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New P4 2.4Ghz = redesigned P4; 533FSB release moved up two weeks

K

KenAF

Senior member
According to this article over on Cnet...the forthcoming P4 2.4Ghz (April ~3) will feature a new layout and design. This new layout reduces Northwood's die size by 10%, from 146mm^2 to 131mm^2. It remains to be seen what impact this will have on the P4, aside from reducing production costs.

According to the article, Intel has also moved up the release of the 533FSB by two weeks, from the week of May 20 to May 6.
 
I wonder if that first 2.4 under the new design will be considered a stepping upgrade or something more significant? The Northwoods should have had a stepping upgrade by now, just going by past chip releases. I also wonder if the new design will only apply to chips clocked at 2.4 on up...?
 
I also wonder if the new design will only apply to chips clocked at 2.4 on up

Maybe at first, but I doubt it in the long run. The amount of performance that 133mhz fsb brings to the P4 is what will most likely keep it alive. Not very many people will want to buy a 2.4ghz chip, and puting a 133mhz fsb on all their chips makes buying a P4 much more tempting. The fact that they didn't release the P4's at 133mhz fsb was very odd IMO. The P4 isn't going to last very long in terms of sales with all the new stuff AMD is putting out. I for one am jumping on the new P4's and sitting happy till something twice as fast comes out, I've never seen so much performance at such a cool temp.
 
It remains to be seen what impact this will have on the P4, aside from reducing production costs.

It probably means they'll be able to stay at 1.5V while going beyond 2.2 GHz.

According to the article, Intel has also moved up the release of the 533FSB by two weeks, from the week of May 20 to May 6.

Probably because of competition from AMD with respect to the upcoming Throroughbred and Hammer processors. Competition is great, isn't it? 🙂
 
Competition is great, isn't it?

Yes, I find it a wonderfull thing. I'm skeptical of AMD now, I've run there latest and greatest and just cant seem to ever be happy with it. Hopefully AMD pop's out with something that competes with Intels prized dependability insted of just being speed freaks.
 
Should be a stepping increment, not a model increment. From what I have seen, quite a few stepping increments have lately involved minor reductions to die space.

Model increments are fairly major, ie Willamette to Northwood, or Coppermine to Tualatin.
 
So the chipset is officially released on May 6th.. when do the Motherboards supporting this come out? I assume prior to the trickle down of the 533FSB to the slower speed P4's

I am about to upgrade (still waiting for that Tax Check), and would like to get one of the new boards even if I have to get a 400Mhz FSB P4 at first.

The new board would enable it's lifecycle to be quite a bit longer.
 
This is great news coming from Intel! A smaller die along with 300mm wafers should help them narrow the production costs. I have to say I'm quite impressed with how much lower the Vcore of the Northwood is compared to its older sibling. I doubt AMD will be able to reduce voltage as much with Tbred. Rumors circulating say 1 to 1.5V tops. If that's the case AMD may likely have to bring out Barton, give up the highend to Intel until Hammer or release Hammer early (much like Intel had to do with Northwood).
 


<< I am about to upgrade (still waiting for that Tax Check), and would like to get one of the new boards even if I have to get a 400Mhz FSB P4 at first. >>



My thinking exactly, which is why my new system is on hold until the new 533mz boards are available.

Even if the new CPU is out at the same time, I will still take advantage of the prices on like a P4-1.8 and simply plop a 2.4 or higher in a year from now, when the prices drop significantly. Even with a P4-1.8, I will still get the increased bandwidth with dual ddr. I've been told it should be 5.4/sec with dual 2700 DDRs, as opposed to the current 2.7/Sec, or 3.2/Sec with 800 Rambus.

Terrapin
 


<< The fact that they didn't release the P4's at 133mhz fsb was very odd IMO >>

no rambus availability at that bandwidth.

stepping changes happen fairly often. cA0 was the first cumine, cB0 the GHz stepping, cC0 was better than 1GHz.

amd changes steppings even more often. think about how many thunderbird steppings there were... AVIA, AXIA, AYHJA and tons others. should go to most of the lineup fairly quickly i would think, the cost savings of a 10% reduction in space should be pretty good.
 
