New receiver doesn't sound right. Am I doing something wrong?

[dpodblood]

I just upgraded from a 20 year old Pioneer receiver to a new Pioneer VSX-823-K. I took it out of the box hooked it all up and calibrated it using the auto-calibration and included mic. I then proceeded to test it with some music and action moves. Either my expectations are off, or something is set up incorrectly.

The sounds is very lacking in bass compared to my old receiver. Overall while sound is detailed, it sounds very lifeless and flat. It also seems to be very lacking in power. I played some scenes from the dark knight at 60/80 volume. On my old receiver the walls would have being knocked down at less than half volume. With the new receiver it didn't seem to be very loud at all given the volume setting, and again the sound seemed lifeless. Explosions were boomy, but there was no "crunch" to the sound.

So at this point I'm not sure if I've done something wrong or if my expectations for this receiver are completely out of whack. Please let me know what you guys think.

My sound setup is a set of energy pro 22's for front LR speakers, mismatched center and surround channels, and a polk 10" sub. I am using PS3 as my Blu-ray player.

 

[Accord99]

What volume are you playing on the Pioneer 823? With auto-calibration enabled, the receiver adjusts each speaker level so that at a volume setting of 0 dB, dialogue should be at ~75 dB at your listening positioning from all speakers with peaks up to 105 dB. The auto-calibration software may run the sub-woofer less hot than you would like, but you can adjust to your liking.

Generally, people watch movies at volume settings of -10 dB to -20 dB. Higher than that typically gets painfully loud in a normal sized living room.

 

[dpodblood]

What volume are you playing on the Pioneer 823? With auto-calibration enabled, the receiver adjusts each speaker level so that at a volume setting of 0 dB, dialogue should be at ~75 dB at your listening positioning from all speakers with peaks up to 105 dB. The auto-calibration software may run the sub-woofer less hot than you would like, but you can adjust to your liking.

Generally, people watch movies at volume settings of -10 dB to -20 dB. Higher than that typically gets painfully loud in a normal sized living room.

The volume doesn't work like that on the pioneer receivers. I know from experience with Yamaha receivers that other receivers do work that way, but the pioneer just operates on a scale from 0-80. I did try turning off the EQ just to see if the auto calibration was messed up, and while it did sound different I wouldn't say it sounded any better.

 

[Accord99]

Sorry, I have a higher-end Pioneer that uses the relative method and assumed the whole line used it.

I guess other possible things to look at, since you're coming from a very old receiver, is that for movies that the receiver is getting the best possible audio source from the player (i.e. DTS-HD Master Audio for blu-rays) and disable any Advanced surround DSP effects.

I would also get a sound level meter or a smartphone app and figure out which volume value corresponds to 0 dB on the relative method.

 

[dpodblood]

Sorry, I have a higher-end Pioneer that uses the relative method and assumed the whole line used it.

I guess other possible things to look at, since you're coming from a very old receiver, is that for movies that the receiver is getting the best possible audio source from the player (i.e. DTS-HD Master Audio for blu-rays) and disable any Advanced surround DSP effects.

I would also get a sound level meter or a smartphone app and figure out which volume value corresponds to 0 dB on the relative method.

Which Pioneer do you have. If I'm not happy with this one I may return it and save up for an Elite version. Presumably they are a step up in both quality and power.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

I have a ten year old Pioneer Elite AVR and I can say the volume expectation is as Accord99 describes. Also, I have a three year old Pioneer non-Elite (1014 or 1024, cannot remember and too lazy to go look) and I think it does the same as the Elite.

Anyway, it seems almost impossible to get a repeat situation when changing out a source, processor and or amplification component in the audio chain. I remember when I retired the Elite in my HT and put in a newer Denon the sound changed, but not enough for me to go back to the Elite, which had no digital video handling.

Now maybe it isn't the AVR, but the way the AVR is configured. There are usually sound profiles that let you change the way certain audio types are being handled, and also certain sources. I know an old Yamaha had a lot of these features as I kept hitting the wrong button on the remote and it would change something and flat went the audio. Very frustrating.

 

[dpodblood]

I have a ten year old Pioneer Elite AVR and I can say the volume expectation is as Accord99 describes. Also, I have a three year old Pioneer non-Elite (1014 or 1024, cannot remember and too lazy to go look) and I think it does the same as the Elite.

Anyway, it seems almost impossible to get a repeat situation when changing out a source, processor and or amplification component in the audio chain. I remember when I retired the Elite in my HT and put in a newer Denon the sound changed, but not enough for me to go back to the Elite, which had no digital video handling.

Now maybe it isn't the AVR, but the way the AVR is configured. There are usually sound profiles that let you change the way certain audio types are being handled, and also certain sources. I know an old Yamaha had a lot of these features as I kept hitting the wrong button on the remote and it would change something and flat went the audio. Very frustrating.

Yeah. My dad is much more experienced in AV gear and is going to try and give me a hand with it tomorrow. I am really hoping it's just the setup and not the receiver itself. If it is the receiver unfortunately I think I will end up just returning it and saving up for something better.

