New office built

[Torn Mind]

i5 does make sense too, even if it simply is more about the IT guys being able to get their things done faster, like installing apps or doing backups.

 

[Galatian]

I really do not get the hate for the NUC type devices in these types of threads. The NUC is an awesome little box, produces basically no heat, has no moving parts, smaller than an Xbox controller, but no one ever likes them.

I am using one for a XBMC media center PC and it kicks ass.

I am probably going to be buying 3-4 more to upgrade my ESXi lab at the house, since it can run 5.5.

If you can show me a NUC case that can fit both an ODD, an SSD and an HDD we are talking. Believe me, I looked into it and really like the thing. I just don't want my BF to hassle around all the time with external drives and such.

 

[Charlie98]

It has an i7, an SSD, and 16GB of RAM. And the movies I am playing are not streaming, they are high bitrate MKV files played over the network.

Please tell me how any of these other suggestions are better.

I was thinking it had a Celeron or something... an i7? Playback of an MKV file doesn't require CPU horsepower.

 

[yinan]

If you can show me a NUC case that can fit both an ODD, an SSD and an HDD we are talking. Believe me, I looked into it and really like the thing. I just don't want my BF to hassle around all the time with external drives and such.

True they cannot have those, but with USB 3 there really isn't a performance penalty for using external for those devices.

 

[Torn Mind]

I was thinking it had a Celeron or something... an i7? Playback of an MKV file doesn't require CPU horsepower.

NUC i7s are mobile i7s. 2 cores, Hyperthreading, and high Turbo Boost. If Turbo Boost can hit its max, then it will be ever so slightly faster than a Pentium G3220. It will not be faster than an i3-4130, however. I think the graphics though, would be the HD 4000 if it is 3rd gen, and HD 5000 if it is 4th gen.

In terms of gaming on the IGP, the mobile part is actually more powerful.
EDIT: looks like I spoke too soon. There are a variety of IGPs for mobile Haswell i5s and i7, xx50s have the more powerful HD5000 while xx00s have the 4400 graphics.

Most video playback is done by hardware acceleration, meaning the GPU does all the work while the CPU just idles.

Hmm, I am having difficulty finding a NUC with i7 specs. The i5s would be equal to or slightly worse than a G3220 while having more powerful IGPs...

 

[Torn Mind]

True they cannot have those, but with USB 3 there really isn't a performance penalty for using external for those devices.

He did not cite performance as an issue.

I think he's more concerned with the hassle of it occupying deskspace and extra cords getting in the way.

 

[VirtualLarry]

He is just doing some Office stuff and Facebook and the like. No gaming, no photoshop...I guess an i3 will be fine? Will I/he regret not having the TSX-NI or will that not be relevant for the near future?

TSX is used for heavily multi-threaded apps. AES is used for crypto (BitLocker, TrueCrypt, etc.).

I think that the Haswell i3 CPUs have AES but not TSX.

 

[Galatian]

According to ARK Intel the following things are missing from the i3:

• Intel® Turbo Boost Technology
• Intel® vPro Technology
• Intel® Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O (VT-d)
• Intel® TSX-NI
• Intel® Stable Image Platform Program (SIPP)
• Trusted Execution Technology

Is any of this important for an office built? I'm kinda leaning towards the i5, just because it has all functions as well as 4 "true" cores, while not being that much more expensive. If you guys say it doesn't matter than I might as well save some money.

 

[Essence_of_War]

It almost certainly is not important for a basic office build.

What does your budget look like? At most retailers, there is a pretty big price jump from pentium to i3 to i5. Depending on your budget and your local retail conditions, I think the i3, and particularly the i3-4130, is probably a good performance/$ choice. Within the i3 price band, I wouldn't spend any more money for a higher clocked i3 than the 4130, nor would I spend more money for the much lower clocked 'T' version.

 

[Charlie98]

In general terms, you double the cost going from a Pentium to an i3 ($60 to $120) and then double again going i3 to i5 ($120 to $240. US ) It's whatever you can afford. If you are patient, there are sales and whatnot.

I have an i5 in my desktop, which is my business computer... and I don't really do anything besides transcode video that actually taxes the CPU, and that includes MS Office, QuickBooks, and some light photo processing. I could easily drop a Pentium in and realize very little difference.

 

[mfenn]

True they cannot have those, but with USB 3 there really isn't a performance penalty for using external for those devices.

At that point you might as well just get a bigger case and not have to worry about loose piles of drives everywhere.

