Thats assuming a lossless connection between the base and the heatpipes though, in both scenarios actually, and thats only possible if the heatpipe were forged out of the same piece of copper as the base which they're not because it would be essentially impossible to properly forge a good heatpipe, they have t obe made out of cold rolled or seamless wall tubing and they can't be welded to the base after the tubes have been filled and hermetically sealed because the temperature required for welding would fuse the powder used in the good heatpipes and god only knows what it would do to a liquid filled one but, I tend to think the end closest to the weld would burst. So we're stuck with heatpipes that are either pressed into place or that are welded before being sealed. Even then, though welds are stronger than the metals they're holding together, they don't transfer heat as well becuase they've been anealed(molecularly re-aligned by heat). That loss percentage makes them less efficient than water straight into a copper base. IMHO atleast.
Thats assuming a lossless connection between the base and the heatpipes though, in both scenarios actually, and thats only possible if the heatpipe were forged out of the same piece of copper as the base which they're not because it would be essentially impossible to properly forge a good heatpipe, they have t obe made out of cold rolled or seamless wall tubing and they can't be welded to the base after the tubes have been filled and hermetically sealed because the temperature required for welding would fuse the powder used in the good heatpipes and god only knows what it would do to a liquid filled one but, I tend to think the end closest to the weld would burst. So we're stuck with heatpipes that are either pressed into place or that are welded before being sealed. Even then, though welds are stronger than the metals they're holding together, they don't transfer heat as well becuase they've been anealed(molecularly re-aligned by heat). That loss percentage makes them less efficient than water straight into a copper base. IMHO atleast.
Rubycon
Madame President
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Sure there is a loss but it affords a mechanically sound escapement for higher density loads. Waterblock designs can be more efficient operating with higher flows and with better dwell ratios which would be un-achievable with traditional cpu block designs. This would allow for higher TDP's and we're sure to see them particularly on the high end where as many as 32 cores may get slammed into a socket along with a few billion transistors for cache, etc.
True, I have to say though, once we get to 32 core cpu's they're going to have to be completely specialized or are going to have to be a completely new architecture. x86 will not hold codesets for 32 general purpose CPU's and retain any level of efficiency even in full SMP not to mention the kinds of bus speeds we're going to need to offload data from 32 seperate cores. There would literally have to be a gigabyte of internal shared L2 or L3 cache to even make 32 cores feasable with x86 and it's still going to be a waste. Parallel processing will only get us so far. Beyond the feasability of programming for 32 cores and data transfer, the size is going to be enormous, even if reduced to the bare minimum of molecule level transistors(IMHO about 12-14nm process size) with a gig of cache and 32 cores the chip itself, not including the packagine is going to be the size of a tuniq towers top, and the packaging for enough leads means it's almost going to have to be motherboard intergrated or it's going to take up 1/4 of an EATX motherboard. I honestly don't think that more than 8 cores will be put onto a single chip and I still think that is a waste of R&D time that should be spent on optical datapaths and new and better isolators. Carbon nano-tubes are going to be tough to implement into the PC due to their electrical tequirements. A tuniq or a TRUE would be the base cooling for a processor made up of carbon nanotubes. We're at a very interesting point in personal computing. The next decade should be one heck of a ride.
PCTC2
Diamond Member
- Feb 18, 2007
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JAB-TECH LINK!!!
EDIT: Oh, I would hop on it, but I just bought another watercooling system. You know, I'd rather have another PA 120.3 w/ Swiftech Apogee GTX than that behemoth on my motherboard.
EDIT: Oh, I would hop on it, but I just bought another watercooling system. You know, I'd rather have another PA 120.3 w/ Swiftech Apogee GTX than that behemoth on my motherboard.
I just noticed something. The heatpipes only enter the base in sets of 5 so there are heatpipes stacked on top of one another. Thats just plain dumb. Unless the pipes are internally welded to one another the heat stransfer to the top set of heatpipes is going to be minimal and even if they are welded to one another inside the base, the top 5 heatpipes are probaby going to be useless on a dualcore, especially a wolfie, if you don't have a quadcore, don't bother!
DerwenArtos12......Stacking heatpipes on top of each other is not new. The Scythe Ninja has used this technique for the last five years since it was first sold. It has two sets of three heatpipes. Where the cross over each other at the base, they are soldered(maybe some sort of epoxy).
I have checked the temperature differences between the two sets of heatpipes on my three Ninja setups. I could find no differences at all. This indicates to me that the technique can be made to work well. As long as all the heatpipes are thermally connected where they cross each other, this new cooler should work similar to the Ninja.
The problem with a large number of heatpipes that are side-by-side as they cross the base.....they are too wide, much wider than the CPU. The outer-most heatpipes would surely suffer in such a setup.
