New "reliable" computer needed, Dell?

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Well, if you want to BUILD a reliable system, thats easy for $1000. Just let us know, and it will blow that Dell out of the water for gaming. How about this ?

ANTEC Life Style Series Black Case With 380W Power Supply, Model "SONATA"
Item# N82E16811129127 $95.99

NEC 8X Black Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive, Model ND-2510A BLK, OEM BULK
Item# N82E16827152023 $69.99

Seagate 120GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model ST3120026A, OEM
Item# N82E16822148022 $88.50

Mushkin 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - Retail
Item# N82E16820146219 $156.00

CHAINTECH nForce3 250 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 Athlon 64 CPU, Model "VNF3-250" -RETAIL
Item# N82E16813152043 $78.00

AMD Athlon 64 3400+, 512k L2 Cache, The Only 64-bit Windows Compatible Processor - Retail
Item# N82E16819103484 $235.00

eVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6800 Video Card, 128MB GDDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model "128-A8-N343-AX" -RETAIL
Item# N82E16814130202 $285.00

Total (Before tax): $ 1,008.48

Get rid of that garbage chaintech and you have a nice system there

if that board is garbage, then why did a website called anandtech(you may have heard of it) rate the board very highly? also, if it is garbage, why did it work perfectly on both occasions that i used it?

get hit by a buy troll.


**EDIT** (double ownage on this n00b.) Text
"We are extremely pleased to award our Silver Editors Choice to the Chaintech VNF-250 motherboard. As the first in a new Zenith Value Series, we think Chaintech has a great idea - build an overclocker's dream board with all the performance and none of the frills for the lowest possible price. Chaintech also managed to do it without giving up really important features, which is even more commendable. The fact that Chaintech was a top performer in our overclocking tests at a price of less than $100 deserves our award. The VNF-250 proves that you can build a board any enthusiast will want without breaking the bank. Well done, Chaintech." ~anandtech

 

[DrCool]

Originally posted by: techwanabe
My folks have given me $1000 to buy a "reliable" computer - they suggest Dell. Naturally since I have been building computers for 4 years, it isn't an option that I'd prefer, but I have to look into the Dell option, esp because I don't care for Gateway, Compaq or HP. Dell have been difficult to self service in the past but they seem to be getting better.

Any suggestions for Dell? General comments?

They come with flat panel monitors in many current systems, are they any good for casual gamers?

Just to set the record straight..

No Major OEMs build 'reliable' or 'quality' anything nowadays..

Dell USED TO make quality stuff (like back in 1992) those days have come and went. They are now just as bad, maybe even worse then the other major players (HP+Compaq and Gateway)

There are only 3 major OEM's nowadays, they are HP+Compaq, Gateway, and Dell.. and they are all the same, except their logos!

what you'll get with Dell, HP+Compaq, and Gateway:
1) shi*Ty components, that will start to fail within 12 months or sooner
2) support from monkeys, who don't EVEN SPEAK ENGLISH!!
3) big o'le 1 year warranty (worthless!) as you have to go through the manufacturer to utilize it (refer back to the MONKEYS!)

if that's your definition of 'reliable' and 'quality' go right ahead and spend away.

I find it some what distrubing that you've been working with computers for 4 years, and this is a tough decision for you..

some potential problems right off the bat:

- Antec LanBoy POS
- Geil Memory POS
- EpoX POS
- Adequate Cooling for your Processor and Case?

fix those issues, and you should have a decent setup.

 

[DrCool]

Originally posted by: nick1985
if that board is garbage, then why did a website called anandtech(you may have heard of it) rate the board very highly? also, if it is garbage, why did it work perfectly on both occasions that i used it?

get hit by a buy troll.


**EDIT** (double ownage on this n00b.) Text
"We are extremely pleased to award our Silver Editors Choice to the Chaintech VNF-250 motherboard. As the first in a new Zenith Value Series, we think Chaintech has a great idea - build an overclocker's dream board with all the performance and none of the frills for the lowest possible price. Chaintech also managed to do it without giving up really important features, which is even more commendable. The fact that Chaintech was a top performer in our overclocking tests at a price of less than $100 deserves our award. The VNF-250 proves that you can build a board any enthusiast will want without breaking the bank. Well done, Chaintech." ~anandtech

I'll see that review and I'll raise you this one!

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTUzLDY=

We cannot point a finger at any specific problems that need to be fixed with the ZNF3-150. We can point to an evaluation that was riddled with bad experiences, and a bad experience is the last thing any of us want when putting together a new box. If the ZNF3-150 seems like the board for you and a new Athlon64 CPU, I think I would hold out just a little while longer and make sure and read some more reviews on this product. ~Kyle Bennet (hardocp)

we can do this back and forth, but that's already 1/2 (50%) why take the risk?