 

[mfenn]

According to ARK Intel the following things are missing from the i3:

• Intel® Turbo Boost Technology
• Intel® vPro Technology
• Intel® Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O (VT-d)
• Intel® TSX-NI
• Intel® Stable Image Platform Program (SIPP)
• Trusted Execution Technology

Is any of this important for an office built? I'm kinda leaning towards the i5, just because it has all functions as well as 4 "true" cores, while not being that much more expensive. If you guys say it doesn't matter than I might as well save some money.

Turbo Boost is the only item on that list that matters day-to-day home office use. Turbo is certainly nice, but it really depends on how much you want to spend.

TSX is used for heavily multi-threaded apps.

If the application is coded with TSX instructions. And that's a big if for an ISA extension that is less than a year old.

 

[Cerb]

If the application is coded with TSX instructions. And that's a big if for an ISA extension that is less than a year old.

Also, since many common consumer CPUs lack TSX-NI, not merely the K chips, HLE, which aught to suit those chips, and low thread-counts, is only being developed for server-centric applications (for which it will probably be another year two before they are in stable versions of any). So, it's, somewhat sadly, IMO, pretty much a non-issue, for the next few years.

 

[Galatian]

Back to square one: I find the passive cooled case to be too expensive. The case itself is 150€, add 80€ for the pico PSU and the slim line Blu-Ray Drive for 100€ and I got a pretty expensive case, before even starting to add actual hardware.

I was looking at the Bitfenix Prodigy, which seems like a nice case and is cheap, but rather big. One other option seems to be the EVGA Hadron Air, which is small and for 170€ but with an PSU fairly cheap. What other option would I have for a small and quiet case? It needs to fit a ODD and at least a 3,5" HDD and a 2,5" SSD.

Also I'm pretty much set on the Core i5. The Core i3 are just barely cheaper (160€ vs 130&#8364, but offer substantially lower performance. Also the AMD APUs seem to be out of the question. I'm not really sure what their point is, because price wise they are on par with the Core i3, but offer less IPC but better GPU power. GPU is not really a concern for this built anyway, but even if I guess a cheap discrete card but be much better all around...well I don't want to start a flame war.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Yeah, you pay a pretty penny for passive/near silent cooling.

So you're looking for a quiet, compact case? Ideally mini itx?

 

[Galatian]

Yeah, you pay a pretty penny for passive/near silent cooling.

So you're looking for a quiet, compact case? Ideally mini itx?

Correct! Se me edited post before. Somehow Tapatalk didn't transfer everything i wrote after the first € sign...

 

[Cerb]

With a passive or semi-passive PSU (including a PicoPSU, if you can get a plate to go over the hole in the case), and beefy cooler, and office box with an i3, i5, i7, or Xeon E3 could be made very quiet in a Prodigy, Sugo, etc., by virtue of using only one or two very quiet fans, so long as it had no HDD, or a soft-mounted low-vibration HDD (any 2.5" HDD, WD RED 3.5", or 7200 RPM Seagate 3.5").

 

[Galatian]

With a passive or semi-passive PSU (including a PicoPSU, if you can get a plate to go over the hole in the case), and beefy cooler, and office box with an i3, i5, i7, or Xeon E3 could be made very quiet in a Prodigy, Sugo, etc., by virtue of using only one or two very quiet fans, so long as it had no HDD, or a soft-mounted low-vibration HDD (any 2.5" HDD, WD RED 3.5", or 7200 RPM Seagate 3.5").

I guess what I'm really looking for is something like a Mac mini case. I want an ODD and at least room for one HDD (I can get by with an mSATA SSD). If there is a (fairly cheap) case like that out there please tell me as I don't necessarily want to go the tower route. The Sugo cases seem to be to big for what I really want as I don't need expansion cards.

 

[mfenn]

I guess what I'm really looking for is something like a Mac mini case. I want an ODD and at least room for one HDD (I can get by with an mSATA SSD). If there is a (fairly cheap) case like that out there please tell me as I don't necessarily want to go the tower route. The Sugo cases seem to be to big for what I really want as I don't need expansion cards.

The optical drive is what really kills you on the small case front. Once you add one of those, everything gets bigger. How about this IN WIN BP655? It's 12x10x4, which is quite a lot smaller than the smallest Sugo and miniscule in comparison to the Prodigy. You'll need to replace the stock 80mm fan with something quieter, it'd still be very inexpensive.

