And let me remind you that the fasetst processor avaliable at the time over here at build was 1.8GHZ williamette, and northwoods didn't exist!
Cerb
Elite Member
- Aug 26, 2000
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I agree there are (Ice9, even you can't deny that many of them exist), but while I don't like the cost of RDRAM nor lawsuits nor companies losing their asses on DDR, I wouldn't mind seeing more options. I actually do find it a bit strange that the Hammer is going only 333MHz DDR...seems like for such a new monster it would be quite telling to have other memory technologies worked in, if just to see how each one performs in comparison.
Aren't a very expensive hobby? Just how much do you make! I don't know if there is a more expnsive hobby! (Significant others don't count.)
Saying that you go with RDRAM now because you think it'll win in the long term makes no sense to me. I seriously doubt you will be using the same PC 800/1066 modules in upgrading to your next machine, so I don't see how it will matter for the future.
Anyway, a cursory skim doesn't show me as many rambus detractors as you say, or as I'd like to see, so I'm just here to even things up. I for one would like to see rambus die, and the continued evolution of DDR2/QDR... And if rambus does have a superior memory architecture, I'd like some solid proof they can get over the serious yeild and cost issues thats always plagued it... Until then, I'll stick to my DDR at 1/3 the cost and similiar performance, and you can brag about the 75% bench perfs all you want...
You're just proving my point. Add up the cost of the 845x system vs the 850 system. Then prove to me you can tell the difference running most apps. Then tell me if its worth the extra 150-250 dollars.
You have no reason to want Rambus to die.
If you think you do, they are wrong assumptions based on the media smear that's been going on for the past three years. And none of it has been true.
You can stick to DDR if you like, you're still supporting Rambus as a company with your 3% royalty payment that Rambus ultimately gets. In the meantime, you can sit in the bleachers with the rest of the DDR cheerleaders while Team DDR goes bankrupt
Originally posted by: Ice9
You have no reason to want Rambus to die.
If you think you do, they are wrong assumptions based on the media smear that's been going on for the past three years. And none of it has been true.
You can stick to DDR if you like, you're still supporting Rambus as a company with your 3% royalty payment that Rambus ultimately gets. In the meantime, you can sit in the bleachers with the rest of the DDR cheerleaders while Team DDR goes bankrupt
Media smear? Does the media influence judicial decisions?
And I've responded to your comments, perhaps you can afford me the same courtesy.
by the way, I'm open to your perspective, if you can just show me a few linkies to prove it. Until then, I will want rambus to die, and stick by my accusation that proponents are either rich spoiled fanboys with no concept of real world performance or price vs performance, or they are newbies who've been told whats best without and decided to defend a sinking ship, or they are in fact, rambus employees.
Of course, I'm sure, in all seriousness, a small percentage of those who use it actually work with certain applications that take advantage of the memory scores, though I doubt many of them frequent this forum...
Of course, I'm sure, in all seriousness, a small percentage of those who use it actually work with certain applications that take advantage of the memory scores, though I doubt many of them frequent this forum...
ALL the time. So far, the only thing the courts have decided is:
Rambus is the holder of the original 1990 patent covering SDRAM and conversely DDR, and has the right to go after whoever they want.
Rambus is not guilty of fraud because JEDEC rules governing patent disclosure were not clear, possibly intentionally.
This is all the courts have decided so far with regards to Rambus. The initial ruling of "Fraud" was overturned because of grievous errors Judge Payne made during the original trial.
I think what a lot of people don't understand is how patents work in the US with regards to "amending patent claims". A lot of people wrongly think that you can add technical information about a patent after the fact, and that's how Rambus "stole" patent information from JEDEC.
This is simply not true.
Here's the best way I can explain it. Let's say you invented "Tums". You file a patent stating the combination of ingredients as the technical patent info, with a "patent claim" that states it's "For the temporary relief of acid indigestion".
Now, during some kind of seminar, you find out that your invention is also being used as a calcium supplement to help prevent Osteoporosis. You can now "Amend" your "Patent Claims" to include "for use as a calcium supplement for the prevention of Osteoporosis". YOU CANNOT CHANGE THE ORIGINAL PATENT DESCRIPTION THAT GOVERN THE FORMULA USED. YOU CAN ONLY ADD NEW CLAIMS. In order to do this, you MUST file for a new independent patent.
The only patent that's "in dispute" has been Rambus' original 1990 patent filing. There is NO WAY they could have "stolen" patent information from JEDEC. This is why Infineon had to SUPPRESS the fact that this patent existed by having Judge Payne overturn their own markman ruling.
NO judge that is fair and honest is going to let Rambus lose.
Originally posted by: busmaster11
by the way, I'm open to your perspective, if you can just show me a few linkies to prove it. Until then, I will want rambus to die, and stick by my accusation that proponents are either rich spoiled fanboys with no concept of real world performance or price vs performance, or they are newbies who've been told whats best without and decided to defend a sinking ship, or they are in fact, rambus employees.
Of course, I'm sure, in all seriousness, a small percentage of those who use it actually work with certain applications that take advantage of the memory scores, though I doubt many of them frequent this forum...
What exactly would you have me prove that hasn't already been ultimately upheld in court?
The media smear is *OBVIOUS!* The reason it's so easy to smear Rambus as a company is because the average schlep doesn't understand patent law. If you understand *ANYTHING* about patent law, then you know that there's no way for Rambus to do what the media has claimed.
That you insist on being in the corner of a company which has been ruled against multiple times as far as SDRAM royalties ar concerned, doesn't bode well for your credibility. No, if you are trying to prove that the media dictates rulings in this case, you need to provide some evidence. Good luck.
Payne isn't the only judge to rule against rambust, as SteelyKen's link shows.
LOL... Have you been reading or writing some of the rambust propaganda? It's not about who had the original patent. No one doubts that rambus had it prior to joining JEDEC, but they didn't disclose the information, left JEDEC, allowed new technologies to be standarized and then try to pull the rug out from under everyone else with royalties. If you are going to join JEDEC, you need to disclose your relevant patents. Sidestepping that is at wrose illegal, and at best, very dishonest. Methods such as those may be used routinely in today's business world, but it is still dishonest, and IMO, deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible.
So please, show me links, and show me exactly what "grevious errors" Judge Payne made.
If you mean the now-retired Judge Timony who had to clear his bench before retiring, see the following link.
That was not a "ruling". That was an issuance of "adverse presumptions", which means that the burden of proving innocence falls on Rambus. Read the link above. Rambus will have NO problem squashing each and every one of those lies.
There's no way this case should go forward unless you are a completely crooked judge with ulterior motives. Timony completely DISREGARDED every legal precedent that's been set with regards to this case as the motion above shows.
Which the CAFC, a FEDERAL court, says isn't against the law. Unethical, maybe. Illegal, no. Ain't business a bitch.
And of course there are doubts! Judge Payne THREW OUT THE MARKMAN RULING that DEFINES the very patent in question! Of COURSE Rambus had to lose that case. The only evidence they HAD was taken away from them.
Then we need to go after IBM as well, since they flat out *REFUSED* to reveal their patents to JEDEC. Rambus actually revealed more than they had to, which is clear from the CAFC's ruling.
And infineon was JUST as guilty of doing the same. From the below linked document:
"For example, the record contains a tracking list showing only five disclosed applications and sixty disclosed patents from a committee membership of over fifty companies. Those companies include many leading manufacturers heavily involved in memory technology, such as IBM, Toshiba, Intel, AMD, Samsung, Siemens, Hyundai, Micron, Sun Microsystems, Hewlett-Packard, Hitachi, Motorola, LG Semicon, and Fujitsu. If these members perceived the duty to encompass any patent or application with a vague relationship to the JEDEC standard, the record would likely contain a substantially greater number of disclosed patents and applications. Even Infineon?s own actions demonstrate that the disclosure duty was not so broad because Infineon itself did not disclose to JEDEC an application on testing SDRAM. "
Certainly. Read the full CAFC decision here, written by the 3 judges that made up the CAFC panel in this case. Note that the 2 judges in favor of the 100% reversal of judge payne's ruling have been with the CAFC for 20 years or more. The one dissenting judge? There barely a year. Guess he's still a little green when it comes to patent law
There's a HUGE difference between a district court and a federal court. Just like there will be a huge difference between an FTC trial and a federal appeal (which amazingly enough, will go right back to the CAFC who already ruled in Rambus' favor). Rambus ultimately cannot lose long term. Every legal precedent is IN THEIR FAVOR.
Everything that's happening now is just buying time, which Rambus has plenty of. They have a solid revenue stream from the PS2 (and next year the PS3 royalties start coming in), unlike the 3 DDR companies trying to put the screws to them.
The i845D was a *special case* as it's memory technology was later implemented in dual channel memory controllers. If I wasn't desperate for RAM, i'd carry my PC800 over to an i850E rig. But my aspiration for 1GB of RAM has sort of made this unfeasable.
Also i850 had a significant margin over DDR266. I think at that point it would have been cheaper to upgrade to the i850 platform over the i845X platforms for extra performance, vs CPU upgrades. Remember, this was pre northwood! And I paid 200$ for my 1.7GHZ wiliamette, at the time. Pay an extra 200$ for a 1.9GHZ processor.. or an extra 70$ to move over to the RAMBUS platform? In the U.S. the choice was obvious. In China, not so obvious. But still apparent.
Plus at the time DDR was a dead end. I had no idea at the time that dual channel DDR266/333/400 controllers were ever going to be implmeneted, because at the time the i850 was still healthy and Intel was still in close partenership with RAMBUS.
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