New study shows U.S. Healthcare is not "superior"

[TheVrolok]

Quit it.

He knows, he just does not like being baited for something you could look up.

Our infant mortality rates are WAY too high for a country that is supposed to be so great with all its technology and care plans.

It just shows that we are a bit skewed in that arena and things need to be dealt with, not argued over political lines.

Infant mortality is a tough thing to compare as there are quite a bit of factors that are variable among countries. What constitutes a live birth? Are abortions more acceptable? Are equal levels of high risk pregnancies carried through on? etc. etc. etc.. It's far more complicated than a simple percentage implies, but to truly understand it, you need some medical knowledge.

 

[cybrsage]

I never said Obamacare will fix the problem...

Then why do you support it if you know it is part of the problem?

 

[ElFenix]

Actually diabetes has a lot to do with medical costs. If you read and comprehend, it said:

i find it funny that you didn't at all comprehend what i wrote, and then tell me i need to read and comprehend something.

to put what i wrote in another way, the rate of diabetes has to do with not eating right, and not eating right isn't at all the fault of the medical profession.

Also, you didn't address why we have fewer doctors per 100,000 than all of the other countries.

i don't know why i need to address this.

 

[Zebo]

I can vouch for this. I got better care in Costa rica after a car accident. My cousins in Europe all go to 3 week spas to feel better and carry on the next year as part of HC package.

In US it's all about money not care simple as that. HC executives are siphon billions who contribute nothing to care. Drug company CEOs make tens of millions. Many Drs are walking corporations. Hell my brother is an independent pharmacist and make near 7 figures.

It's pretty obvious when we spend twice and nearest neighbor per capita and can't even get everyone covered.

 

[Zebo]

i find it funny that you didn't at all comprehend what i wrote, and then tell me i need to read and comprehend something.

to put what i wrote in another way, the rate of diabetes has to do with not eating right, and not eating right isn't at all the fault of the medical profession.



i don't know why i need to address this.

A lot of chronic illnesses such as diabetes would have been totally prevented with regular doctor visits to advise and never occurred in the first place. But HC costs a lot for some and unavailable for many.

So what ends up happening is they get a disease, get on SSD, get medicare, and ends up costing taxpayers a fortune for the rest of thier lives for what could have been prvented with cheap dr visits.

Pay now or pay later but you always have to pay. - a saying

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I can vouch for this. I got better care in Costa rica after a car accident. My cousins in Europe all go to 3 week spas to feel better and carry on the next year as part of HC package.

In US it's all about money not care simple as that. HC executives are siphon billions who contribute nothing to care. Drug company CEOs make tens of millions. Many Drs are walking corporations. Hell my brother is an independent pharmacist and make near 7 figures.

It's pretty obvious when we spend twice and nearest neighbor per capita and can't even get everyone covered.

Egads. Your brother does not get paid that much as a pharmacist. I'd be long retired if we did.

 

[cybrsage]

It includes the money earned by shortchanging people and selling the pills on the side.

 

[SP33Demon]

A lot of chronic illnesses such as diabetes would have been totally prevented with regular doctor visits to advise and never occurred in the first place. But HC costs a lot for some and unavailable for many.

So what ends up happening is they get a disease, get on SSD, get medicare, and ends up costing taxpayers a fortune for the rest of thier lives for what could have been prvented with cheap dr visits.

Pay now or pay later but you always have to pay. - a saying

Yup, this is the point. To say that the rate of diabetes has nothing to do with the medical profession (like ElFenix said earlier) is preposterous. Just another example of egotistical Americans who can't let go of the fact that our healthcare is inferior for what we pay relative to countries with universal HC.

 

[Zebo]

Egads. Your brother does not get paid that much as a pharmacist. I'd be long retired if we did.

He does, He owns 3 pharmacies (1 just compounding no retail space) and a pain clinic I've seen the books, He wants me to take over managing them but I don't care to work that hard. Sure a staff pharmacist doesnt - they make $52 an hour but store they work if it's a chain makes millions. My brother is small time compared to just a single Walgreens.

 

[BoberFett]

He does, He owns 3 pharmacies (1 just compounding no retail space) and a pain clinic I've seen the books, He wants me to take over managing them but I don't care to work that hard. Sure a staff pharmacist doesnt - they make $52 an hour but store they work if it's a chain makes millions. My brother is small time compared to just a single Walgreens.

Then he's a business owner, not a pharmacist. There is a difference.