 

[DeadPoetic86]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Well, if you want to BUILD a reliable system, thats easy for $1000. Just let us know, and it will blow that Dell out of the water for gaming. How about this ?

ANTEC Life Style Series Black Case With 380W Power Supply, Model "SONATA"
Item# N82E16811129127 $95.99

NEC 8X Black Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive, Model ND-2510A BLK, OEM BULK
Item# N82E16827152023 $69.99

Seagate 120GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model ST3120026A, OEM
Item# N82E16822148022 $88.50

Mushkin 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - Retail
Item# N82E16820146219 $156.00

CHAINTECH nForce3 250 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 Athlon 64 CPU, Model "VNF3-250" -RETAIL
Item# N82E16813152043 $78.00

AMD Athlon 64 3400+, 512k L2 Cache, The Only 64-bit Windows Compatible Processor - Retail
Item# N82E16819103484 $235.00

eVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6800 Video Card, 128MB GDDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model "128-A8-N343-AX" -RETAIL
Item# N82E16814130202 $285.00

Total (Before tax): $ 1,008.48

Get rid of that garbage chaintech and you have a nice system there

if that board is garbage, then why did a website called anandtech(you may have heard of it) rate the board very highly? also, if it is garbage, why did it work perfectly on both occasions that i used it?

get hit by a buy troll.


**EDIT** (double ownage on this n00b.) Text
"We are extremely pleased to award our Silver Editors Choice to the Chaintech VNF-250 motherboard. As the first in a new Zenith Value Series, we think Chaintech has a great idea - build an overclocker's dream board with all the performance and none of the frills for the lowest possible price. Chaintech also managed to do it without giving up really important features, which is even more commendable. The fact that Chaintech was a top performer in our overclocking tests at a price of less than $100 deserves our award. The VNF-250 proves that you can build a board any enthusiast will want without breaking the bank. Well done, Chaintech." ~anandtech

Agreed, I've never had any trouble at all with any chaintech products. They've all worked perfectly for me in fact. Also, after reading anand's review and few others as well ( Alll gave this board very good reviews), I purchased one; set up perfectly, overclocked very well, no problems at all. Get your facts straight before you start giving out bullshit advice.


"'ll see that review and I'll raise you this one!

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTUzLDY= "

That review is almost a year old. There have been several bios updates and it's been fixed. I dont' think I need to say much else.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Adn4n
Wasn't there just a post in the video forum as to why dell monitors suck? Or was that an LCD?

Part of the reason the dell deal is so hot is that you get a $475 19" LCD for $50... Even if he does have a monitor he plans to use, he could easily sell the monitor for a good $400 making the Dell deal even better. Whether he would want to keep or sell the monitor you can't beat a complete $1500 Dell system for $500 off and a free 19" LCD upgrade... Heck, upgrade the X800SE to a 6800GTO and it won't be "killed" by the $1000 do it yourself AMD rig as the GTO is actually faster than the NU, the CPUs won't make the much of a difference.

 

[DGath]

Originally posted by: techwanabe
Why the wipe and install from scratch?

Not sure on exactly what they are preinstalling nowadays, and its even worse with HPs (I believe), but all the extra software they load on there will slow the thing down right out of the box. But I also love fresh installs of XP becuase of how fast they are.

 

[DGath]

Originally posted by: DrCool

Originally posted by: techwanabe
My folks have given me $1000 to buy a "reliable" computer - they suggest Dell. Naturally since I have been building computers for 4 years, it isn't an option that I'd prefer, but I have to look into the Dell option, esp because I don't care for Gateway, Compaq or HP. Dell have been difficult to self service in the past but they seem to be getting better.

Any suggestions for Dell? General comments?

They come with flat panel monitors in many current systems, are they any good for casual gamers?

Just to set the record straight..

No Major OEMs build 'reliable' or 'quality' anything nowadays..

Dell USED TO make quality stuff (like back in 1992) those days have come and went. They are now just as bad, maybe even worse then the other major players (HP+Compaq and Gateway)

There are only 3 major OEM's nowadays, they are HP+Compaq, Gateway, and Dell.. and they are all the same, except their logos!

what you'll get with Dell, HP+Compaq, and Gateway:
1) shi*Ty components, that will start to fail within 12 months or sooner
2) support from monkeys, who don't EVEN SPEAK ENGLISH!!
3) big o'le 1 year warranty (worthless!) as you have to go through the manufacturer to utilize it (refer back to the MONKEYS!)

if that's your definition of 'reliable' and 'quality' go right ahead and spend away.

