New poll: Majority in U.S. is now 'pro-life'

[cwjerome]

STORY

I very rarely discuss anything abortion. I lean anti-abortion but I'm not fanatical about the issue at all. The bottom line is I'd very much prefer to see few abortions than many abortions.

It's one of those issues I believe you can't simply legislate away... there has to be a social change in people's attitudes and beliefs. I would not support every state passing hardcore anti-abortion laws tomorrow because I do not think it would have the desired effect. So if this poll indicates a subtle shift I'm very pleased and hope it continues to go in that direction, because that's how real change would have to happen.

 

[extra]

Yeah, the thing is though that it looks like in the same poll the majority of americans still believe abortion should be legal. Which seems to indicate people don't like abortions happening, but don't want it to be illegal, either, which is a pretty normal (and imho common sense) position to have.

 

[Mani]

I think the guy they quoted from Planned Parenthood summed it up perfectly - that "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are not the correct parameters for the debate at this point - that in fact you can be both, which a majority of Americans are.

 

[brxndxn]

Originally posted by: Mani
I think the guy they quoted from Planned Parenthood summed it up perfectly - that "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are not the correct parameters for the debate at this point - that in fact you can be both, which a majority of Americans are.

That's what I am..

I don't see why this is such a big issue anyway. Most people in their lives will never even need to consider abortion. Why do those people have an opinion?

 

[theeedude]

Good thing they also voted for Obama and Democrat Congress. Good ACLU lawyers are coming to the USSC

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: brxndxn

Originally posted by: Mani
I think the guy they quoted from Planned Parenthood summed it up perfectly - that "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are not the correct parameters for the debate at this point - that in fact you can be both, which a majority of Americans are.

That's what I am..

I don't see why this is such a big issue anyway. Most people in their lives will never even need to consider abortion. Why do those people have an opinion?

It is a wedge issue, meant to divide the people, and to distract from more important issues.

 

[Hacp]

Democrats have used the abortion for too long to lure female votes. It distracts them from the bread and butter issues like taxes, the economy, and the illegals.

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Good thing they also voted for Obama and Democrat Congress. Good ACLU lawyers are coming to the USSC

Heaven help us all if ACLU lawyers get to the scotus. Don't get me wrong, the ACLU is a necessary evil, but 80% of the time they are way left of center and they go with ideology over logic. We don't need more political correctness gone crazy all the way at the top of the chain. Anyway, that's not for this thread.

I, like (I'd guess most people) tend to be pro-choice for society, but pro-life personally. I'm pro-choice and my choice is life. I don't presume to be the right one to make that choice for others though.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: brxndxn

Originally posted by: Mani
I think the guy they quoted from Planned Parenthood summed it up perfectly - that "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are not the correct parameters for the debate at this point - that in fact you can be both, which a majority of Americans are.

That's what I am..

I don't see why this is such a big issue anyway. Most people in their lives will never even need to consider abortion. Why do those people have an opinion?

Most people will never be murdered, why do "those people" care? How dumb is it to think if we won't directly deal with a particular problem we should form no opinion? Every person has the right -and often the obligation- to be active in the marketplace of ideas. That's what a moral, vibrant, and free society does.

Originally posted by: bamacre
It is a wedge issue, meant to divide the people, and to distract from more important issues.

It's a shame you fall for the manufactured diversion of "wedge issues." People don't like the propaganda coming from one side so they create their own...

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Democrats have used the abortion for too long to lure female votes. It distracts them from the bread and butter issues like taxes, the economy, and the illegals.

And the people that have been using it lately to drive a wedge are the republicans - to lure religious votes. Both sides exploit the issue and have set it up as a false choice.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: bamacre
It is a wedge issue, meant to divide the people, and to distract from more important issues.

It's a shame you fall for the manufactured diversion of "wedge issues." People don't like the propaganda coming from one side so they create their own...

Interesting reply: Then how would you assess the interference in the Terri Schiavo case, by Republican politicians?

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Democrats have used the abortion for too long to lure female votes. It distracts them from the bread and butter issues like taxes, the economy, and the illegals.