 

[Zebo]

Yup, this is the point. To say that the rate of diabetes has nothing to do with the medical profession (like ElFenix said earlier) is preposterous. Just another example of egotistical Americans who can't let go of the fact that our healthcare is inferior for what we pay relative to countries with universal HC.

There are hundreds of diseases to would be cheap to put off or never occur in the first place with regular Doctor visits/prescriptions. Diabetes to kidney failure to strokes. I think it a tax payer travesty we don't have UHC like other countries. Afterall govt already pays over 50% of HC costs now but in an ass backwards fashion - once you get really sick and unproductively poor - they cover high dollar treatment and put you on disability. Crazy.

 

[Zebo]

Then he's a business owner, not a pharmacist. There is a difference.

He still works it with white robe and name tag stupidly

Point is bober that party needs to come to an end if we are to have affordable HC. A pharmacist/pharmacy owner used to be squarely a middle class profession. Not so much anymore. My brother even says so with comments like "i'm gettin it while gettin is good" "govt will shut down this party someday".

Same BTW goes for lots of professions from university professors to cops with gold plated pensions. Has to do with leverage and debt which has seen astronomical rises via finacialization and artificial demand because of it - then you have to regulate supply. e.g HC

 

[BoberFett]

He still works it with white robe and name tag stupidly

Restarateurs may seat people from time to time, but I'd hardly call them waitstaff.

 

[shortylickens]

They really needed a study?
Hell I could have told them that for free.

Oh, and another tidbit which is NOT news is that most of our health issue are self-inflicted. We live like shit and get more heart disease than anyone else.

 

[Zebo]

Restaurateurs may seat people from time to time, but I'd hardly call them waitstaff.

There is this Italian place we love, I mean real deal, seems like most patrons are made guys with suits and stuff - I wouldn't even call the owners Restaurateurs but laundry men.

 

[fskimospy]

You can ask one more question. What happens in the US if there is an adverse outcome and expensive tests aren't done and what happens in japan?

According to the CBO, the entirety of malpractice claims in both judgments and premiums accounts for less than 2% of US health care spending. Defensive medicine also exerts a relatively modest effect on US health care costs, coming nowhere close to accounting for the disparity in spending.

Simply put, the US health care system is enormously inefficient. Socialized medicine just works better.

 

[Zebo]

ppl in medical profession love to blame lawyers, it who we all love to hate (until we need them to settle a civil dispute or get us out of jail) but they rarely look inward and compare themselves to aboard. Here they make a shit ton more money.

But not to get down on them too hard we have layers that don't do shit for health care like insurance and have biggest buildings in town and salaries that make doctors look anemic. You support that with supporting Obamacare.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

According to the CBO, the entirety of malpractice claims in both judgments and premiums accounts for less than 2% of US health care spending. Defensive medicine also exerts a relatively modest effect on US health care costs, coming nowhere close to accounting for the disparity in spending.

Simply put, the US health care system is enormously inefficient. Socialized medicine just works better.

Simply put no. A great many of those expensive tests are done because of the fear of potential liability which does not exist to the same degree as here.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

He still works it with white robe and name tag stupidly

Point is bober that party needs to come to an end if we are to have affordable HC. A pharmacist/pharmacy owner used to be squarely a middle class profession. Not so much anymore. My brother even says so with comments like "i'm gettin it while gettin is good" "govt will shut down this party someday".

Same BTW goes for lots of professions from university professors to cops with gold plated pensions. Has to do with leverage and debt which has seen astronomical rises via finacialization and artificial demand because of it - then you have to regulate supply. e.g HC

I know a guy who mows lawns who makes more than your brother. Considering the education and time needed to do the job properly and the stakes involved in screwing up thcoupled with horrible working conditions the pay ain't bad but it's not like you make it out for your brother who does it for the business side. Sure you can cut pay. Smart people can find other things to do

 

[fskimospy]

Simply put no. A great many of those expensive tests are done because of the fear of potential liability which does not exist to the same degree as here.

Simply put, you are wrong. There has been an extensive evaluation of defensive medicine and related costs in the United States and I am not aware of any analysis, even the most generous, (that is likely considerably inflated) that accounts for the disparity.

Even if you took every single dollar of malpractice premiums, awards, and defensive medicine out of US health care, you still have a considerably less efficient system. Furthermore, there is little evidence that tort 'reform' exerts a considerable effect on lowering ordered medical tests.

Speaking of Japan however, one of the reasons for low and predictable malpractice insurance in the country is that they have in effect socialized their national malpractice insurance industry. Another victory for socialized national insurance, huh?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Simply put, you are wrong. There has been an extensive evaluation of defensive medicine and related costs in the United States and I am not aware of any analysis, even the most generous, (that is likely considerably inflated) that accounts for the disparity.