I find it some what distrubing that you've been working with computers for 4 years, and this is a tough decision for you..

some potential problems right off the bat:

- Antec LanBoy POS
- Geil Memory POS
- EpoX POS
- Adequate Cooling for your Processor and Case?

fix those issues, and you should have a decent setup.

I think general concensus around here is that you are wrong. See
this thread for more detail. Dell/HP/Gateway don't really make crappy computers as long as you don't go on the low end. Their high end computers are just as good as most of the things that are built. How can you build a "bad" computer using P4Es, Intel motherboards, and the correct amout of ram (versus the 128 they sometimes ship with for XP). If you take the compoonents out of a mid-high end system from one of them, put them in a new case and magically make the parts non-proprietary, and you have yourself the same system most people are building themselves. In terms of components failing, the main issue I've seen with the large OEMs is the PSUs after a couple years, but PSUs are always the first things to go out on computers typically. Buy extended warrantys and that fixes the problem. After 5-6 years you'll start to see popped caps on the mobo, but at the point, I would have hoped you have upgraded anyways.

If self building is an option, always go with it as it is much cheaper and typically better quality if you know what youa re doing. If you have to go with someone else's build, get non-proprietary builds. Worst case if you have to save money, go with a large OEM and customize it quite a bit because they initially are designed for what will sell versus what will perform. But if you go with a mid-high end system from Dell and you get at least a 2-3 year warranty, you'll be perfectly happy.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: DrCool

Originally posted by: nick1985
if that board is garbage, then why did a website called anandtech(you may have heard of it) rate the board very highly? also, if it is garbage, why did it work perfectly on both occasions that i used it?

get hit by a buy troll.


**EDIT** (double ownage on this n00b.) Text
"We are extremely pleased to award our Silver Editors Choice to the Chaintech VNF-250 motherboard. As the first in a new Zenith Value Series, we think Chaintech has a great idea - build an overclocker's dream board with all the performance and none of the frills for the lowest possible price. Chaintech also managed to do it without giving up really important features, which is even more commendable. The fact that Chaintech was a top performer in our overclocking tests at a price of less than $100 deserves our award. The VNF-250 proves that you can build a board any enthusiast will want without breaking the bank. Well done, Chaintech." ~anandtech

I'll see that review and I'll raise you this one!

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTUzLDY=

We cannot point a finger at any specific problems that need to be fixed with the ZNF3-150. We can point to an evaluation that was riddled with bad experiences, and a bad experience is the last thing any of us want when putting together a new box. If the ZNF3-150 seems like the board for you and a new Athlon64 CPU, I think I would hold out just a little while longer and make sure and read some more reviews on this product. ~Kyle Bennet (hardocp)

we can do this back and forth, but that's already 1/2 (50%) why take the risk?

well for starters, that is not the same board. you linked to a VNF-150, the board in question is a VNF-250. good try though.

 

[techwanabe]

some potential problems right off the bat:

- Antec LanBoy POS
- Geil Memory POS
- EpoX POS
- Adequate Cooling for your Processor and Case?

I think you are wet behind the ears...

The memory may not be the top shelf Mushkin or "Xtreme" expensive memory, but I seriously doubt it is hindering me in anyway at all. I'm running it at PC2700 spec anyway and just bought if I wanted to the system or use it later at PC3200.

The Antec Lanboy is a bit cramped, and for big time overclockers, it doesn't have the greatest cooling capabilites - but again, I'm not using it in that way. It's a little cramped but I love the light weight having lifted enough computers in the past 4 years. It comes with an Antec Smart 350W power supply, everyone here seems to recommend Antec among the top 5 brands of power supplies. My own experience with Antec has been mixed - I used a bunch of Antec cases to build computers from scratch at work, and they were fine. I tried building a computer based on a new Antec case/PS (non Lanboy) and the PS was bad, wouldn't even fire up the motherboard. Mine is questionable.

Many have recommended the Epox 8RDA+ when it came out as a good motherboard for the money, and I was trying to build a modestly priced, reasonably fast PC in summer 2003. The system in my SIG is what I came up with for the cost, and I reused some components like a hard drive and CD drive.

Dell isn't the ultimate solution, and I'm sure I could build a better PC. But a 19" LCD for $50 sounds nice and if I could work a good deal - I have until late Monday to decide on the current round of deals.

For those who know, are the motherboards in Dells P4E with the 533 Memory on par speed wise with many/most of the crop people are using to build PC's with? I haven't kept up on the Intel compatible motherboards since I moved to the Nforce2 AMD platform last year.

