- Jan 29, 2005
- 5,177
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I wasn't sure as to where to post this since... well, since it relates to the Memory, and probably (well, surely) the Motherboard and the CPU as well. But since the 'main' meal and subject concerns the Memory then I went with this board, since it's technically going to be an overclock (but feel free to move this over to the Memory & Storage forum if it needs to, of course).
Disclaimer: Yeah, long post... sorry but I have to, too many questions to ask and I haven't done any OC whatsoever in more than five years (last CPU I OC'd was my Duo E6600, back when it was new).
Anyway, so I just finished building my new system upgrade yesterday. It's the first time I do this in about five years. I moved from Sandy Bridge to Ryzen (and from 8GB Memory to 16GB, going with new 'standards' and such as I do every 4 to 5 years). Now, keep in mind that I've never truly 'pushed' any hardware much via overclocking before, not even on my i7 2600K (which I left on Stock speeds for the longest time).
Now, I do NOT really want to overclock the CPU, although there's plenty of automated ways to do that nowadays via the BIOS (OC Tuner) or via official software or "A.I. Suites" and so on. So maybe at some point I'll do it. I do know that the OC Tuner sends my 1600 to 3.5Ghz with just one click and one reboot without even touching anything (although I wouldn't know if that default setting would be stable, I just checked for curiosity and that's what I saw but I went back to default after that).
With this said, however, what I DO want to do is to try to run the Memory I bought to the speed that Corsair claims it can reach. I AM aware that there's no such thing as 'default' high speed memory past a certain point, and everything past that is technically an overclock and is NEVER a "guarantee". I DID go in knowing that fully and I'll just keep it at its 'real default' 2133Mhz forever if the thing stubbornly wants to stay there. But considering that Ryzen LOVES high frequency Memory and how I managed to get my hands on a nice deal for it at my local store I decided to go for it instead (going for rated 3000 Memory instead of just buying a kit at default speeds).
So here's the hardware: Ryzen 5 1600 (regular, non-X), ASUS B350 Prime Plus, and finally (and importantly for this thread) the Corsair Vengeance CMK16GX4M2B3000C15. More precisely, its version is 5.30, which means from what I've found out that it has SK Hynix memory (and that SK Hynix isn't as good as Samsung especially for Ryzen, but does work anyway).
Now I do have some questions first (and I'm giving some info in there too):
1) D.O.C.P... so what is that? From what I've read it's an 'Intel Technology' and isn't meant to be used on Ryzen systems... but the BIOS settings of my ASUS B350 motherboard (an AM4 board only for AMD CPUs) actually has that thing. So... if it's just meant to be used with Intel CPUs, why bothering to including it? And should I use it if it's there or is that just an oversight by ASUS? Or is the information about how it's "just" for Intel completely wrong and I should ignore that completely?
2) By default the memory runs at 2133Mhz, with timings of 15-17-17-35 at 1.200 volt. That I completely expected it (as I mentioned I know past that they're overclocks). Now here what I'd like to know is: Can I RELY on "automated" profiles like the above DOCP system to "overclock" my memory and expect it to be stable? Or SHOULD I essentially avoid 'automation' and always attempt anything I do manually for higher control? I do assume right away that I should do everything manually, but I'm asking since I have read a number of posts from users (of that specific memory kit) having a lot of success by just clicking a profile after updating their BIOS and * magically * their frequency goes from default all the way to 2933 or even more.
3) In the BIOS settings, there's a place called "ASUS SPD Information" for the Memory, when I check that it lists two columns. The 'first' column clearly represents what the timings and voltages should be set at (or are recognized at) by default when it runs at 2133Mhz. However, the second column which is the one I found to be interesting actually lists the information for timings and voltages for a speed of 3000 which is indeed what my specific kit is rated to run at.
It looks like this for the 3000Mhz settings:
1.350v
tCL 15
tRCD 17
tRP 17
tRAS 35
tRC 53
I'm skipping some details here but it lists other timings for other values like tRRDS or tRFC1 and other more 'obscure' values that I've never really payed attention to in the past nor know anything useful about (but at least they do list what those values apparently "should" be set at).
Now the main question about that ASUS SPD Information section in the BIOS is this: Are those timings info actually set by ASUS themselves AND are those timings specifically for the board it appears in? Or is there a chance that those timings were somewhat set 'arbitrarily' and sort of only serve as an indication of what those timings should be "set around" for BOTH Intel and Ryzen systems regardless of the actual motherboard and chipset being used?
There's just no actual description in the BIOS. You just click SPD Info and boom, you get those two columns and that's it. I don't blame them mind you, their job isn't to play teacher with me. But it's vague and I'm running Ryzen, and Ryzen's performance heavily depends on high memory frequency... and I bought one such kit, and I'd like to give it a try. But not blindly. I'd like to know a bit more.
