New Orleans

slyedog

Senior member
Jan 12, 2001
934
0
0
Subject: FW: This is a point of view held by many!
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:33:35 -0500
Source-TIA Daily 9-2-2005

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure
>> out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them,
>> because it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is
going
>> on
>> there. The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think

>> that
>> we are confronting a natural disaster.
>>
>> If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials
>> is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send
>> transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send
>> engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure.

>> For
>> journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the
heroism
>> of ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard work and
>> dedication of doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being
taken
>> to clean up and rebuild.
>>
>> Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have
to
>> do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if
they
>> are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself
>> included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain,
wind,
>> and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.
>>
>> But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.
>>
>> The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by
>> federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane
>> Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television
channel
>> has gotten the story wrong.
>>
>> The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not
>> happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four
decades.
>> Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.
>>
>> The man-made disaster is the welfare state.
>>
>> For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be
>> confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to
behave
>> in
>> an emergency--indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in
>> other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have
>> been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it
is
>> not even what we expect from a Third World country.
>>
>> When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion.
>> They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously
>> organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in
>> America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own
>> initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care
of
>> us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town
>> whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to
get
>> out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars
>> through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of

>> New
>> Yorkers to September 11).
>>
>> So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
>>
>> To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a
>> description from a Washington Times story:
>>
>> "Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists,
>> knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets;
and
>> police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.
>>
>> "The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen
>> poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and
>> gunfire....
>>
>> "Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened
>> Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with
>> shoot-to-kill orders.
>>
>> "'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the
streets,'
>> she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These
troops
>> know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if
>> necessary and I expect they will.' "
>>
>> The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this
article
>> shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on
an
>> armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of
>> squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them.
It
>> looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.
>>
>> What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse
for
>> an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs
to
>> storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the
>> drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people
to
>> attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?
>>
>> Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further
>> destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help
>> them?
>>
>> My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a
>> sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox
News
>> Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She
>> studied
>> architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located
in
>> the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor
Homes,
>> one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The
>> projects," as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime

>> and
>> irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)
>>
>> What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a
>> whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the
>> informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most
news
>> channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of
the
>> residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane,
and
>> of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the
city's
>> public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional,
>> crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city
had
>> no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails--so
they
>> just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a significant overlap
>> between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in
the
>> jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa.
>>
>> There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when
the
>> deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people
from
>> two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people
selected,
>> over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced
>> helplessness.
>> The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent
>> administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.
>>
>> All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of
>> the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of
the
>> city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a
city
>> corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to
ensure
>> the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political
>> supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of
>> emergency.
>>
>> No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact,
>> some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for
>> example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New
Orleans
>> had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an
>> execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious
>> Canadian who blames the chaos on American "individualism." But the
truth
>> is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was
the
>> exact opposite of individualism.
>>
>> What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of
>> the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency
is
>> behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the
>> responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond
to
>> a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to
>> overcome
>> the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that
the
>> government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a
>> disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.
>>
>> But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about
>> saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own
>> anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their
>> businesses
>> or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about
those
>> things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off
of
>> stolen wealth is a way of life for them.
>>
>> The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains
>> and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral
>> ugliness
>> that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is
>> reporting.
>>
>>>> Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005



 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Why not post something from Michael Savage or Rush Limbaugh?


:roll:


:cookie: for the troll.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Does anyone posting this kind of stuff have any statistics of just how many people from N.O. are on welfare?

I guess those 700,000 to 1,000,000 lost jobs were all "welfare jobs" too.

Waits for welfare stats. from N.O.

P.S. Commentary is required for posting in P&N. No post and run threads! Thanks for playing! :)
 

slyedog

Senior member
Jan 12, 2001
934
0
0
the 700,000 to 1,000000 jobs include all disaster areas, not just New Orleans. keep watching tv.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
>>I hate it when

>>people refuse to take out the
>>spacers in their FWD: fwd: fwd: FW





>>D: fwd: e-mails. Do us all a fav
>>or and hit edit.

>> thanks.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Why not post something from Michael Savage or Rush Limbaugh?


:roll:


:cookie: for the troll.

You really don't like postings that don't meet your image of liberals saving space and time and making them all better while the stupid Red states workers slave cheerfully to support them, do you?

 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: Engineer
Does anyone posting this kind of stuff have any statistics of just how many people from N.O. are on welfare?

I guess those 700,000 to 1,000,000 lost jobs were all "welfare jobs" too.

Waits for welfare stats. from N.O.

P.S. Commentary is required for posting in P&N. No post and run threads! Thanks for playing! :)

Never seen the post and run charge from a liberal thread.

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: conjur
Why not post something from Michael Savage or Rush Limbaugh?


:roll:


:cookie: for the troll.