 

[Galatian]

The optical drive is what really kills you on the small case front. Once you add one of those, everything gets bigger. How about this IN WIN BP655? It's 12x10x4, which is quite a lot smaller than the smallest Sugo and miniscule in comparison to the Prodigy. You'll need to replace the stock 80mm fan with something quieter, it'd still be very inexpensive.

Interesting: I'm looking at the BM639 Mini-ITX which looks fairly nice and which can fit both a slim line ODD + one 2,5" and one 3,5" HDD/SSD. Are the power supplies any good and/or loud? I can't find any information on how tall the CPU cooler can be on this one.

So far I have settled down on the following components:

• ZOTAC H87-ITX Intel H87 So.1150 Dual Channel for 90,42€
• Intel Core i5 4570S for 160,53€ - the non S Version was actually more expensive, so I might as well save a little bit on the TDP front
• 120 GB Samsung 840 Evo Series for 81,85€

RAM will be the the 2 x 4 GB Sticks I'm using in my computer right now (decided to upgrade). I'll still need an ODD and if I read the documents correct the case would support a normal sized (read cheaper) ODD and both a 2,5" and 3,5" HDD/SSD when I use the mITX format. HDD should be the be the biggest volume for my money.

 

[mfenn]

I don't think the slim ODD is worthwhile, you're only saving 2" length and 1" height , but have to get a very expensive drive especially since you want Blu-Ray. The power supplies ain't great, but they'll do for a low-draw application. Like I said before, you'll have to replace the fans to make them quiet.

The BM655 has two 3.5" bays and a 5.25" bay, so you'll be able to use an SSD, HDD, and ODD at the same time. There is nothing between the socket area and the side panel, so you'll be able to use pretty much the full width of the case, minus the motherboard standoffs. 3" (basically the length of a low-profile PCI bracket) would be a conservative upper bound.

 

[cubby1223]

I've built a near-silent machine that is also very powerful. The key is to purchase passive components then attach very slow fans to them, like combining this with this. (don't know why the fan is currently so expensive, was under $10 when I bought it)

Although that setup takes more space, you get the idea. Even very small airflow goes a long way to keeping the hardware running cool. Nobody wants to touch a device that burns the hands. In my opinion, as I am obsessive about reducing fan noise, going completely fanless is stupid, you can achieve so much more performance with near silent fans.

 

[Galatian]

Ok...thanks for all your comments. I have been putting together several builts and compared prices as well as benchmarks. Right now I came up with the following:

• Asus H81I-Plus Intel H81 So.1150 Dual Channel DDR3 Mini-ITX Retail for 69,10 €
• Intel Core i3 4130 2x 3.40GHz So.1150 BOX for 101,92 €
• IN WIN BM639 Mini-ITX ITX Tower 160 Watt for 56,97 €
• 120GB Samsung 840 Evo Series 2.5" for 93,67 €
• LG Electronics BH16NS40 Blu-ray Disc Writer SATA 69,55 €
• 3000GB Seagate Desktop HDD ST3000DM001 64MB 3.5" for 98,77 €

Total: 489,98 €

I planning to check out the boxed fans first. If I find them too loud on idle/office work load, I will have to get a different fan. Same goes for the case fan. RAM is still provided from my current gaming rig (my new 8 GB DDR3-2666 CL 10 should be arriving here any day...they were only 120€ so I couldn't pass that deal, even though I know it makes barely a difference).

Afterall I think the Core i3 should be plenty fast for the next couple of years. AMD APUs are really out of the question. At the same E-Seller the A10-6700 costs me 130€, while loosing several benchmarks to the i3 and the A8-6500 is 90€. Price/Perfomance is just completely off compared to the new i3 Haswells. Sure GPU is better, but my BF is not gaming and I haven't seen him using any program that takes advantage of GPU acceleration (except of maybe Flash). I don't foresee this changing either.

One remaining question: will the 128 GB SSD be fine? I picked a 256 GB for myself, because it is faster, but my gut tells me, he is really not going to feel the difference?

 

[Essence_of_War]

One remaining question: will the 128 GB SSD be fine? I picked a 256 GB for myself, because it is faster, but my gut tells me, he is really not going to feel the difference?

It will almost certainly be fine. Usually the 256GB ones bench better than the 128GB ones, but as long as it isn't being filled more than ~80% full, it should be excellent.

 

[Galatian]

It will almost certainly be fine. Usually the 256GB ones bench better than the 128GB ones, but as long as it isn't being filled more than ~80% full, it should be excellent.

Great, I intend to install Windows and Office on the SSD. I think it should be big enough for that.