And the majority of women voters prefer the Democrats' (look, CAD; it's called a plural possessive! Woo-Hoo!) platform on those issues as well; based on the last several elections.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: senseamp
Good thing they also voted for Obama and Democrat Congress. Good ACLU lawyers are coming to the USSC

Heaven help us all if ACLU lawyers get to the scotus. Don't get me wrong, the ACLU is a necessary evil, but 80% of the time they are way left of center and they go with ideology over logic. We don't need more political correctness gone crazy all the way at the top of the chain. Anyway, that's not for this thread.

I, like (I'd guess most people) tend to be pro-choice for society, but pro-life personally. I'm pro-choice and my choice is life. I don't presume to be the right one to make that choice for others though.

I agree with about all of this. I'm a life-long Dem, support (most) of what the ACLU does, yet I don't want to see them in the USSC either. Those positions should be filled with judges who have NO agendas, no political leanings, and are able to rationally consider both sides of an argument...not just the side they favor.

I, as a male, believe I have NO say in what a woman does with her body...except that, as her "life partner," I expect to be a part of any decision along these lines that my wife makes.

I'm NOT pro-abortion...but I am pro-CHOICE.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: senseamp
Good thing they also voted for Obama and Democrat Congress. Good ACLU lawyers are coming to the USSC

Heaven help us all if ACLU lawyers get to the scotus. Don't get me wrong, the ACLU is a necessary evil, but 80% of the time they are way left of center and they go with ideology over logic. We don't need more political correctness gone crazy all the way at the top of the chain. Anyway, that's not for this thread.

I, like (I'd guess most people) tend to be pro-choice for society, but pro-life personally. I'm pro-choice and my choice is life. I don't presume to be the right one to make that choice for others though.

Um, ACLU lawyers already reached the Supreme Court. Justice Ginsburg was one of the most prominent ACLU lawyers.

 

[DealMonkey]

This is the important stat IMHO:

23 percent saying it should be illegal in all circumstances

So long as we keep this extreme fringe group marginalized, I'll be happy.

 

[Vic]

Almost everyone is simultaneously 'pro-life' and 'pro-choice.' Orwellian-esque slogans FTL.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: brxndxnI don't see why this is such a big issue anyway. Most people in their lives will never even need to consider abortion. Why do those people have an opinion?

Because they conceive of a situation where they or a loved one or a woman they might have accidentally impregnated would want the option some day?

It is sad that so many Americans feel that abortion is a bad (not the same as should be illegal). This lack of support for an excellent form of birth control is hurting our society. As a result, we don't have free abortions for the poor and it's still stigmatized. Also, as a result, the concept of paper abortions for men (make women be responsible for their birthing choices) is unknown to Americans at this time.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Democrats have used the abortion for too long to lure female votes. It distracts them from the bread and butter issues like taxes, the economy, and the illegals.

You say this as though the Republicans (aka "borrow and spend"--implying higher taxes later) favor lower taxes and oppose illegal immigration. Under Republican leadership, Bush and McCain tried to enact amnesty for illegal aliens. Also, the Republicans did a great job of allowing the offshoring of the U.S. economy and the importation of foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas to displace Americans from knowledge-based jobs, which helped contribute to the current economic malaise. Certainly the Democrats are just as bad, but the Republicans are not Americans' friends either. Both parties stink and their members should be exiled or strung up.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: BoomerDI, as a male, believe I have NO say in what a woman does with her body...except that, as her "life partner," I expect to be a part of any decision along these lines that my wife makes.

I'm NOT pro-abortion...but I am pro-CHOICE.

What if a woman wants to have a child and you want her to have an abortion? You tried to explain to her that having an abortion would be the rational thing to do since the two of you aren't married and neither of you can afford to have a child. You even offered to pay for the costs of the abortion and even offered to give her $5000 to keep if she would do it. You also pleaded with her to agree to put the infant up for adoption but she wanted no part of it.

In that case, might you have a "say" over what a woman does with her body--such as her irrationality--her choice--having a negative impact on your life? Her choice--your responsibility. That's why I urge you to support the concept of paper abortions for men.

I agree that men shouldn't be able to force women to have abortions or not to have them, but that doesn't mean that men should have to pay for the costs of women's irrationality (an externality). If a man is willing to pay for the costs of an abortion and some money above that, then I'm all for his being able to legally waive all rights to the child and to be absolved of all child support and parental responsibilities.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: BoomerDI, as a male, believe I have NO say in what a woman does with her body...except that, as her "life partner," I expect to be a part of any decision along these lines that my wife makes.

