said the two sides will try to resolve the difficulties that plagued the Concorde, including jet-engine noise and high fuel consumption.

Japan has successfully tested an engine that can theoretically reach speeds of up to mach 5.5, or more than five times the speed of sound, the ministry said.

It offers this technological know-how as well as its research in engines and energy conservation, the ministry said.

The French side brings experience from the Concorde, the world's first and only supersonic commercial jet operated by Air France and British Airways, which flew at twice the speed of sound.

"This is truly significant industrial cooperation," Japanese Trade Minister Shoichi Nakagawa said in the statement. "Bringing their respective advantages together ... should lead to the ability to offer highly advanced aircraft and services in the future."

The Concorde first flew in 1969 and became a symbol of French and European industrial acumen. But the planes were retired from commercial service in October 2003, never having recouped the billions of tax dollars invested in them.

The Concorde exploded in flames after takeoff from Charles de Gaulle airport near Paris on July 25, 2000, and slammed into a hotel. The accident, which killed the 109 people on board, presaged an end to the career of the sleek but costly supersonic aircraft.

Japan has been working since 2002 to develop a 250-seater supersonic jet capable of flying at mach 1.6, but the partnership with France would help raise those ambitions, a Japan Aircraft Development Corporation official said.

Officials hope to have the new jet in operation by 2015, flying up to 2.4 times the speed of sound, the Mainichi said.

This week's agreement could also signal closer cooperation with the European airline industry in a country that has long favored working with the Americans.

"To research closely in this area with the Europeans does represent something new," said Yoshio Watanabe, an official with The Society of Japanese Aerospace Companies, which is heading the new initiative on the Japanese side.
 

cavemanmoron

Lifer
Mar 13, 2001
13,664
28
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Kool !!!





Originally posted by: bernse
Japan and France to develop Concorde sucessor
Japan, France to Jointly Develop New Jet

By NATALIE OBIKO PEARSON, Associated Press Writer1 hour, 16 minutes ago

Japan and France are jointly developing a new supersonic passenger plane to succeed the retired Concorde, but with up to three times as many seats and the potential to fly the Tokyo-to-New York route in six hours, officials and reports said Wednesday.

Defense contractors and engineering companies from the two countries are expected to split an annual investment of about 200 million yen ($1.84 million) for research over the next three years to build the faster-than-sound plane, Japan's Trade Ministry said in a statement. The agreement was signed at the Paris Air Show Tuesday.

The Japanese companies will include Japan Aircraft Development Corp., a non-profit consortium, government's space agency Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd., Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd., Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. and Ishikawajima- Harima Heavy Industries Co. Details on French participants were not available.

The cooperation opens the possibility of reducing by half the flight time between New York and Tokyo to six hours on an aircraft with 300 seats ? three times the capacity of the Concorde, according to media reports and officials Wednesday.

Amid intensifying global competition for dominance in next-generation planes, "Japan has won itself a major role in the push toward aerospace development," the Mainichi newspaper said in an analysis. But it added that doubts remain whether Japan has the technology to make a supersonic jet commercially viable.

"Japan has taken on both an opportunity and a major risk," it said.

The trade ministry said the two sides will try to resolve the difficulties that plagued the Concorde, including jet-engine noise and high fuel consumption.

Japan has successfully tested an engine that can theoretically reach speeds of up to mach 5.5, or more than five times the speed of sound, the ministry said.

It offers this technological know-how as well as its research in engines and energy conservation, the ministry said.

The French side brings experience from the Concorde, the world's first and only supersonic commercial jet operated by Air France and British Airways, which flew at twice the speed of sound.

"This is truly significant industrial cooperation," Japanese Trade Minister Shoichi Nakagawa said in the statement. "Bringing their respective advantages together ... should lead to the ability to offer highly advanced aircraft and services in the future."

The Concorde first flew in 1969 and became a symbol of French and European industrial acumen. But the planes were retired from commercial service in October 2003, never having recouped the billions of tax dollars invested in them.

The Concorde exploded in flames after takeoff from Charles de Gaulle airport near Paris on July 25, 2000, and slammed into a hotel. The accident, which killed the 109 people on board, presaged an end to the career of the sleek but costly supersonic aircraft.

Japan has been working since 2002 to develop a 250-seater supersonic jet capable of flying at mach 1.6, but the partnership with France would help raise those ambitions, a Japan Aircraft Development Corporation official said.

Officials hope to have the new jet in operation by 2015, flying up to 2.4 times the speed of sound, the Mainichi said.

This week's agreement could also signal closer cooperation with the European airline industry in a country that has long favored working with the Americans.

"To research closely in this area with the Europeans does represent something new," said Yoshio Watanabe, an official with The Society of Japanese Aerospace Companies, which is heading the new initiative on the Japanese side.

 

Freejack2

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2000
7,751
8
91
Sounds nice but a ticket will probably be 3x more than the cost for a flight on a regular jet. If they could do it for maybe 1.5x they would probably have a lot of people lining up to fly it.
 

gsaldivar

Diamond Member
Apr 30, 2001
8,691
1
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$5.5 million committment over 3 years to design a new supersonic jet?

Why does that figure seem really low to me...
 

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
1
0
Originally posted by: gsaldivar
$5.5 million committment over 3 years to design a new supersonic jet?

Why does that figure seem really low to me...