Looks like Intel is really pushing out those P4's, and this reduction in die size will only help to lower costs and increase theoretical Northwood supply at the high-end (for now).

This will likely push AMD to release desktop Tbreds during the month of May to counter Intel in good time. Btw, the CNET article didn't say anything about 533MHz FSB P4's being released 2 weeks early, they said just the supporting 533MHz FSB chipsets KenAF.
 
Why would that be pretty good? Do you think that pure silicon wafer material is the only cost involved in getting a processor to you? What about the design costs, the fabrication plant costs, the marketing costs, the labor costs, the chip packaging costs?
All that is between Intel charging what it likes for processors is AMD. It will be what AMD charge that influences the price of the lower-end processors.
 
giocopiano wrote:

"All that is between Intel charging what it likes for processors is AMD."

Mostly, but the slumping economy has a lot to do with it too. Competition is a very good thing, and I hope AMD moves along briskly with Thoroughbred, Barton, and eventually drops the Hammer 😀
 


<< Why would that be pretty good? Do you think that pure silicon wafer material is the only cost involved in getting a processor to you? What about the design costs, the fabrication plant costs, the marketing costs, the labor costs, the chip packaging costs? >>



From what I've heard, raw silicon wafers are pretty cheap. But smaller die sizes will reduce production costs through economies of scale. <opens Econ 101 book> If it costs Intel $1000 to process a wafer, and they get 10 Northwoods from it, that's $100 per chip. If they can reduce die size, and get 12 out of it, processing costs per chip are reduced to $83.

[Figures used in this demonstration were obviously arbitrary, and chosen solely to make a point. I have no idea what it costs to process a wafer.]
 
AMEN, AMD sure HAS been putting the pressure on Intel; and it has been almost 2 years since Intel's last major blunder.
Things are looking more interesting every day!!!!

I suspect that Intel will start to apply the new architecture to lower clocked processors just as it did with the Northwood; Northwood originally released at 2.2 GHz, now available at 1.6A GHz, 1.8A GHz, etc...

Let's see what the "Hammer" will have to offer though.........

Now if AMD could only get that VIA MONKEY off it's back.....

Come on NVIDIA, SIS, Ali, let's get it together so AMD doesn't have to rely so heavily on VIA.
 
Will the die shrink design also find itself down to the 2.2, 2.0 and possibly even lower speed grades? It sounds like such a reduction in die size would allow better overclocking results, but I don't wanna have to drop $500 for the top of the line 2.4 GHz chip just for better overclocking results.
 
Will the die shrink design also find itself down to the 2.2, 2.0 and possibly even lower speed grades? It sounds like such a reduction in die size would allow better overclocking results, but I don't wanna have to drop $500 for the top of the line 2.4 GHz chip just for better overclocking results.


Actually a reduction in die size will make it harder to cool and thus harder to overclock reliably. A smaller surface area reduces the amount of heat that can be transferred at a given time. Only a reduction to voltage or current will reduce the power (in watts) dissipated. It goes back to the old P = E x I formula. This is something facing the Tbreds due to their tiny 80mm die. My guess is that AMD may try to go at Intel's throat with low cost. We'll see if they can ship enough volume to make that strategy work. If they can get the wattage down, a Tbred will be hard to beat in the laptop space where it can trash the PIII on speed and the P4 on power use/heat.
 


<< Will the die shrink design also find itself down to the 2.2, 2.0 and possibly even lower speed grades? >>

Most likely. However, there are still lots of 2.2 and lower Northwoods of the older stepping out there, so it will take awhile before all of them are sold.

I suspect we may have another 'CA2 vs. CB0' style hunt this spring.
 
I gotta say .. I like AMD and everything but my eardrums can't take much more. I know you can quiet down an AMD system but you'll have to pay out your a$$ for expensive fans and big heatsinks to do so .. I just built my first P4 system last night and it was the smoothest build I've ever done, not only that, but it was QUIET .. only one case fan (not even necessary) and that retail 1.6a HSF is nice and quiet too ..
I still like AMD though 🙂
and I love the competition and the different approaches to faster computing, it's great.
Can't wait till AMD releases their new toys, can't wait till this 133 FSB P4 lovin comes out too 🙂
I wish there were more CPU manufacturers 🙂
 
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