4) Generally-speaking, is it better to overclock the Memory via the BIOS, manually; or to do it via an official tool via Windows? For example, in my case, that would be AMD's Ryzen Master tool (which I already downloaded but haven't used yet).
5) What's better to improve "chances" of a successful and stable overclock between increasing the memory voltage or increasing ("loosening"?) the timings? For example, leaving the 'rated' timings as shown in the sticker itself (15-17-17-35) but trying that at a slightly increased voltage, or instead leaving the voltage where it's "supposed" to be at (according to the sticker) and going with higher timings like... say... 16-18-18-36, and so on. Well, I know simply that the best answer is trial and error, to "try it all" but I'd still like advice from people who are used to do this.
6) Not questions here but on a side note, perhaps it's important to mention but I DID actually check ASUS' official memory QVL list of officially-supported Memory for the motherboard first. I didn't just blindly go buy the first kit I saw at the store. The list does mention the same kit I bought as being compatible with the exact same timings and voltage as the info shown on the memory's sticker. The only difference is that the SECOND QVL list they uploaded had that memory info 'updated' in the list with a specific memory version next to it. And what the store clerk told me about that is that it only means that they 'recommend' a specific version (probably the one with Samsung memory instead of Hynix) but that any version lower or higher than the one specified in the list will still work (especially at default frequencies).
7) This will sound stupid I suppose but whatever, I'm asking anyway. Do I NEED to overclock or perhaps even downclock the CPU in order to overclock the Memory? Or can I leave the CPU at default settings and separately overclock the Memory? More on that below, it's an important point, I think...
8) So yeah related to the above, the main reason why I ask this is because I saw only a few posts from random users out there about a so-called 'Power Phase' issue I think it was called? I'm not sure (can't find those posts anymore). It relates (apparently) to how SOME specific Motherboards are causing a potential "I'm going to refuse to overclock your Memory" issue IF the user decides to overclock the CPU as well specifically for Ryzen systems (that issue is supposedly non-existent for Intel but I'm not sure on that one). So in other words... say... I want to overclock my memory from 2133Mhz to 2933Mhz, but it will NEVER Post past the BIOS if I was to coincidentally overclock the CPU, or even if the CPU was to go higher than base default with any automatic boost system. And in those specific cases when that issue pops-up, the user HAS to FIX the CPU speed to stay at base default at all times in order to be able to overclock the Memory to any extent. At least that's what I understood from the few posts about it that I read. So is ANY of that actually true?
9) Is trying to overclock directly from default 2133Mhz to the 'rated' 3000Mhz "risky" in any way? Or should I actually considering doing it incrementally to sort of 'gently' push the Memory? However, I do assume that Corsair themselves just went bunkers on those modules in their test environments, and from what I have read on the subject as long as the voltage does not stupidly get past a certain point one can try almost anything on them suddenly or not, that it won't really make a difference (as long as the voltage remains within 'standards' and don't get past those unless you're willing to risk permanently damaging or frying the poor thing).
10) Another side note here, I actually already and successfully updated the motherboard to the latest (1002) BIOS version from a USB stick, everything went well. I also performed a 'full CMOS reset' (something I did still remember doing, there's that at least) after doing so (removing the battery, unplugging the power cord from the PSU, 'shorting' the two pins for reset purposes; then loading optimized defaults from the new BIOS version and rebooting again to make sure everything is at their default new values). So that step is done if it was necessary to do first.
11) So... recommendations for my specific setup? Anyone whom happen to also have the same components? I do expect to get a loop at Post if I just go with 2933Mhz from the start, even if I set the voltage to 1.35v. Should I increase the "SOC" voltage as well? (I've read that doing that can be risky and is preferable to just increase one or two timings instead).
Last, but not least, if I do get past Post and get to the Desktop without freezing or BSOD'ing to the abyss, which "Memory stress test" other than Prime95 should I consider? I've read that Prime95 is better to use when BOTH the CPU and the Memory are OC'ed (not sure if it's true). And I've read that MemTest (run in the BIOS) isn't actually good for testing the stability, and instead is only good to see if there's 'errors' in Memory blocks or whatever that does (again, not sure... just reporting what I read in layman's terms; being very much a layman myself in all this Memory OC'ing shenanigan).
I think I covered all the points I wanted to, thanks for reading to this point if you did. I do require the 'education' on the subject. I don't want to do anything too fast. I do expect errors and fails, that's normal as OC'ing is time consuming (I do remember that well enough, I remember spending a WEEK pushing my E6600 by a mere 500Mhz to get it stable... oh yeah, good times... not). I'm not afraid of fails, but I do want to know that the attempts I do make were made 'properly'.
