new PC build, custom Athlon 64 X2 4400, comments?

prodesma

Junior Member
Oct 2, 2005
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I think I?ve finalized my build components. Here?s my list below. I am a pretty heavy graphics user (Illustrator, Photoshop, Dreamweaver), and am considering getting into some animation stuff (Maya, Bryce, Poser). I?m not much of a gamer (go figure!), so I think it?s best to go with the dual-cores. And every test I read, Athlon 64 X2?s are destroying Pentium D?s; and the 4400+ looks like the sweet spot. I?m hoping some of you may give me some feedback, since this will be my first pc build. Yeah, I figure I might OC this up to about 2.6 Ghz from its stock 2.2 Ghz- but that would be down the road.

Cpu: AMD athlon 4400+ X2 dual-core 2.2 Ghz, 2MB cache $526

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-K8N PRO-SLi nForce4 $133
I like this rear surround out and Serial II (SATA-300) capabilities.

RAM: 2 GB OCZ Platinum DDR400 (PC3200) 2 x 1 GB kit $220
Dual-channel, 2.6v, 2-3-2-5-1t, at barely more than budget ram prices.

Case: RED Aspire Cruiser ATX Mid-Tower $90
With its outside control dials, and lots of bays, this is one cool case.

Psu: Thermaltake W0023RUC PurePower 12v 560W $103
w/ active PFC, ATX Logic on-off, and 22A of +12v power.

Hsf: Zalman CNPS7000B-AlCu Kit $46
Seems that e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e else loves this kit for chillin? at home.

Video: ATi All-in-Wonder X600 Pro, 256 MB w/ TV-out $160

Sound: Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Gamer $85
Got hooked up on this pack from ZipZoomFly.

Drive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 250 GB $121
Using that SATA II 300mbps in the mobo, and w/ 16 mb cache!

Optical: NEC ND-3540 Dual Layer DVD+/-RW, CD-R $46

Reader: Mitsumi 7-in-1 card reader and floppy drive $20
Essential if I plan to ever load those BIOS, riiiiigggghht?

Monitor: Philips 19? SXGA LCD 190B6CS/27 $394
w/ speakers, a built-in TV tuner, USB port, 600:1, silver case.

Input: maybe Kensington Wireless Comfort Type $62
I?ve read the reviews saying how fast the mouse battery goes?

O/S: Microsoft XP Media Center, full version $114

Security: probably going with Macafee over Norton $40

Adds: Arctic Silver thermal compound & adhesive $20
?Building the Perfect PC? by Robert Bruce Thompson $20

I might try to run this at 2.68 Ghz, 268 Mhz FSB, 10x multi, 1.5v, HTT 3x,
Ram divider 11:12 @ 246 Mhz w/ 2.5-3-2-7 settings or closest and 2.8v.

Everything I?ve listed was at current prices from PriceGrabber INCLUDING TAX/SHIPPING. This build totals EXACTLY $2200 with operating system (after rebates).

I?m REALLY new to pc?s and need to get one pronto (I?ve been a Mac power-user my entire life). Yeah, so this would seem like a good way to learn about the equipment I?ll be using for the next 3-4 years.

Anybody want to comment if I should reconsider/be intimidated because I need to learn everything from scratch. I mean, I barely know command line. But I?m on an HP Pavillion a1123c (I am definitely returning this piece of shizzle) and have already gotten into the BIOS (mostly all cpu/mobo/ram is locked ot by HP).

Think you can do better on a budget?
Wanna copy this and build first to tell me how it matches?
The OC?d settings are just a guess, until I start twiddling, I won?t really know.
And, yes, I do think 2 GB RAM is important for my system, and 256 MB of vram isn?t necessary, but it hardly makes a cost difference and helps render times.

Lastly, I?ve thought about dropping to the X2 3800+, but the $157 in savings is borderline justifiable when losing the 1MB cache along with the 200Mhz clock. Seems then I may as well go with OCZ Plat revision 2 (2-2-2-5) 4 x 512 mb and push that to 260 Mhz and 1:1 with bus speed to help make up cache loss. And hey, that?s not saving money anymore. Or, use X2 3800+, take the loss, and drop to value Corsair 2 GB ram for $89, lighten up the hsf and roll an extra $300 under my mattress.

Thanks for input. Cheers.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
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www.markbetz.net
Looks good to me. I might be inclined to worry a little bit about that setup running warm in a mid-tower case, but someone else here will have a more expert opinion on that.