Even if you took every single dollar of malpractice premiums, awards, and defensive medicine out of US health care, you still have a considerably less efficient system. Furthermore, there is little evidence that tort 'reform' exerts a considerable effect on lowering ordered medical tests.

Speaking of Japan however, one of the reasons for low and predictable malpractice insurance in the country is that they have in effect socialized their national malpractice insurance industry. Another victory for socialized national insurance, huh?

Tell that to the doctors then. But socialized medicine is your fundamental religion and arguing with a Creationist is pointless as evidenced by your resistance to expert analysis on advance of US health care reform. This isn't a socialist country with a socialist Constitution remember? BTW do Japanese have the virtually limitless ability to sue? Do practitioners there have a virtual certainty of being sued like some here?

 

[fskimospy]

Tell that to the doctors then. But socialized medicine is your fundamental religion and arguing with a Creationist is pointless as evidenced by your resistance to expert analysis on advance of US health care reform. This isn't a socialist country with a socialist Constitution remember? BTW do Japanese have the virtually limitless ability to sue? Do practitioners there have a virtual certainty of being sued like some here?

I'm sorry if you don't like independent evaluation of empirical evidence. I know it tells you things that you don't want to hear, but that's not my fault. Blame the unfairness of reality.

As for what our Constitution says, there is nothing in it that would prevent enacting every bit as socialist a country as anywhere in Europe or Japan. The constitution is a political document, it does not establish our economic system outside of some VERY general parameters that all modern countries with systems you would likely consider 'socialist' would almost entirely fall under.

For example, outside of some fringe nutters nobody attempts to argue that Medicare is unconstitutional. If the US government wanted to it could simply create an entirely socialized insurance industry for all of America, all inside the Constitution. Please think about this before trying to tell me what economic system the Constitution supposedly supports.

 

[Zebo]

I know a guy who mows lawns who makes more than your brother. Considering the education and time needed to do the job properly and the stakes involved in screwing up thcoupled with horrible working conditions the pay ain't bad but it's not like you make it out for your brother who does it for the business side. Sure you can cut pay. Smart people can find other things to do

Used to be an apprenticeship right after HS, then two year degree, My brother only has a BS, now its forever PhamD.

They simply ratcheted up cost/barrier to entry/and limited schools to keep salaries high. Oh I know the education arguments but I'm talking result of such activities.

As far as finding other things to do. Don't be ridiculous. Medical profession is one of the most profitable there is. Why do you think there are thousands of applications for 30-40 slots?

Are you gonna cut my lawn for $50? Takes 3 hours.

 

[shortylickens]

Used to be an apprenticeship right after HS, then two year degree, My brother only has a BS, now its forever PhamD.

They simply ratcheted up cost/barrier to entry/and limited schools to keep salaries high. Oh I know the education arguments but I'm talking result of such activities.

As far as finding other things to do. Don't be ridiculous. Medical profession is one of the most profitable there is. Why do you think there are thousands of applications for 30-40 slots?

Thats what my economics professor claimed. The AMA limits the amount of people in med school to fuck with free market. There are TONS of smart people who could probably practice medicine in real life, but they will never get the chance.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm sorry if you don't like independent evaluation of empirical evidence. I know it tells you things that you don't want to hear, but that's not my fault. Blame the unfairness of reality.

As for what our Constitution says, there is nothing in it that would prevent enacting every bit as socialist a country as anywhere in Europe or Japan. The constitution is a political document, it does not establish our economic system outside of some VERY general parameters that all modern countries with systems you would likely consider 'socialist' would almost entirely fall under.

For example, outside of some fringe nutters nobody attempts to argue that Medicare is unconstitutional. If the US government wanted to it could simply create an entirely socialized insurance industry for all of America, all inside the Constitution. Please think about this before trying to tell me what economic system the Constitution supposedly supports.

You have zero examples of a system you propose so you have no proof of anything. Further you never explained how the Republicans and Democrats who have absolutely no concept of health care but do have a propensity to throw a wrench into each others plans will suddenly have the time to learn what needs to be done and hand out flowers to each other around the political campfire. Of course we could figure out what to do, but you have your noncontextual book of Genesis and one must not question.

As far as the medicare comparison you have already granted the federal government unlimited power over us however how the SCOTUS will respond to an intentional takeover remains to be seen. Truman didn't have much luck last time. All we must do is believe in our rep and dem leaders.

No, I want effort put out by those who have a clue on how to approach the most complex task on history. You don't. So be it.