New racist threats at GM plant where nooses found

[Zorba]

A little off topic, but when did a hangmen's noose become a symbol for racism?

Around the time this picture was taken:

 

[Zorba]

It may not always be, but it often is. I won't try to pull out a percentage , though I'd suspect it's pretty high.

I teach firefighting classes to a variety of audiences, but frequently to high school Vo Tech programs. One of the first lessons is ropes and knots. Unfortunately, because it's happened before in other programs we warn the kids that anyone caught making anything close will be immediately referred for discipline. (Usually very poorly thought out joking or boredom, that can end in very serious consequences)

Because A it can be, and often is racially motivated, and B has absolutely no legitimate reason to be in class.

I don't care if you're intending to be racist by it or not, if you're dumb enough to do something like that, I want you flushed before you embarrass any of the rest of us. Similarly, anyone dumb enough to do this in a work place needs to be shown the door regardless of intent. They're a shit show waiting to happen.

I don't claim to definitely know what's in another's heart or head (or lack thereof), but actions like these can only come from so many motivations, none of which is acceptable.

That seems a little harsh. I doubt that many high schoolers nowadays have any idea it is racially charged. Although, it is basically having a weapon at school, so in that regard it should carry some punishment.

I agree with you about anyone doing this for any reason in a workplace is a moron though. Even if it isn't racial, it is definitely a threat. And I think most adults using it as a threat are likely doing it for racial reasons.

 

[Victorian Gray]

That seems a little harsh. I doubt that many high schoolers nowadays have any idea it is racially charged. Although, it is basically having a weapon at school, so in that regard it should carry some punishment.

I agree with you about anyone doing this for any reason in a workplace is a moron though. Even if it isn't racial, it is definitely a threat. And I think most adults using it as a threat are likely doing it for racial reasons.

They no longer teach American history in American schools?

 

[cytg111]

That seems a little harsh. I doubt that many high schoolers nowadays have any idea it is racially charged. Although, it is basically having a weapon at school, so in that regard it should carry some punishment.

I agree with you about anyone doing this for any reason in a workplace is a moron though. Even if it isn't racial, it is definitely a threat. And I think most adults using it as a threat are likely doing it for racial reasons.

Its an grey area imo, it fits in that category that those who do not learn from history, or forgets it, are doomed to repeat it. We may be ripe for another WW soon.
On one hand if such symbolism fades into the void it could very well mean that have healed from that particular dark spot in our history, on the other hand those arguing its already gone too soon is pulling it back from the void cause stupid.
Too many variables. Cant think.

 

[UglyCasanova]

I doubt that many high schoolers nowadays have any idea it is racially charged.

I bet they do. They wouldn’t be making a noose for no reason at all. And the racial nature of it is prevelant enough in society that they’d be aware.

 

[Zorba]

They no longer teach American history in American schools?

Not very well.

 

[Zorba]

Its an grey area imo, it fits in that category that those who do not learn from history, or forgets it, are doomed to repeat it. We may be ripe for another WW soon.
On one hand if such symbolism fades into the void it could very well mean that have healed from that particular dark spot in our history, on the other hand those arguing its already gone too soon is pulling it back from the void cause stupid.
Too many variables. Cant think.

I bet they do. They wouldn’t be making a noose for no reason at all. And the racial nature of it is prevelant enough in society that they’d be aware.

To be clear I am not saying it isn't still a symbol of racism. I'm there one that posted the picture of the KKK with the noose. I just don't think that a 50 year old racist symbol is on the forefront of a teenagers brain, especially since many would've never learned about it being a racist symbol yet.

But if you have a bunch of teenage boys in a knot tying class, at least a few will think tying a noose is cool for the same reason they think BB guns are cool. I learned to tie a noose after learning about the Nuremberg trails when I was ~14. It was after that that my mom taught me about it being a racist symbol and lynchings. Kids aren't born knowing about past symbolism, it is learned with are and experience.

 

[FirNaTine]

That seems a little harsh. I doubt that many high schoolers nowadays have any idea it is racially charged. Although, it is basically having a weapon at school, so in that regard it should carry some punishment.

I agree with you about anyone doing this for any reason in a workplace is a moron though. Even if it isn't racial, it is definitely a threat. And I think most adults using it as a threat are likely doing it for racial reasons.

While it may seem harsh, that's why they are warned. And honestly, as you noted, the most significant discipline they are likely to receive is going to come through the school system as much as anything, as it's at school during their regular class time*. If it was actively/deliberately directed towards another student, I assume there could be legal consequences for a hate crime also.

But, to be in the class they have to already be a member of recognized FD (parental permission also as most start at 16-17 in junior year). So, their actions also represent their sponsoring agency. And from day one, they are told very clearly that they are representatives of their department and to conduct themselves accordingly. The very first day of training in entry level classes also cover EEO/discrimination. So, if only a few sessions later they pull something that stupid, it's probably not the right field for them (or they have some very significant growing up to do, and realize actions have consequences regardless of intent.)

I see articles almost daily about FFs charged with various things across the country, because when it is a firefighter, police officer, priest, doctor, or in some cases a teacher etc. the headline usually reflects it. Those positions have a measure of authority over others, and are rightly held to a higher standard because of it.

*While not a direct school system employee, I am teaching as an employee of our state university system, after a lengthy certification process in addition to technical experience. I would typically be a support instructor for hands on training, or occasionally a fill in lecturer to assist a lead instructor assigned to the school system.