 

[Robor]

techwanabe: Shouldn't there be some good deals on the Dells floating around now? I know a few people who purchased Dells on a hot deal with dual 2001FP's that planned to keep one or two of the 2001FP's and sell the computer. Maybe check out Ebay or the FS/FT forum. If not there's almost always a Dell deal running or coming soon.

Dr Cool: I've got 2 systems running Geil memory. Both are overclocked and run 24/7/365 without any stability issues. I have no regrets with them.

 

[DrCool]

DGath

I don't believe you have the experience to back up your statements..

I've been working on computers for almost 10 years now, and I've worked on hundreds of different systems. ALL OEM's ARE THE SAME!

I've had experience with every single one of them, and any system i build is 100x better.

Many people on this board think that anyone can put together a quality system, but I disagree. There is alot more to system building then just putting the puzzle together. Choosing quality parts that can take a beating 24/7/362 and will last for years. I have some K62 based systems i built over 5 years ago that still run perfectly fine with WINXP, that are used for websurfing / general productivity. I always laugh when i hear people asking if they need a P4 for these basic tasks.. and sadly, when your talking about OEM's, that is exactly the case.. as those systems are DESIGNED to fail after 2 years use. They are NOT designed to last..

OEM warranties are WORTHLESS! You'll have to deal with the NON ENGLISH Speaking monkies to utilize them. If you speak MONKEY, props to you!

also, not sure what horrible fallacy your spreading that says Electronic components have to fail within 5 or 6 years.. yes most electronic devices have an estimated life cycle, but that's not concrete

If you need a new computer, either a) build it yourself, or b) have someone build it for you.. even a crappy mom and pop shop makes better crap then OEM's these days. When I work on other peoples computers, the mom and pop shops product, weather quality or not is ALWAYS 10x better then what the OEM's are offering.

nick1985

I know you really get a hard on for Chaintech.. but my whole point is Chaintech is UNPROVEN, and hasn't CONSISTENTLY produced a quality product, or supported it..

the review i posted shows, they are INCONSISTENT at this point. and both those boards are based on the same platform, the ZNF3-150 is supposed to be their 'coup de gra' of motherboards.. go figure.

techwanabe

your title seems to be extremely fitting.. as you are speaking out of place.

I've worked with that Antec case, and it is one of the worst designed and flimsy POS i've ever had to work on.. Also, Antec doesn't consistently produce quality Power Supplies.. I've worked with them on occasion and have seen good ones and doa / bad ones..

EPoX is also not a PROVEN brand.. they do not CONSISTENTLY produce quality product, just because ONE board got a few good reviews, doesn't mean they CONSISTENTLY produce quality product.

and MEMORY is the root cause of MANY MANY software issues. it is CRUCIAL that you have quality memory. I've used Crucial and Mushkin primarily over the years, and out of 30+ sticks i've purchased through them, i've had 2 fail, both of which were quickly RMA'd for replacements by Crucial.. so that's 30 working sticks out of 30!

 

[techwanabe]

techwanabe

your title seems to be extremely fitting.. as you are speaking out of place.

Thanks for your vote of confidence. I realise that an MCSE cert, Security cert and only 4 years experience doesn't qualify me to be a "true techie". I also know I've got allot to learn ...

I've worked with that Antec case, and it is one of the worst designed and flimsy POS i've ever had to work on.. Also, Antec doesn't consistently produce quality Power Supplies.. I've worked with them on occasion and have seen good ones and doa / bad ones..

I'm happy enough with the case, it was fairly easy to work on and since I have a bad back, I like the light weight. Since the computer doesn't get transported or moved allot, it doesn't bother me that it isn't cast iron sturdy. The power supply is the most important thing - and in my admittedly limited knowledge, I felt it would be a good brand and P/S to go with. As I said, I'm still learning and I'm learning that Antec power supplies are over rated on the quality/liability/reliability end.

EPoX is also not a PROVEN brand.. they do not CONSISTENTLY produce quality product, just because ONE board got a few good reviews, doesn't mean they CONSISTENTLY produce quality product.

I have little experience with Epox - I never claimed iwas proven. I have my limited 4 years experience with some other motherboards to go on, plus comments from other computer users. I've learned my lesson with Epox - and the leaking capacitors etc. No more Epox for me.

and MEMORY is the root cause of MANY MANY software issues. it is CRUCIAL that you have quality memory. I've used Crucial and Mushkin primarily over the years, and out of 30+ sticks i've purchased through them, i've had 2 fail, both of which were quickly RMA'd for replacements by Crucial.. so that's 30 working sticks out of 30!