 

TankGuys

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2005
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The 4400 is ~$530. The 3800 is ~$360. They both Overclock to roughly the same level (actually, I've seen 3800's OC higher than 4400s... no idea why). So, is having 1 MB cache per core vs 512Kb worth the $170 to you? It will make a difference for your apps, more so than the average user, but it's still only like 5%. Seems like a big price premium to me.

Second, Thermaltake PSU's aren't too bad, but you may consider going with a Fortron, Antec, OCZ, et. al instead. They generally do a bit better, and can be had for nearly the same price.
 

KingCheeba

Member
Dec 21, 2000
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Looks good but since graphics/animation is what you're looking for, you may want to spend a few more $ on it.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
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For a little bit more money, I would upgrade the HSF, especially since you're looking for more than a mild overclock. XP-120, SI-120, Scythe Ninja, Big Typhoon or even the larger Zalman CNPS7700.

At this time, I would go with the Creative Xi-Fi xtreme Music for $120.

If you don't want to use a memory divider, you may want to consider the new GSkills. They have great bang for the buck:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231021

22A on the 12v rail is kind of skimpy nowadays. For the money, you can do better with a Fortron Bluestorm 500, Seasonic S12 500, OCZ Powerstorm 520 or Antec psu

Everything else looks good but for the money and performance ratio, the X2 3800+ may allow you to use those savings to upgrade elsewhere.
 

prodesma

Junior Member
Oct 2, 2005
13
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0
thanks for the fast replies peeps!
Yeah, I'd 'settle' for a 'mild' OC at 2.4 Ghz and be happy. So, at 2.4 Ghz, maybe the 3800+ is a better deal since it OC's just as well.Capt. Caveman. I'm still sorting this out in my mind. I'm not sure I understand the suggestion for Gskills when they're $20-ish MORE than the OCZ plats and run 3-4-4-8 at 2.6v.

Actually, I'd just changed the ps to that Thermaltake b/c it has active PFC and logic on-off. But I'm more leaning towards an Antec or the OCZ Powerstorm after all. Antec TruePower TP II 550 specs 19A +12v1 AND 19A +12v2. Is this TWO separate +12v outlets? Or is it a different type of +12v current that 'm not understanding. The OCZ Powerstorm 520 I think is my new favorite w/ 33A +12v, univesal connectors, and 5-yr warranty.

I might add/change the case fans later, I wanna see how hot/loud this sucker runs before mod'ing the existing mountsw/ my money.

King Cheeba, I didn't mention... Yeah I'm gonna be spending a lot more money... It's called software, and maybe a graphic tablet. But I'm on a serious budget here. I figure I can shoot $500 higher than a pre-configured desktop (Dell, HP, etc); I just have to remember not to get outta hand (dual 8800 graphics cards). The performance gains should justify the little extra somethin somethin I'm puttin in, right?

Thanks all. And no one yet has told me not to do it. I guess those unknowing have faith in a guy that has hardly looked at a pc keyboard in his lifetime. All the input is invaluable to a newbie like me. Cheers.
 

stevty2889

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2003
7,036
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I wouldn't put my faith in the Thermaltake PSU, I have one in my backup rig, and it's a replacement cause the first one died for no apparent reason. Been running fine for a year now, but they do have weak 12v rail, even a 300w enermax has 22a on the 12v rail..with the amount you are spending for the case and PSU, I'd just get the Antec Sonata II, comes with a good 450w PSU, and it's an excellent case, I'm very happy with it, plus you'll save some money while you're at it.

Another question..why spend more for an SLI motherboard..and get an ATI card??

The stock heatsink that comes with the 4400+ is actualy pretty good. I am at 2.618ghz with my 4200+ using the stock heatsink, and my max load temp with 2 instacnes of prime95 is 51c.
 

prodesma

Junior Member
Oct 2, 2005
13
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0
That's a nice setup stevty. Yeah, your collective wisdom has changed me (back) away from that PSU. I'd prefer to get this case, ... I like it. But if I had to pick a close second, the Sonata (Silver) would be a close second with the Ultra Dragon right alongside). I know the Dragon has some space issues for hsf, so it's almost certainly not-gonna-happen.

I'm not sure if 450W is enough margin? Everywhere I read up specs (most mobo's and video cards don't publish wattage) say I'd add up to about 420W with 2 x 1 GB ram and ONE vid card. If I have a windfall, I might step up to two rockin' SLI cards (just a matching pair for 2 new 20" widescreen LCD's), so that's a plus that my rig is upgradeable. I doubt I'll really need to though with a pretty screamin' system already built up.

Stevty, care to share your specs on the OC? What are your RAM settings and voltage? And HTT multi would be at 4 (952), right?