You really don't like postings that don't meet your image of liberals saving space and time and making them all better while the stupid Red states workers slave cheerfully to support them, do you?

I kind of doubt that's what this is about. There are certainly good arguments against welfare and the downsides of the welfare system. The post by the OP isn't one of them, it's simply one of a seemingly endless number of attempts to pin the results of the disaster in New Orleans on someone or some group the writer doesn't like.

Personally I think this sort of nonsense needs to stop, if only because nobody making the arguments knows what the hell they are talking about, using their wives as their logical support.
 

slyedog

Senior member
Jan 12, 2001
934
0
0
not trying to put the blame on any one group in a disaster of this magnitude. fed,state and the local gov will all share some of this blame. there is plenty to go around. but that does not change the city of NO from being a welfare city like the article stated.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: slyedog
the 700,000 to 1,000000 jobs include all disaster areas, not just New Orleans. keep watching tv.

You win today's troll showcase including fabulous prizes including a trip to the caves, a bucket of dirt and, the bonus prize, a :cookie: :)

Keep trolling and have a nice day! :)

Oh, any statistics on welfare from N.O? Thanks for the quick answer.

Originally posted by: slyedog
not trying to put the blame on any one group in a disaster of this magnitude. fed,state and the local gov will all share some of this blame. there is plenty to go around. but that does not change the city of NO from being a welfare city like the article stated.

Maybe it is. Any statistics? (oh, and I hate unneeded welfare with a passion. If you're able to breathe and think clearly and even get around, you're able to work. But, I don't know what percentage of N.O. is on Welfare so I'm curious as to the welfare status of N.O.

Is it similar to western counties in West Virginia (Mingo, Logan, etc) that have 60% of the county residents receiving government assistance?
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: slyedog
not trying to put the blame on any one group in a disaster of this magnitude. fed,state and the local gov will all share some of this blame. there is plenty to go around. but that does not change the city of NO from being a welfare city like the article stated.

I have several friends who are very liberal (Ouch!) and some of them live in big cities. They refuse to own a car and talk to great lengths about how they are saving the energy universe. They always critize me for owning a car when they aren't trying to mooch a ride. Anyone think of how many that particular liberal attitude killed in New Orleans? I almost bought a Surbarban a month or so ago. Many times after Katrinia, I have thought that I could have brought about fifteen very close friends out in that if I had been there.

 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
>>I hate it when

>>people refuse to take out the
>>spacers in their FWD: fwd: fwd: FW





>>D: fwd: e-mails. Do us all a fav
>>or and hit edit.

>> thanks.

:laugh:

 

loup garou

Lifer
Feb 17, 2000
35,132
1
81
Originally posted by: slyedog
not trying to put the blame on any one group in a disaster of this magnitude. fed,state and the local gov will all share some of this blame. there is plenty to go around. but that does not change the city of NO from being a welfare city like the article stated.
I agree that there are many groups to blame, but don't try and draw attention to blame it on the big, bad city. Take a trip over to New Iberia...you'd have a bad situation if this happened a little further west, near you in New Roads. For fvck's sake, many of those people are poorer than the New Orleanians' from the projects these idiots are seeing on CNN. The problem is, if this hurricane hit over there, these idiots wouldn't have a CNN feed to slather and argue over...there would be dead silence.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Like numerous other threads on the New Orleans disaster, it is futile at best to even suggest or attempt to lump the blame on any one government entity, leader or segment of the population.

Conservatives are quick to dismiss charges that FEMA or President Bush are entirely to blame for New Orleans.

Democrats are quick to dismiss charges that Mayor Nagin or the welfare state are entirely to blame for New Orleans.

The welfare state is one of many contributing factors.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
NO was a failure from top to bottom. It's one of those events where EVERYONE screwed up. The city, state and federal governments all failed.

NO city government failed to enact their own evacuation guidelines and create a contingincy plan.

The LA state government failed to prepare and pre-position the state guard personel for rescue and order.

And I won't even mention the rampant corruption and cronyism that exists at both levels of gonvernance...

FEMA was headed by imcompetent people who had no clue what to do when systems that were supposed to be set up by NO and LA authorities never happened.

And all of these people were telling Dubbya (who was stupid enough to listen to them) that everything was under control. And he let it go at that. *sigh*

This is a fairly simplistic hill for shlt to roll down but basically that's what happened.

The old saying used to be that "people who can do... and people who can't, teach." I think the new rule is that people who can do... and people who are attention whores or crave power they don't deserve get into public service.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: slyedog
not trying to put the blame on any one group in a disaster of this magnitude. fed,state and the local gov will all share some of this blame. there is plenty to go around. but that does not change the city of NO from being a welfare city like the article stated.

And you'd have a good point if the article stated anything even close to that. But like all the increasingly stupid bits about who's to blame, it tries to throw the entire blame on one particular group that the author clearly had a problem with long before the disaster.