2 out o 30 sticks fail? I've bought more than that with Kingston and had zero failures. Guess Crucial isn't much better than some others. I'll factor your info into my data base.

Thanks all for the comments and suggestions... all good stuff for a "techwanabe" to consider. BTW, my education and work field is geology (B.S. & M.S. - 14 years experience). Guess I'll always be a tech-wannabe.

 

[wetcat007]

Dun think dell will be anymore reliable than ur rig right now?

 

[techwanabe]

Originally posted by: ScrapSilicon

Originally posted by: techwanabe

Originally posted by: Wingznut
Dimension 8400: 3GHz (800FSB), 1GB DDR2, 160GB, X800SE, 16x DVD+-

All for $1038, with free 2nd day shipping.


From the Hot Deals forum. 🙂

That looks like a pretty sweet machine and a nice big flat screen too.

edit: The link is dead - is this deal off now?

not that I'm aware of..try this link ..remember there is a coupon involved..

Looks like Dell may have "changed the rules" because I can't get a combination that comes up at $1038 ...

I tried it earlier today to see if it would calculate out right, but now it comes up $1158 or something - the price computes a discount before I put the coupon code in. If I do buy, I want to keep it very close to $1000 since I'm tight on money right now. Guess I can sit and wait for another special - that way I don't have to make a decision quickly.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: DrCool
DGath

I don't believe you have the experience to back up your statements..

I've been working on computers for almost 10 years now, and I've worked on hundreds of different systems. ALL OEM's ARE THE SAME!

I've had experience with every single one of them, and any system i build is 100x better.

Many people on this board think that anyone can put together a quality system, but I disagree. There is alot more to system building then just putting the puzzle together. Choosing quality parts that can take a beating 24/7/362 and will last for years. I have some K62 based systems i built over 5 years ago that still run perfectly fine with WINXP, that are used for websurfing / general productivity. I always laugh when i hear people asking if they need a P4 for these basic tasks.. and sadly, when your talking about OEM's, that is exactly the case.. as those systems are DESIGNED to fail after 2 years use. They are NOT designed to last..

OEM warranties are WORTHLESS! You'll have to deal with the NON ENGLISH Speaking monkies to utilize them. If you speak MONKEY, props to you!

also, not sure what horrible fallacy your spreading that says Electronic components have to fail within 5 or 6 years.. yes most electronic devices have an estimated life cycle, but that's not concrete

If you need a new computer, either a) build it yourself, or b) have someone build it for you.. even a crappy mom and pop shop makes better crap then OEM's these days. When I work on other peoples computers, the mom and pop shops product, weather quality or not is ALWAYS 10x better then what the OEM's are offering.

nick1985

I know you really get a hard on for Chaintech.. but my whole point is Chaintech is UNPROVEN, and hasn't CONSISTENTLY produced a quality product, or supported it..

the review i posted shows, they are INCONSISTENT at this point. and both those boards are based on the same platform, the ZNF3-150 is supposed to be their 'coup de gra' of motherboards.. go figure.

techwanabe

your title seems to be extremely fitting.. as you are speaking out of place.

I've worked with that Antec case, and it is one of the worst designed and flimsy POS i've ever had to work on.. Also, Antec doesn't consistently produce quality Power Supplies.. I've worked with them on occasion and have seen good ones and doa / bad ones..

EPoX is also not a PROVEN brand.. they do not CONSISTENTLY produce quality product, just because ONE board got a few good reviews, doesn't mean they CONSISTENTLY produce quality product.

and MEMORY is the root cause of MANY MANY software issues. it is CRUCIAL that you have quality memory. I've used Crucial and Mushkin primarily over the years, and out of 30+ sticks i've purchased through them, i've had 2 fail, both of which were quickly RMA'd for replacements by Crucial.. so that's 30 working sticks out of 30!

Sorry, but I don't think you have the experience to back up your "I know it all" statements because they are laughable. You said "any system i build is 100x better" than any OEM. What do you mean by "100x better"? Value? Performance? Reliability? Doubtful to impossible in all cases. OEM's are designed to be cheap, stable, and reliable because if they aren't they are going to cost the company money in supporting them.

And to say OEM's are "DESIGNED to fail after 2 years use. They are NOT designed to last.." is just stupid. Have you ever actually supported a large network of OEM system to be a good judge? I have. I worked in an Admin job where we used Dell Optiplex desktops and while they were not the fastest systems they were quite reliable. Many of them are 3-4 year old GX-150's that are still running fine today. The worst thing I can say about them is they often develop noisy power supply and/or CPU fans.

And as proof I know what I'm talking about my old Abit BH6/300A @ 450 combo is still running today. Because those parts lasted longer than expected that makes me an expert, right? :roll:

FYI - If you have 30 RAM sticks and 2 of them fail that's 28/30 and almost a 7% failure rate. Do you really consider that something to brag about?

 

[thirdlegstump]

Dells aren't bad and would be even more reliable with SCSI drives although they can fail too, just not as often as most IDE drives.

 

[OMGoddess]

Originally posted by: techwanabe

Didn't read entire thread but why not build your own?

I have been "rolling" my own since summer of 2000. But my folks sent me money because they have heard me mention my woe's with the video card failing 4 times, the memory failing and now the computer just shuts down randomly once in a while. I've had the motherboard sent back and replaced, the video card has been replaced 3 times, going on 4, and the P/S may be to blame for all these past woe's? Not sure. My first computer I built with a Computer show case, ASUS P3V4X, PIII 550E and Micron memory - it worked great for almost 2 years, then I replaced the motherboard/CPU with the ST6 and Tualatin 1.0A @ 1.3ghz for a speed boost in the same case. It has been very reliable too. Last Sept 2003, I built a totally new computer based on the Antec Lanboy, Athlon 2500+Barton, 512 mb DDR, Epox8RD+ and have had the problems I mentioned above.

I'd prefer to build my own, but the folks gave me money to buy a "reliable" system. If I spent the money to build another computer and had issues with it - I'd never hear the end of it. I feel confident with my hardware skills - I've built some 30 computers at my last job and they were all great. I just have had a run of bad luck with the last machine - and tracking down the source(s) of the problem has been a long process and I"m still not sure if the power supply is to blame - 4 video cards, 1 stick of memory in one years time. The mobo was replaced by Epox but they said the only thing wrong with the original was a memory slot was found to be bad.... no capacitor issues as has been raised by others.

The funny thing is my first computer I built in 2000 with ASUS P3V4X/PIII550E, and the upgraded version using the ABIT ST6 and Tualatin 1.0A were both overclocked an ran that way most the time, the former at 733 mhz and the latter at 1.34 ghz. The computer I've had all the problems with has been run at stock speed. I guess thats a good thing because I haven't voided the warranty on the video card, CPU etc... go figure. But I am getting pretty tired of RMAing my video card ever couple months!

WTF did you buy? Or did you just have real chitty luck? I buy crap parts all the time for people, and only had one memory, and DVD drive failure in my history. (ok a blacklight blew out on me).

But seriously.

 

[DrCool]

Originally posted by: Robor
Sorry, but I don't think you have the experience to back up your "I know it all" statements because they are laughable. You said "any system i build is 100x better" than any OEM. What do you mean by "100x better"? Value? Performance? Reliability? Doubtful to impossible in all cases. OEM's are designed to be cheap, stable, and reliable because if they aren't they are going to cost the company money in supporting them.

And to say OEM's are "DESIGNED to fail after 2 years use. They are NOT designed to last.." is just stupid. Have you ever actually supported a large network of OEM system to be a good judge? I have. I worked in an Admin job where we used Dell Optiplex desktops and while they were not the fastest systems they were quite reliable. Many of them are 3-4 year old GX-150's that are still running fine today. The worst thing I can say about them is they often develop noisy power supply and/or CPU fans.

And as proof I know what I'm talking about my old Abit BH6/300A @ 450 combo is still running today. Because those parts lasted longer than expected that makes me an expert, right? :roll:

FYI - If you have 30 RAM sticks and 2 of them fail that's 28/30 and almost a 7% failure rate. Do you really consider that something to brag about?

I'll concede to making a fairly arrogant statement, but I stand by the point I was making..

Yes, OEM systems ARE only designed to last for 2 years. (do some market research and get back to me) A Dell Optiplex is not a end-user system, it's a workstation. Believe the topic of discussion is end-user systems. I'm not saying the OEMs aren't CAPABLE of building QUALITY systems (as Dell has in the past) they CHOSE not to, as they make more money, on people buying new crap every 2 years.

Yes, I have supported many large networks, and Dells have the same failure rate today, as all other OEMS.

Reading comprehension may not be your strong point, so I'll try and dumb down my writing..

Out of 30 Sticks of memory purchased from Crucial over the last 5 years, i've had 2 fail. Crucial being a Quality Company, and one that supports their product, REPLACED both sticks within 1 week of failing. So that means I currently have 30 excellent working sticks OUT OF 30... 30/30 = 100% understand?

 

[DGath]

Originally posted by: DrCool
DGath

I don't believe you have the experience to back up your statements..

I've been working on computers for almost 10 years now, and I've worked on hundreds of different systems. ALL OEM's ARE THE SAME!

I've had experience with every single one of them, and any system i build is 100x better.

Many people on this board think that anyone can put together a quality system, but I disagree. There is alot more to system building then just putting the puzzle together. Choosing quality parts that can take a beating 24/7/362 and will last for years. I have some K62 based systems i built over 5 years ago that still run perfectly fine with WINXP, that are used for websurfing / general productivity. I always laugh when i hear people asking if they need a P4 for these basic tasks.. and sadly, when your talking about OEM's, that is exactly the case.. as those systems are DESIGNED to fail after 2 years use. They are NOT designed to last..

OEM warranties are WORTHLESS! You'll have to deal with the NON ENGLISH Speaking monkies to utilize them. If you speak MONKEY, props to you!

also, not sure what horrible fallacy your spreading that says Electronic components have to fail within 5 or 6 years.. yes most electronic devices have an estimated life cycle, but that's not concrete

If you need a new computer, either a) build it yourself, or b) have someone build it for you.. even a crappy mom and pop shop makes better crap then OEM's these days. When I work on other peoples computers, the mom and pop shops product, weather quality or not is ALWAYS 10x better then what the OEM's are offering.

I think you need to start looking at your own credentials before blasting everyone elses. For the most part, this entire board is in disagreement with your statements. You do not need the latest Prescott, complete with a gig of matched pair Mushkin performance memory with the latest Asus motherboard with an Antec PSU to have a good system. To be honest, put in value ram, your standard 865 board and a generic PSU and you will not notice the difference in 99% of your computers functions. If you overclock, you don't want to skip out on anything, if you invest $500 in the latest video card, you do not want to skip on anything, if you water cool your system, you do not want to skip on anything, but for every other person out there, they don't need the cream of the crop parts to have a great computer. If I put two computer in front of you, one with the most expensive matched pair ram out there, and the other with value ram, you won't be able to tell me the difference with normal application use without pulling out benchmarks.

Bottom line is your definition of a good computer is way too picky. As far as the large OEMs go (anyone who commercially builds computers is an OEM BTW, not just Dell/HP/Gateway/IBM, those "mom and pop" shops are OEMs for the most part), they can build you some of the best computers out there, you are just going to overpay like crazy. For the most part, all components are the same. Dell uses the exact same Intel processors we all buy, Intel motherboards which are the most stable (though not best performing, but good though) generic memory that is pretty much the same as all the non-performance memory out there, 8 meg cache drives on their mid-high systems. Look at the big picture and you can't possibly tell me that Dells are peices of crap if you buy a decent system from them.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: DrCool

Originally posted by: Robor
Sorry, but I don't think you have the experience to back up your "I know it all" statements because they are laughable. You said "any system i build is 100x better" than any OEM. What do you mean by "100x better"? Value? Performance? Reliability? Doubtful to impossible in all cases. OEM's are designed to be cheap, stable, and reliable because if they aren't they are going to cost the company money in supporting them.

And to say OEM's are "DESIGNED to fail after 2 years use. They are NOT designed to last.." is just stupid. Have you ever actually supported a large network of OEM system to be a good judge? I have. I worked in an Admin job where we used Dell Optiplex desktops and while they were not the fastest systems they were quite reliable. Many of them are 3-4 year old GX-150's that are still running fine today. The worst thing I can say about them is they often develop noisy power supply and/or CPU fans.

And as proof I know what I'm talking about my old Abit BH6/300A @ 450 combo is still running today. Because those parts lasted longer than expected that makes me an expert, right? :roll:

FYI - If you have 30 RAM sticks and 2 of them fail that's 28/30 and almost a 7% failure rate. Do you really consider that something to brag about?

I'll conside to making a fairly arrogant statement, but I stand by the point I was making..

Yes, OEM systems ARE only designed to last for 2 years. (do some market research and get back to me) A Dell Optiplex is not a end-user system, it's a workstation. Believe the topic of discussion is end-user systems. I'm not saying the OEMs aren't CAPABLE of building QUALITY systems (as Dell has in the past) they CHOOSE not to, as they make more money, on people buying new crap every 2 years.

Yes, I have supported many large networks, and Dells have the same failure rate today, as all other OEMS.

Reading comprehension may not be your strong point, so I'll try and dumb down my writing..

Out of 30 Sticks of memory purchased from Crucial over the last 5 years, i've had 2 fail. Crucial being a Quality Company, and one that supports their product, REPLACED both sticks within 1 week of failing. So that means I currently have 30 excellent working sticks OUT OF 30... 30/30 = 100% understand?