I'm NOT pro-abortion...but I am pro-CHOICE.

What if a woman wants to have a child and you want her to have an abortion? You tried to explain to her that having an abortion would be the rational thing to do since the two of you aren't married and neither of you can afford to have a child. You even offered to pay for the costs of the abortion and even offered to give her $5000 to keep if she would do it. You also pleaded with her to agree to put the infant up for adoption but she wanted no part of it.

In that case, might you have a "say" over what a woman does with her body--such as her irrationality--her choice--having a negative impact on your life? Her choice--your responsibility. That's why I urge you to support the concept of paper abortions for men.

I agree that men shouldn't be able to force women to have abortions or not to have them, but that doesn't mean that men should have to pay for the costs of women's irrationality (an externality). If a man is willing to pay for the costs of an abortion and some money above that, then I'm all for his being able to legally waive all rights to the child and to be absolved of all child support and parental responsibilities.

As much as I agree with the concept that the current system of choice/right/responsibility is incredibly lopsided in women's favor and that it really sucks for men, I can't help but lament the "my rights over the child's good" attitude. That attitude started with women and it's now spreading very naturally to men.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: BoomerDI, as a male, believe I have NO say in what a woman does with her body...except that, as her "life partner," I expect to be a part of any decision along these lines that my wife makes.

I'm NOT pro-abortion...but I am pro-CHOICE.

What if a woman wants to have a child and you want her to have an abortion? You tried to explain to her that having an abortion would be the rational thing to do since the two of you aren't married and neither of you can afford to have a child. You even offered to pay for the costs of the abortion and even offered to give her $5000 to keep if she would do it. You also pleaded with her to agree to put the infant up for adoption but she wanted no part of it.

In that case, might you have a "say" over what a woman does with her body--such as her irrationality--her choice--having a negative impact on your life? Her choice--your responsibility. That's why I urge you to support the concept of paper abortions for men.

I agree that men shouldn't be able to force women to have abortions or not to have them, but that doesn't mean that men should have to pay for the costs of women's irrationality (an externality). If a man is willing to pay for the costs of an abortion and some money above that, then I'm all for his being able to legally waive all rights to the child and to be absolved of all child support and parental responsibilities.

Why would you give someone $5000 to have an abortion? Did you knock up a prostitute?

I bet I'm the biggest supporter of reproduction rights on this forum, but choosing to keep the baby is not "irrational." Everyone knows that if you want to pick on women you call them "irrational." You're sounding pretty misogynist right now.

If you're so concerned with child support, stop having unprotected sex with pro-life women.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Vic
Almost everyone is simultaneously 'pro-life' and 'pro-choice.' Orwellian-esque slogans FTL.

I agree and disagree.

 

[DaveSimmons]

From the article, 51% percent are pro-life (= abortions are bad) yet 77% percent are pro-choice (= legal abortions).

Like Clinton said, abortions should be legal and rare.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Democrats have used the abortion for too long to lure female votes. It distracts them from the bread and butter issues like taxes, the economy, and the illegals.

So during the 8 years of republican power...illegals have increased drastically, taxes did not go down, and the economy turned into shit. Republicans act like they care about these issues....but they sure as hell don't fucking put their money where their mouth is.

On the topic of abortion it comes down to an individuals free choice. Who are you to tell a woman that became pregnant from being raped that she cannot get a abortion? I'm sick and tired of people that are so concerned about other people's lifestyles/decisions. IT IS NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS.

 

[First]

Except a huge majority of Americans, 70%+, want to keep abortion legal federally in at least some cases. Fact is, nearly half of all self-described pro-lifers still want abortion to stay legal in limited cases and other pro-lifers in less limited cases. The end result is one and the same for 70%+ of Americans; don't make it illegal again in all cases, i.e. do not overturn the SC's 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling because there's simply far too much downside to overturning this particular federal law, not even close to appropriate. But it medically dangerous back-alley abortions, higher crime rates from discarded children, etc.

And lmao at people downplaying abortion as a wedge issue. It's hugely important.

EDIT: Here's the link to the 70%+ polls and an excerpt from the OP's article:

"The terms 'pro-choice' and 'pro-life' no longer define the parameters of the debate, witnessed by the fact that in the Gallup Poll, a majority of people say they are both pro-life and that abortion should be legal," Richards said.