Thanks for your time and advice.
Disclaimer: Yeah, long post... sorry but I have to, too many questions to ask and I haven't done any OC whatsoever in more than five years (last CPU I OC'd was my Duo E6600, back when it was new).
Anyway, so I just finished building my new system upgrade yesterday. It's the first time I do this in about five years. I moved from Sandy Bridge to Ryzen (and from 8GB Memory to 16GB, going with new 'standards' and such as I do every 4 to 5 years). Now, keep in mind that I've never truly 'pushed' any hardware much via overclocking before, not even on my i7 2600K (which I left on Stock speeds for the longest time).
Now, I do NOT really want to overclock the CPU, although there's plenty of automated ways to do that nowadays via the BIOS (OC Tuner) or via official software or "A.I. Suites" and so on. So maybe at some point I'll do it. I do know that the OC Tuner sends my 1600 to 3.5Ghz with just one click and one reboot without even touching anything (although I wouldn't know if that default setting would be stable, I just checked for curiosity and that's what I saw but I went back to default after that).
With this said, however, what I DO want to do is to try to run the Memory I bought to the speed that Corsair claims it can reach. I AM aware that there's no such thing as 'default' high speed memory past a certain point, and everything past that is technically an overclock and is NEVER a "guarantee". I DID go in knowing that fully and I'll just keep it at its 'real default' 2133Mhz forever if the thing stubbornly wants to stay there. But considering that Ryzen LOVES high frequency Memory and how I managed to get my hands on a nice deal for it at my local store I decided to go for it instead (going for rated 3000 Memory instead of just buying a kit at default speeds).
So here's the hardware: Ryzen 5 1600 (regular, non-X), ASUS B350 Prime Plus, and finally (and importantly for this thread) the Corsair Vengeance CMK16GX4M2B3000C15. More precisely, its version is 5.30, which means from what I've found out that it has SK Hynix memory (and that SK Hynix isn't as good as Samsung especially for Ryzen, but does work anyway).
Now I do have some questions first (and I'm giving some info in there too):
1) D.O.C.P... so what is that? From what I've read it's an 'Intel Technology' and isn't meant to be used on Ryzen systems... but the BIOS settings of my ASUS B350 motherboard (an AM4 board only for AMD CPUs) actually has that thing. So... if it's just meant to be used with Intel CPUs, why bothering to including it? And should I use it if it's there or is that just an oversight by ASUS? Or is the information about how it's "just" for Intel completely wrong and I should ignore that completely?
2) By default the memory runs at 2133Mhz, with timings of 15-17-17-35 at 1.200 volt. That I completely expected it (as I mentioned I know past that they're overclocks). Now here what I'd like to know is: Can I RELY on "automated" profiles like the above DOCP system to "overclock" my memory and expect it to be stable? Or SHOULD I essentially avoid 'automation' and always attempt anything I do manually for higher control? I do assume right away that I should do everything manually, but I'm asking since I have read a number of posts from users (of that specific memory kit) having a lot of success by just clicking a profile after updating their BIOS and * magically * their frequency goes from default all the way to 2933 or even more.
3) In the BIOS settings, there's a place called "ASUS SPD Information" for the Memory, when I check that it lists two columns. The 'first' column clearly represents what the timings and voltages should be set at (or are recognized at) by default when it runs at 2133Mhz. However, the second column which is the one I found to be interesting actually lists the information for timings and voltages for a speed of 3000 which is indeed what my specific kit is rated to run at.
It looks like this for the 3000Mhz settings:
1.350v
tCL 15
tRCD 17
tRP 17
tRAS 35
tRC 53
I'm skipping some details here but it lists other timings for other values like tRRDS or tRFC1 and other more 'obscure' values that I've never really payed attention to in the past nor know anything useful about (but at least they do list what those values apparently "should" be set at).
Now the main question about that ASUS SPD Information section in the BIOS is this: Are those timings info actually set by ASUS themselves AND are those timings specifically for the board it appears in? Or is there a chance that those timings were somewhat set 'arbitrarily' and sort of only serve as an indication of what those timings should be "set around" for BOTH Intel and Ryzen systems regardless of the actual motherboard and chipset being used?
There's just no actual description in the BIOS. You just click SPD Info and boom, you get those two columns and that's it. I don't blame them mind you, their job isn't to play teacher with me. But it's vague and I'm running Ryzen, and Ryzen's performance heavily depends on high memory frequency... and I bought one such kit, and I'd like to give it a try. But not blindly. I'd like to know a bit more.