 

[alcoholbob]

I believe the Pioneer receivers for a while now in the 5xx-k to 10xx-k series all use the same amps, you have to move to to the 11xx-k or above series to get better amplification.

Anyway that receiver IIRC does something like 40Wx7 or something, it's pretty much entry level amp for a small room.

 

[007ELmO]

Can he possibly run with both receivers for now, using his new receiver as a pre processor and his old one as the amplifier?

 

[dpodblood]

I resolved the issue with the receiver, by buying a Yamaha to replace it. Sound out of the box is far better, and calibrating it makes it even better yet.

 

[007ELmO]

Interesting solution mate! Glad you're happy.

 

[Raduque]

I resolved the issue with the receiver, by buying a Yamaha to replace it. Sound out of the box is far better, and calibrating it makes it even better yet.

I did the same thing. Bought an open-box Pioneer VSX-"823k" which turned out to be a 523k. Didn't know it (despite checking the contents before paying) because whoever returned it went through some lengths to hide it, including burning off the silk-screened model number on the front and fabricating a new sticker for the back. Wrapped it up like a Christmas present in that anti-static foam paper bag they come with. I only figured it out because I used my TV remote by accident and the "AnyNet+" display said it was a 523k.

Anyway, after calibration and setup, and making the LFE hotter, it sounded terrible to my ears. Harsh and "bright" (too much treble). I returned it and bought a Yamaha RX-V375. Amazing sound quality after calibration.

 

[007ELmO]

wow what a bastard!

why did you two prefer yamaha over Onkyo? I need a 7 HDMI input receiver for my gaming setup. I'm looking at the Onkoyo 717, it's one model older hence cheaper ($500).

Thanks!

 

[dpodblood]

For me I picked up the Yahama because it was on sale and I have heard good reviews. I couldn't find a comparable Onkyo in the same price range. I also considered Harmon Cardon, but the best buy I went to didn't have any in stock.

Any way I did a bunch of testing with the Yahmaha today, calibrated it properly, and watched Star Trek - Into Darkness. Needless to say I am very happy with my purchase. This receiver has so much more punch than the pioneer. Not to mention the dynamic range and imaging is much better as well. The UI and remote are even better, so I'm glad I did the swap.

 

[007ELmO]

the HKs I've owned in the past are also bright. It's not a bad thing, you just have to pair them with the correct speakers.

I just bought an Onkyo 717 off amazon, it's one model behind but also saves me $300, xD. 7 HDMI inputs, we will see if it works well for my gaming setup. The amplifier has bi-amp capability and I'll be using a 2.2 setup, so it should sound nice I hope.

 

[Koing]

the HKs I've owned in the past are also bright. It's not a bad thing, you just have to pair them with the correct speakers.

I just bought an Onkyo 717 off amazon, it's one model behind but also saves me $300, xD. 7 HDMI inputs, we will see if it works well for my gaming setup. The amplifier has bi-amp capability and I'll be using a 2.2 setup, so it should sound nice I hope.

Hopefully you don't have the hdmi board or capacitors blow on you like my 606

I'd try and rig up a fan in the system to help cool it down. It's a well known problem with Onkyo stuff, not 100% sure it affects the 717.

I'm looking for a second hand receiver now

Koing

 

[Tweak155]

Hopefully you don't have the hdmi board or capacitors blow on you like my 606

I'd try and rig up a fan in the system to help cool it down. It's a well known problem with Onkyo stuff, not 100% sure it affects the 717.

I'm looking for a second hand receiver now

Koing

I just got a deal on an Onkyo 626 with 6 HDMI inputs... I heard the inputs go out one at a time, but the fix to it is simple if you can follow internet instructions.

For $280 though, the features are awesome... BT, Network streaming, 6 HDMI in, some people said upconversion works but it isn't listed as a feature, I've yet to test it.

I only need it for 2-3 HDMI devices so I'm hoping as they go down (if they go down), I can just swap to a new one lol.

 

[Kaido]

I resolved the issue with the receiver, by buying a Yamaha to replace it. Sound out of the box is far better, and calibrating it makes it even better yet.

Ah, bummer - I have a Pioneer I was testing for my basement home theater & I have the exact same problem as you - sure it's detailed, but I can't get it to "punch" at all. It's fairly lifeless compared to my other equipment, even after playing with the settings, calibration, and different speakers. Very strange. My Lepai TA2020 sounds better haha!

 

[Koing]

I just got a deal on an Onkyo 626 with 6 HDMI inputs... I heard the inputs go out one at a time, but the fix to it is simple if you can follow internet instructions.

For $280 though, the features are awesome... BT, Network streaming, 6 HDMI in, some people said upconversion works but it isn't listed as a feature, I've yet to test it.

I only need it for 2-3 HDMI devices so I'm hoping as they go down (if they go down), I can just swap to a new one lol.

Don't get me wrong the 606 was working great then I found out it was taking ages to switch HDMI inputs and eventually it doesn't switch at all.

Hmmmm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj0x5S9ez5U

I thought it was like £80 in parts and stuff to fix it? But I think that was how much it would cost to get someone else to do it. I think I'll order the parts and have a go at fixing it myself. My dad has a soldering gun.

Parts ordered:
http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/capacitor-100uf-25v-ev

Using the above youtube video and this post to help guide me out
http://www.speaktothegeek.co.uk/oliblog/2012/01/01/how-to-fix-an-onkyo-tx-sr606/

Koing

 

[cmdrdredd]

the HKs I've owned in the past are also bright. It's not a bad thing, you just have to pair them with the correct speakers.

I just bought an Onkyo 717 off amazon, it's one model behind but also saves me $300, xD. 7 HDMI inputs, we will see if it works well for my gaming setup. The amplifier has bi-amp capability and I'll be using a 2.2 setup, so it should sound nice I hope.

I almost bought the Onkyo TX-NR717 but opted for the Sony STR-DN1040 because it had apple airplay, wifi, and bluetooth standard which I wanted. Plus I read a lot of reports of Onkyo HDMI issues and nobody could tell me definitively if it was fixed or not.

The Sony got some nice reviews too which helped my decision a bit.

 

[Tweak155]

I almost bought the Onkyo TX-NR717 but opted for the Sony STR-DN1040 because it had apple airplay, wifi, and bluetooth standard which I wanted. Plus I read a lot of reports of Onkyo HDMI issues and nobody could tell me definitively if it was fixed or not.

The Sony got some nice reviews too which helped my decision a bit.

My first receiver was a Sony. Lasted until the remote quit working and I toe kicked in the power button lol.

 

[Raduque]

wow what a bastard!

why did you two prefer yamaha over Onkyo? I need a 7 HDMI input receiver for my gaming setup. I'm looking at the Onkoyo 717, it's one model older hence cheaper ($500).

Thanks!

I picked the Yamaha because it was on sale for $219. Nothing else in that price range had the features I wanted (mainly, OSD, calibration and 4 HDMI).

 

[Koing]

Don't get me wrong the 606 was working great then I found out it was taking ages to switch HDMI inputs and eventually it doesn't switch at all.

Hmmmm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj0x5S9ez5U

I thought it was like £80 in parts and stuff to fix it? But I think that was how much it would cost to get someone else to do it. I think I'll order the parts and have a go at fixing it myself. My dad has a soldering gun.

Parts ordered:
http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/capacitor-100uf-25v-ev

Using the above youtube video and this post to help guide me out
http://www.speaktothegeek.co.uk/oliblog/2012/01/01/how-to-fix-an-onkyo-tx-sr606/

Koing

Hmmmmm...turns out it isn't so simple for my fix...

Three capacitors are blown. I'm guessing they are as the white insides are out of the capacitors and on the circuit boards.

I'll take more pics tomorrow and upload and see if you guys can help in indentifying which capacitors to buy.

I already have taken out the 5x 100uF 25v that are on the hdmi board.

I fear this will be a wasted exercise though but it'll only have cost e £5 tops if that. I got 10x 100uF 25V capacitors with delivery for £3.

Koing

 

[tential]

I almost bought the Onkyo TX-NR717 but opted for the Sony STR-DN1040 because it had apple airplay, wifi, and bluetooth standard which I wanted. Plus I read a lot of reports of Onkyo HDMI issues and nobody could tell me definitively if it was fixed or not.

The Sony got some nice reviews too which helped my decision a bit.

The HDMI issue is on EVERY single Onkyo. No matter what someone will complain about it. Most likely, it's due to improper airflow. Hot air gets trapped near the fan vent and fries the HDMI board slowly. I never had an issue with it on both my Onkyo Receivers. My friend did, and he kept his receiver in a cabinet with little to no airflow.

Sadly, I do something similar now, but I also use an external amplifier instead so it cuts down a lot on the workload my receiver does. I need to open the back of my cabinet out more to allow airflow though. The TX-NR717 was a dud of a receiver anyway. You were better off with the TX-NR709(Both were out when I purchased my TX-NR709). The 717 model was newer, but they removed features from it. It had weaker Audyssey for example that isn't as good at the 709's.

Edit: My recommendation to people is to buy the cheapest model you can that has the level of Audyssey you want (If you plan to use it. I did plan to, and NEVER did. I don't like the auto calibrated sound level, I prefer more bass I guess and I just like to tweak sound to how I like it) and to get something with PreOuts. The higher end models for a receiver give you more channels (11.1 anyone?) and more HDMI slots and sometimes a slightly higher level of Audyssey and a better amplification system. Most times people have 0 intention of getting an 11.1 system (or even 7.1), no intention of plugging in 7 different devices, and probably don't need a higher level of Audyssey. Better off spending that extra cash on External Proamplifiers which are cheap and add a lot of additional power to your system. That is of course if you're chasing high SPL levels and a high quality setup on the cheap.

 

[Midwayman]

I know some of the onkyo tx-nr7xx series had a problem with the 40 pin cables baking inside of them. Apparently they used too cheap of a ide cable. Apparently its not a hard fix if you pop it open. I picked up one of the refurbs with the better cable already installed.