Sorry, being a newbie I don't understand "with 2 instances of prime95 is 51c." What's prime95 mean? I know "always under 50c" is pretty much the rule, right?
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
OP - in regard to the GSkills, the timings listed are at DDR500 250mhz. You'll be able to tighten them up a bit if you overclock lower than 250mhz and you won't need to use a memory divider.
 

stevty2889

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2003
7,036
8
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Originally posted by: prodesma
That's a nice setup stevty. Yeah, your collective wisdom has changed me (back) away from that PSU. I'd prefer to get this case, ... I like it. But if I had to pick a close second, the Sonata (Silver) would be a close second with the Ultra Dragon right alongside). I know the Dragon has some space issues for hsf, so it's almost certainly not-gonna-happen.

I'm not sure if 450W is enough margin? Everywhere I read up specs (most mobo's and video cards don't publish wattage) say I'd add up to about 420W with 2 x 1 GB ram and ONE vid card. If I have a windfall, I might step up to two rockin' SLI cards (just a matching pair for 2 new 20" widescreen LCD's), so that's a plus that my rig is upgradeable. I doubt I'll really need to though with a pretty screamin' system already built up.

Stevty, care to share your specs on the OC? What are your RAM settings and voltage? And HTT multi would be at 4 (952), right?

Sorry, being a newbie I don't understand "with 2 instances of prime95 is 51c." What's prime95 mean? I know "always under 50c" is pretty much the rule, right?

I'm using the 450w Antec to power my rig, so it won't have any problems with yours. 450 Antec is better than 560w thermaltake any day. If you do go with SLI later for some reason, then you'll need a bigger PSU, but SLI is really a waste in most cases, and you can run dual monitors with a single card anyway(I have 2 17" hitatchi's running off of mine).

Prime95's torture test is a good way of testing stability. You have to have the program running once for each core to test both of them. Set one to run on core0 and 1 to run on core1 so you can stress both cores of your dual core at the same time. I was running P4's before, so 51c is a really good temp compared to what I am used to, but seems to be a pretty normal temp for overclocked X2's.

I have my HTT@238mhz, 4x HTT multi, ram is at 180mhz divider(runs it at ~DDR400), 2-3-2-5 2.8v, 1.475v keeps me stable at 2.618ghz
 

prodesma

Junior Member
Oct 2, 2005
13
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0
I keep debating whether its worth saving the $152 by going with the 3800+ X2. I think I stuck on the idea that the 4400+ is the sweet spot for this cpu. Spend the extra 7% on the system, get 7% performance gain (or thereabouts, I know...).

Plus, it should allow me to run a stable 2.53 GHz @ 230 MHz x 11, with RAM at a 1:1 setting, hopefully at 2.8v at 2-2-2-5-1t settings for the OCZ plat sticks. That would be a nice 15% gain and should not run loud with fans always cooling or get my feet to toasty with the case on the floor.

Staying steady at exactly $2200 seems manageable for me.

BTW, where can I d/l all the app's people use for OC'ing? I've found CPU-Z (pcworld article, I think), I know he BIOS will come from Gigabyte site, but what abt Sandra, speedmark, and other tests? Are they freeware/shareware/or buy only?

I really can't figure what other cards I might ever need. 1 PCI sill be the Audigy 2 ZS, One PCI-Ex x16 will be the video, but I don't know what else goes into these. I guess, frewire adapter (my mobo has it, and Audigy includes this), serial or scsi adpater (like I need to use a 15 scanner or 100MB zip drive?), network (only 'puter, so unecessary), tv tuner (on my vid card, right?). I guess a MIDI controller could be for Abeleton Live/Reason etc- does that fit here?

Last thing for now) if someone could help...

Do I need BOTh Arctic Silver Thermal Compound AND Thermal Adhesive?
I understand the difference (one glues things, the other doesn't, basically).
But WHERE do I need it, and when do I use it?

I guess Adhesive goes on new HSF above cpu when I remove stock one, right?
Does Compound go around the case fans or video card slots or around mobo or something?

Or do I have that backwards and compound goes on HSF and Adhesive on fan case mounts?

Thanks for all the input peeps, your words are very helpful.
 

stevty2889

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2003
7,036
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Actualy you shouldn't need thermal adhesive in most cases. Thermal adhesive would be used maybe to attach ramsinks to indvidual ram chips on the stick as there isn't really another way to mount them. You want to be able to remove the heatsink again at some point so I would really advise against putting adhesive there...thermal compound is basicly to fill in the microscopic gaps and inperfections in the heatsink and CPU heat spreader, to prevent air pockets and improve thermal conductivity.