This new Scythe cooler should work.....wait for somebody to try one.
I have checked the temperature differences between the two sets of heatpipes on my three Ninja setups. I could find no differences at all. This indicates to me that the technique can be made to work well. As long as all the heatpipes are thermally connected where they cross each other, this new cooler should work similar to the Ninja.
The problem with a large number of heatpipes that are side-by-side as they cross the base.....they are too wide, much wider than the CPU. The outer-most heatpipes would surely suffer in such a setup.
This new Scythe cooler should work.....wait for somebody to try one.
Originally posted by: Bluefront
DerwenArtos12......Stacking heatpipes on top of each other is not new. The Scythe Ninja has used this technique for the last five years since it was first sold. It has two sets of three heatpipes. Where the cross over each other at the base, they are soldered(maybe some sort of epoxy).
I have checked the temperature differences between the two sets of heatpipes on my three Ninja setups. I could find no differences at all. This indicates to me that the technique can be made to work well. As long as all the heatpipes are thermally connected where they cross each other, this new cooler should work similar to the Ninja.
The problem with a large number of heatpipes that are side-by-side as they cross the base.....they are too wide, much wider than the CPU. The outer-most heatpipes would surely suffer in such a setup.
This new Scythe cooler should work.....wait for somebody to try one.
I didnt' say it wouldn't work, just that there is no way for the top heatpipes to reach the temperature needed to phase change and transfer heat to really any efficient degree without the added watts of a quadcore. Five 8mm powder heatsinks should be able to dissipate about 150watts quite efficiently if proper contact is made to the heat source. Therefore the top 5 won't have enough heat to effectively phase change and transfer the heat. I will agree with their design in that the top set of pipes are shorter to help keep them phasing but and the cooler will certainly work on dual cores, just as well as any massive cooler with 5 heatpipes, but it won't cool a dual core better than an TRUE given teh true has 6 - 8mm powder heatpipes therefore has the capacity for about 180w. An overclocked and rather drastically overvolted quadcore should see some benefits in load temperatures though.
Rubycon
Madame President
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That and the fact their blocks use fins on them. Thermalright does not for a reason. That's a big cooler and probably would not fit in my 830. I'd be willing to try it though. I use a Ninja as a decoration because it was useless to me. Perfect example of mounting. S775 system it could not cool at all, put it on a 939 system and I could run a FX60 @3GHz FULLY LOADED passive! without a problem. Go figure.
The mounting and surface flatness are crucial to top tier heatsink performance. Just as you can have 1000 hp under the hood, if you have a bad transmission or screwy tyres - you will have poor performance.
The mounting and surface flatness are crucial to top tier heatsink performance. Just as you can have 1000 hp under the hood, if you have a bad transmission or screwy tyres - you will have poor performance.
I disagree. Why look inside the case if this is the only thing you'll see?Originally posted by: wired247
great if people are constantly looking inside your case...
seriously though, it isn't even that sexy or chic of a design, its just a ginormous block of heatsink
I think the fins on the block is just for decoration or extra bait for ignorant consumers. Many reviews will reveal that those fins are just loosely bolted on with no thermal interface even...
Originally posted by: aigomorla
the top is screamnig for someone to drop a chunk of dice ontop of it.
dice = dry ice for those that don't spend time at XS.
- Sep 28, 2005
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Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
Originally posted by: aigomorla
the top is screamnig for someone to drop a chunk of dice ontop of it.
dice = dry ice for those that don't spend time at XS.
should add that dice is for the advance overclocker. Should not be attempted unless u know about proper condensation prevention.
- Sep 28, 2005
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Originally posted by: Rubycon
If one goes to all the trouble to insulate and dope they might as well install a cascade system.
lol.. big difference in size tho.
Dice... ummm all you would need is a small bucket full.
dual stage cascade... lol... you'd probably find a smaller 17inch CRT monitor.
Is it just me or are stacked heatpipes a bad idea? The lower 5 heatpipes will absorb most of the heat, and the upper 5 will get only minimal heat. Anyone else thinking about his?
Rubycon
Madame President
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For hardcore use I'm sure the space isn't much of a factor. Expendable refrigeration whether CO2, LN2, LAr, LHe, etc. is expensive and hazardous! A closed loop refrigeration system like your freezer in the galley, for example; is much safer for long term continuous use.
On another note it's very easy to make dry ice. Risk of suffocation in areas of poor ventilation is a real risk! Make sure you have plenty of ventilation when using this stuff.
Yes - Scythe seems to be more of a "novel engineered" product of late. If they focused on better plate escapement and mounting systems they'd be right up there with TR.
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