It is. Likely because Japan has already done all the work (They've been working on a toned-down version since 2002)
 

bernse

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2000
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Originally posted by: gsaldivar
$5.5 million committment over 3 years to design a new supersonic jet?

Why does that figure seem really low to me...

Very low. I don't even know how much of a flight sim you'd get developed for less than $2,000,000 year nowadays. That only seems like enough to pay for the salaries of a dozen engineers and not much else.. let alone hardware.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: gsaldivar
$5.5 million committment over 3 years to design a new supersonic jet?

Why does that figure seem really low to me...


Because they aren't seriously designing it yet. They're just "looking into the idea".
 

ironcrotch

Diamond Member
May 11, 2004
7,749
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Originally posted by: gsaldivar
$5.5 million committment over 3 years to design a new supersonic jet?

Why does that figure seem really low to me...

Maybe the French gov't will subsidize the rest.
 

Kenazo

Lifer
Sep 15, 2000
10,429
1
81
Look for a $10k ticket to fly between NY and Paris, but if you're a million $/year executive, then I guess it's worth it.
 

Legendary

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2002
7,019
1
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Nice, it has been one of my life goals to fly on the Concorde; when it got cancelled I was pretty pissed, but it looks like something is making a comeback!
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
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Silly Japanese, don't they know the french will steal the designs and airbus will have a brand new supersonic plane that bears a striking resemblence to the joint development? All the french are doing is tricking Japan into giving them their designs.
 

klah

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2002
7,070
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Originally posted by: Legendary
Nice, it has been one of my life goals to fly on the Concorde; when it got cancelled I was pretty pissed, but it looks like something is making a comeback!

It would probably be cheaper to take a Mach-2 flight in a MiG-29. Call Space Adventures.

 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
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Remember what happened the LAST time Japan signed a major agreement with a European power? :evil:
 

MasterAndCommander

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2004
3,656
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Originally posted by: So
Remember what happened the LAST time Japan signed a major agreement with a European power? :evil:


Bah France...they couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. Now if it was a joint German - Japanese venture....look out! :shocked:
 

Cattlegod

Diamond Member
May 22, 2001
8,687
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they had to have slipped the word million in place of billion. no way 5.5 million would cover that.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
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The trade ministry said the two sides will try to resolve the difficulties that plagued the Concorde, including jet-engine noise and high fuel consumption.

Well duh! Without taking care of that, this is just a pipedream. I can claim that I want to make a jet that flies New York to Tokyo in 20 minutes. It's easy until you try to engineer it. Then suddenly plans that look cool on paper are impossible in reality.

If there was a way to quash the noise and make fuel consumption reasonable there would already be a successor to the Concorde.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: MasterAndCommander
Originally posted by: So
Remember what happened the LAST time Japan signed a major agreement with a European power? :evil:


Bah France...they couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. Now if it was a joint German - Japanese venture....look out! :shocked:


French engineering is underrated, while German engineering is overrated.

The French were the ones who were able to install a successful high speed train system, while the German system has been plagued with problems. The French (with British) also were the ones who operated the last SST, the Concorde. They made the Eiffel Tower in the 1800's.

Germany is better at tooting their own horn and proclaiming themselves best at things.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
they had to have slipped the word million in place of billion. no way 5.5 million would cover that.


Like I said before, 5.5 million is just a study to explore the possibility of building such a plane. It obviously doesn't include engineering the plane.
 

bernse

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2000
3,229
0
0
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: MasterAndCommander
Originally posted by: So
Remember what happened the LAST time Japan signed a major agreement with a European power? :evil:


Bah France...they couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. Now if it was a joint German - Japanese venture....look out! :shocked:


French engineering is underrated, while German engineering is overrated.

The French were the ones who were able to install a successful high speed train system, while the German system has been plagued with problems. The French (with British) also were the ones who operated the last SST, the Concorde. They made the Eiffel Tower in the 1800's.

Germany is better at tooting their own horn and proclaiming themselves best at things.
Do you really, *really* want to go down that road and name of German engineering accomplishements?

They've earned the right to toot their own horn, and while they may be overated, they are for the most part extremely good.
 

MasterAndCommander

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2004
3,656
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Originally posted by: bernse
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: MasterAndCommander
Originally posted by: So
Remember what happened the LAST time Japan signed a major agreement with a European power? :evil:


Bah France...they couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. Now if it was a joint German - Japanese venture....look out! :shocked:


French engineering is underrated, while German engineering is overrated.

The French were the ones who were able to install a successful high speed train system, while the German system has been plagued with problems. The French (with British) also were the ones who operated the last SST, the Concorde. They made the Eiffel Tower in the 1800's.

Germany is better at tooting their own horn and proclaiming themselves best at things.
Do you really, *really* want to go down that road and name of German engineering accomplishements?

They've earned the right to toot their own horn, and while they may be overated, they are for the most part extremely good.


Sure why not...Major German Engineering accompishments:

Paris Gun
Big Bertha
Tiger Tanks
V1, V2
Me-262
Bismark
Modern Assault Rifle
88mm gun
.
.
.

Major French Engineering Accomplishments:

Le Car? :D
 

m2kewl

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2001
8,263
0
0
cool! a plane with PSP, cherry blossoms, cute japanese stewardess, and arm-pit hair under the wings! ;)

where is the US version? man it seems we can't do anything right these days...we suck :frown: