New Poll Shows Americans Are Still Ignorant About Iraq

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Velk

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Sigh. I've said it before and I'll say it again. These polls do not reflect what people know. They merely reflect what they believe or want to believe.

"What they believe" and "What people know" are the same thing in this context. And if you know something is not true, but want to believe that it is true, then you're an idiot.

Not true.

According to current evidence, Saddam was not involved in 9/11. To the best of our knowledge, we can claim he was not involved. However, the limited knowledge we have does not make it a fact and a certainty Saddam was not involved in some way. I personally don't believe he was involved. But, like believing in evolution, I build my case on the current evidence. Like evolution, the best we can ever claim about Saddam not being involved in 9/11 is that it's a theory. In this case we can never know all the facts. All there will ever be is a degree of certainty.

Well yes, but there's also no evidence that YOU were not involved in 9/11. To the best of our knowledge we can claim you were not involved, but that doesn't make it a fact.

That might not prevent some from believing I was involved in 9/11. 😉

Anyway, that kind of silly because much of this goes to suspicion in the first place. I seriously doubt many would suspect I was involved.

This is where the accusations of brainwashing, and the obvious results come in. Do you think that if Bush made a series of speeches saying things like 'There is no *direct* evidence linking TLC to 9/11' and 'We found no connections between TLC and 9/11' and '9/11 was a great tragedy, we cannot be lax on possible terrorist supporters like TLC' that people would not begin to believe you were responsible, even though he did not say that, or even really imply it ?

If I were a brutal, megalomaniacal dictator in the ME whose known for mass murder without losing sleep over it, that might be very possible. But I'm not.

 

[phillyTIM]

The main problem is, people blindly believe everything a President tells them.

The secondary problem with Bush is, he contradicts himself so much over time that people no longer really care about following up on a subject that he speaks of.

Forget shock and awe, Bush's modus operandus is confuse and divide.

This poll results show exactly what the majority of Americans are...lemmings...following the leader even if the leader takes them down the road to hell.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

imo, the main problem is blindly stating as fact that people blindly believe everything Bush says. They have absolutely no proof that's the case. Sorry, but the causation for the case that people try to make in no way equals correlation.

 

[phillyTIM]

whatever

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Admittedly, TLC is actually on to something. For people like myself (physician scientist) what I believe is almost exclusively the domain of facts. I'm always willing to concede to alternative "perspectives" or "analysis" of the facts.

Unfortunately, in our current climate, our media is a tool being used by politicians to portray a set of selective "facts" as truth . . . in order to foster a set of beliefs. Naturally, those beliefs could not possibly evolve from an objective evaluation of available evidence. Hence, the misinformation campaign.

Here's an easy example. Bush would have all Americans believe that we are hated by many b/c we love freedom and they hate freedom. It's a ridiculous premise. Even a superficial inspection would show such a belief as demonstrably false. Yet the belief persists . . . in part due to the misinformation campaign . . . and in part b/c most Americans don't want to believe we are the bad guys.

Every bullet, JDAM, or bayonet has a bad guy's name on it. No innocent people are ever threatened or killed by Americans. If they are it's clearly someone else's fault . . . therefore we are blameless. If the CIA whisks people off to be tortured . . . they probably deserved it.

"Every bullet, JDAM, or bayonet has a bad guy's name on it.
No innocent people are ever threatened or killed by Americans.
If they are it's clearly someone else's fault . . . therefore we are blameless.
If the CIA whisks people off to be tortured . . . they probably deserved it."

Woa, that's the exact words of the Republican Military guy I work with. :shocked:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Czar
TastesLikeChicken,
ok back to the subject, do you think its ok that 40-50% americans belive something has no facts to support it?

You mean things like - 'Bush brainwashed everyone to believe how they believe?'

No, he had help from the Church groups that are on the Republican side.

The loonie left constantly proves me wrong.

Just when I think they can't make comments any more ignorant than their previous attempts, the deliver a new zinger.

Thanks for the laugh.

Did you go to Church during the run up to the Election???

I did.

I personally witnessed the Political persausion coming from the Pulpit.

They handed out bumper stickers in the parking lot.

Instead of go forth and serve God it was go forth and spread the word to re-elect our "Faithful" Leader George W Bush.

That's no "zinger" it's fact.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Admittedly, TLC is actually on to something. For people like myself (physician scientist) what I believe is almost exclusively the domain of facts. I'm always willing to concede to alternative "perspectives" or "analysis" of the facts.

Unfortunately, in our current climate, our media is a tool being used by politicians to portray a set of selective "facts" as truth . . . in order to foster a set of beliefs. Naturally, those beliefs could not possibly evolve from an objective evaluation of available evidence. Hence, the misinformation campaign.

Here's an easy example. Bush would have all Americans believe that we are hated by many b/c we love freedom and they hate freedom. It's a ridiculous premise. Even a superficial inspection would show such a belief as demonstrably false. Yet the belief persists . . . in part due to the misinformation campaign . . . and in part b/c most Americans don't want to believe we are the bad guys.

Every bullet, JDAM, or bayonet has a bad guy's name on it. No innocent people are ever threatened or killed by Americans. If they are it's clearly someone else's fault . . . therefore we are blameless. If the CIA whisks people off to be tortured . . . they probably deserved it.