An Optiplex is a workstation? Ha! You don't have a clue, do you? The Dell Optiplex is a simple and small desktop system designed for general use (Office apps, Email, etc), not a workstation designed for power users. It's pretty obvious you've never supported one because if you had you'd know that.

And apparently math and logic are not your strong point so I'll try and simplify it. If you have 30 sticks of memory and 2 of them fail it's 28 divided by 30 for a 93.33% good rate and 6.67% bad rate. It doesn't matter if they were quickly replaced or not, they still failed. Do *YOU* understand that?

Now quit posting in this thread before you dig the hole any deeper. At this point you're only throwing dirt on yourself...

 

[Wingznut]

DrCool, all I've seen you do in this thread is bash others' suggestions... So, how about making your own?

Lay out a superior system to the Dell I suggested, for less money. Don't forget to include WinXP, monitor, kb/mouse, etc.

(I won't even ask for it to be "100x" better. 😉 )

 

[Gurck]

A builder considering Dell? That's a first 😛 I'll just make the obligatory "are you nuckin' futs?" comment and move along 😀

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: DrCool

Originally posted by: nick1985
if that board is garbage, then why did a website called anandtech(you may have heard of it) rate the board very highly? also, if it is garbage, why did it work perfectly on both occasions that i used it?

get hit by a buy troll.


**EDIT** (double ownage on this n00b.) Text
"We are extremely pleased to award our Silver Editors Choice to the Chaintech VNF-250 motherboard. As the first in a new Zenith Value Series, we think Chaintech has a great idea - build an overclocker's dream board with all the performance and none of the frills for the lowest possible price. Chaintech also managed to do it without giving up really important features, which is even more commendable. The fact that Chaintech was a top performer in our overclocking tests at a price of less than $100 deserves our award. The VNF-250 proves that you can build a board any enthusiast will want without breaking the bank. Well done, Chaintech." ~anandtech

I'll see that review and I'll raise you this one!

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTUzLDY=

We cannot point a finger at any specific problems that need to be fixed with the ZNF3-150. We can point to an evaluation that was riddled with bad experiences, and a bad experience is the last thing any of us want when putting together a new box. If the ZNF3-150 seems like the board for you and a new Athlon64 CPU, I think I would hold out just a little while longer and make sure and read some more reviews on this product. ~Kyle Bennet (hardocp)

we can do this back and forth, but that's already 1/2 (50%) why take the risk?

well for starters, that is not the same board. you linked to a VNF-150, the board in question is a VNF-250. good try though.

<<awaits DrCool's response...>>

 

[DrCool]

Originally posted by: Robor
An Optiplex is a workstation? Ha! You don't have a clue, do you? The Dell Optiplex is a simple and small desktop system designed for general use (Office apps, Email, etc), not a workstation designed for power users. It's pretty obvious you've never supported one because if you had you'd know that.

And apparently math and logic are not your strong point so I'll try and simplify it. If you have 30 sticks of memory and 2 of them fail it's 28 divided by 30 for a 93.33% good rate and 6.67% bad rate. It doesn't matter if they were quickly replaced or not, they still failed. Do *YOU* understand that?

Now quit posting in this thread before you dig the hole any deeper. At this point you're only throwing dirt on yourself...

you really are dense.. a workstation is just that, lets brake down the word:

work - the labor, task, or duty that is one's accustomed means of livelihood
station - equipment used usually by one person for performing a particular job

if you go to Dells website, the Optiplex series is listed under small business systems:
http://www1.us.dell.com/conten...n&amp;s=bsd&amp;~ck=mn

so, a Dell Optiplex computer, is a WORKSTATION

and it DOES matter if they are replaced.. as that would mean, they didn't become useless.. CRUCIAL will stand behind their product, can't be said of all companies

DGath

I've never said you had to spend ALOT to get quality components, just utilize companies that are QUALITY and back their products.

Wingznut

I can't stand by idlely while ignorance is propagated.

 

[techwanabe]

Originally posted by: Gurck
A builder considering Dell? That's a first 😛 I'll just make the obligatory "are you nuckin' futs?" comment and move along 😀

LOL!!! I'm just watching the debri's flying over head!

I've gotten a bit tired of sending components back - but I'm willing to consider a homebuilt system comperable to the Dell system I've been looking at for $1038 (that is my limit):

Dimension 8400
Pentium® 4 Processor 530 with HT Technology (3GHz, 800 FSB)
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
1Yr Ltd Warranty, 1Yr At-Home Service, and 1Yr Technical Support
1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz (2x512M)
160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/dbl layer write capability
FREE UPGRADE! 19 in E193FP Flat Panel Display
128MB PCI Express? x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon? X800 SE