4) Generally-speaking, is it better to overclock the Memory via the BIOS, manually; or to do it via an official tool via Windows? For example, in my case, that would be AMD's Ryzen Master tool (which I already downloaded but haven't used yet).
5) What's better to improve "chances" of a successful and stable overclock between increasing the memory voltage or increasing ("loosening"?) the timings? For example, leaving the 'rated' timings as shown in the sticker itself (15-17-17-35) but trying that at a slightly increased voltage, or instead leaving the voltage where it's "supposed" to be at (according to the sticker) and going with higher timings like... say... 16-18-18-36, and so on. Well, I know simply that the best answer is trial and error, to "try it all" but I'd still like advice from people who are used to do this.
6) Not questions here but on a side note, perhaps it's important to mention but I DID actually check ASUS' official memory QVL list of officially-supported Memory for the motherboard first. I didn't just blindly go buy the first kit I saw at the store. The list does mention the same kit I bought as being compatible with the exact same timings and voltage as the info shown on the memory's sticker. The only difference is that the SECOND QVL list they uploaded had that memory info 'updated' in the list with a specific memory version next to it. And what the store clerk told me about that is that it only means that they 'recommend' a specific version (probably the one with Samsung memory instead of Hynix) but that any version lower or higher than the one specified in the list will still work (especially at default frequencies).
7) This will sound stupid I suppose but whatever, I'm asking anyway. Do I NEED to overclock or perhaps even downclock the CPU in order to overclock the Memory? Or can I leave the CPU at default settings and separately overclock the Memory? More on that below, it's an important point, I think...
8) So yeah related to the above, the main reason why I ask this is because I saw only a few posts from random users out there about a so-called 'Power Phase' issue I think it was called? I'm not sure (can't find those posts anymore). It relates (apparently) to how SOME specific Motherboards are causing a potential "I'm going to refuse to overclock your Memory" issue IF the user decides to overclock the CPU as well specifically for Ryzen systems (that issue is supposedly non-existent for Intel but I'm not sure on that one). So in other words... say... I want to overclock my memory from 2133Mhz to 2933Mhz, but it will NEVER Post past the BIOS if I was to coincidentally overclock the CPU, or even if the CPU was to go higher than base default with any automatic boost system. And in those specific cases when that issue pops-up, the user HAS to FIX the CPU speed to stay at base default at all times in order to be able to overclock the Memory to any extent. At least that's what I understood from the few posts about it that I read. So is ANY of that actually true?
9) Is trying to overclock directly from default 2133Mhz to the 'rated' 3000Mhz "risky" in any way? Or should I actually considering doing it incrementally to sort of 'gently' push the Memory? However, I do assume that Corsair themselves just went bunkers on those modules in their test environments, and from what I have read on the subject as long as the voltage does not stupidly get past a certain point one can try almost anything on them suddenly or not, that it won't really make a difference (as long as the voltage remains within 'standards' and don't get past those unless you're willing to risk permanently damaging or frying the poor thing).
10) Another side note here, I actually already and successfully updated the motherboard to the latest (1002) BIOS version from a USB stick, everything went well. I also performed a 'full CMOS reset' (something I did still remember doing, there's that at least) after doing so (removing the battery, unplugging the power cord from the PSU, 'shorting' the two pins for reset purposes; then loading optimized defaults from the new BIOS version and rebooting again to make sure everything is at their default new values). So that step is done if it was necessary to do first.
11) So... recommendations for my specific setup? Anyone whom happen to also have the same components? I do expect to get a loop at Post if I just go with 2933Mhz from the start, even if I set the voltage to 1.35v. Should I increase the "SOC" voltage as well? (I've read that doing that can be risky and is preferable to just increase one or two timings instead).
Last, but not least, if I do get past Post and get to the Desktop without freezing or BSOD'ing to the abyss, which "Memory stress test" other than Prime95 should I consider? I've read that Prime95 is better to use when BOTH the CPU and the Memory are OC'ed (not sure if it's true). And I've read that MemTest (run in the BIOS) isn't actually good for testing the stability, and instead is only good to see if there's 'errors' in Memory blocks or whatever that does (again, not sure... just reporting what I read in layman's terms; being very much a layman myself in all this Memory OC'ing shenanigan).
I think I covered all the points I wanted to, thanks for reading to this point if you did. I do require the 'education' on the subject. I don't want to do anything too fast. I do expect errors and fails, that's normal as OC'ing is time consuming (I do remember that well enough, I remember spending a WEEK pushing my E6600 by a mere 500Mhz to get it stable... oh yeah, good times... not). I'm not afraid of fails, but I do want to know that the attempts I do make were made 'properly'.
Thanks for your time and advice.
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