:thumbsup:

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Czar
TastesLikeChicken,
ok back to the subject, do you think its ok that 40-50% americans belive something has no facts to support it?

You mean things like - 'Bush brainwashed everyone to believe how they believe?'

No, he had help from the Church groups that are on the Republican side.

The loonie left constantly proves me wrong.

Just when I think they can't make comments any more ignorant than their previous attempts, the deliver a new zinger.

Thanks for the laugh.

Did you go to Church during the run up to the Election???

I did.

I personally witnessed the Political persausion coming from the Pulpit.

They handed out bumper stickers in the parking lot.

Instead of go forth and serve God it was go forth and spread the word to re-elect our "Faithful" Leader George W Bush.

That's no "zinger" it's fact.

Read the flow of the discussion again, then read your comment. We were talking about believing something that has no basis in fact, and you make some comment about orgnanized religion.

iow, it would be wonderful if you could retain the discussion context in your commentary instead of jumping somewhere else that you've been a gazillion times before previously.

 

[Czar]

I think the main problem is we as humans tend to belive what we want to belive. It depends on the subject ofcorse but the stronger opinion we have on the issues the more likely we are to justify our belives with whatever we can get hold of, regardless if it has anything to do with the subject or not. In this case people want to belive all bad on Saddam and people want to put the blame for 9/11 on someone they can touch, or feel like they are.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Czar
I think the main problem is we as humans tend to belive what we want to belive. It depends on the subject ofcorse but the stronger opinion we have on the issues the more likely we are to justify our belives with whatever we can get hold of, regardless if it has anything to do with the subject or not. In this case people want to belive all bad on Saddam and people want to put the blame for 9/11 on someone they can touch, or feel like they are.

You can substitute Bush for Saddam in your statement and it still stands as true.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Czar
I think the main problem is we as humans tend to belive what we want to belive. It depends on the subject ofcorse but the stronger opinion we have on the issues the more likely we are to justify our belives with whatever we can get hold of, regardless if it has anything to do with the subject or not. In this case people want to belive all bad on Saddam and people want to put the blame for 9/11 on someone they can touch, or feel like they are.

You can substitute Bush for Saddam in your statement and it still stands as true.

this applies to everything, also for Bush supporters who cant belive anything bad on their man and use every justification they can come up with to dismiss all bad news as either false or irrelevant

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Czar
I think the main problem is we as humans tend to belive what we want to belive. It depends on the subject ofcorse but the stronger opinion we have on the issues the more likely we are to justify our belives with whatever we can get hold of, regardless if it has anything to do with the subject or not. In this case people want to belive all bad on Saddam and people want to put the blame for 9/11 on someone they can touch, or feel like they are.

You can substitute Bush for Saddam in your statement and it still stands as true.

this applies to everything, also for Bush supporters who cant belive anything bad on their man and use every justification they can come up with to dismiss all bad news as either false or irrelevant

Have you ever stopped to consider they're being defensive merely to counter the lunatic raving of the left these days? You are couching everything in extremes in your statement, so what do you expect their reaction to be?

If the left used a bit more common sense, the right might come around. If not, so what? At least it would change the balance of rational thought and moderate leanings in the left's favor and the left could actually claim some higher ground. It seems they don't give a crap today though. The left can't seem to congeal in any significant manner and the only thing they seem to have in common are their shrill whines about 'Bush this' and 'Bush that.' It's the very reason liberals disgust me today. Most act no better than those they accuse of behaving badly, and some are decidedly worse. Far worse. What has their whining accomplished? Not a GD thing except to make them look like idiots and reactionary fools. It's sad, damn sad, what they've devolved into.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Czar
I think the main problem is we as humans tend to belive what we want to belive. It depends on the subject ofcorse but the stronger opinion we have on the issues the more likely we are to justify our belives with whatever we can get hold of, regardless if it has anything to do with the subject or not. In this case people want to belive all bad on Saddam and people want to put the blame for 9/11 on someone they can touch, or feel like they are.

You can substitute Bush for Saddam in your statement and it still stands as true.

this applies to everything, also for Bush supporters who cant belive anything bad on their man and use every justification they can come up with to dismiss all bad news as either false or irrelevant

Have you ever stopped to consider they're being defensive merely to counter the lunatic raving of the left these days? You are couching everything in extremes in your statement, so what do you expect their reaction to be?

If the left used a bit more common sense, the right might come around. If not, so what? At least it would change the balance of rational thought and moderate leanings in the left's favor and the left could actually claim some higher ground. It seems they don't give a crap today though. The left can't seem to congeal in any significant manner and the only thing they seem to have in common are their shrill whines about 'Bush this' and 'Bush that.' It's the very reason liberals disgust me today. Most act no better than those they accuse of behaving badly, and some are decidedly worse. Far worse. What has their whining accomplished? Not a GD thing except to make them look like idiots and reactionary fools. It's sad, damn sad, what they've devolved into.

The far left we have on this forum definetly belives all bad about Bush and the far right we have on this forum belive all good about Bush. And here you say "If the left used a bit more common sense, the right might come around" same can easily be said about the right. The whole lack of respect for eachother is mostly at fault since no one here takes anyone seriously anymore, except when someone says something that is "approved" by the reader.

Everything you said just now applies to the right as well. I do hope you see that the extremism in both the left and the right on this forum has gone way too far for most discussions to matter.