New - Nvidia 560 Ti 448 Cores, ETA 11/29

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happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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I am predicting a gtx575 in the future as well

This is why they named it the gtx560ti.
New line up

gtx585 10% faster like the gtx285 to the gtx280
gtx575 10% faster than the gtx570
gtx560ti 448 core just like the gtx260 (216), 10% faster than the gtx560ti
gtx560ti just like the gtx260 192 core, will fade away just like the gtx260 192 did.

What this means is, we won't see new cards till April next year and they know AMD will release by Febuary. Given that not many people buy cards in the spring, they won't lose much ground.


Make sense now?
 
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skipsneeky2

Diamond Member
May 21, 2011
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This is why they named it the gtx560ti.
New line up

gtx585 10% faster like the gtx285 to the gtx280
gtx575 10% faster than the gtx570
gtx560ti 448 core just like the gtx260 (216), 10% faster than the gtx560ti
gtx560ti just like the gtx260 192 core, will fade away just like the gtx260 192 did.

What this means is, we won't see new cards till April next yea and they know AMD will release by Febuary. Given that not many people buy cards in the spring, they won't lose much ground.


Make sense now?

gtx585 would be the less sensible of the products i doubt anyone will drop $500 into a 500 series this late in the game...kepler is almost here.

The rest of the new lineup would have you reading reviews and drinking coffee till your brain hurts...unless the new lineup is coming in at the same price point as earlier models in the same performance range.

Radeon needs to start getting stupid and start making some 4gb 6960 and 6980 cards just so we can all pull our hair out .
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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gtx585 would be the less sensible of the products i doubt anyone will drop $500 into a 500 series this late in the game...kepler is almost here.

The rest of the new lineup would have you reading reviews and drinking coffee till your brain hurts...unless the new lineup is coming in at the same price point as earlier models in the same performance range.

Radeon needs to start getting stupid and start making some 4gb 6960 and 6980 cards just so we can all pull our hair out .

They always make a ultra type product, it would not surprise me.
6800 ultra
8000gtx ultra
gtx 285
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,147
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This is why they named it the gtx560ti.
New line up

gtx585 10% faster like the gtx285 to the gtx280
gtx575 10% faster than the gtx570
gtx560ti 448 core just like the gtx260 (216), 10% faster than the gtx560ti
gtx560ti just like the gtx260 192 core, will fade away just like the gtx260 192 did.

What this means is, we won't see new cards till April next year and they know AMD will release by Febuary. Given that not many people buy cards in the spring, they won't lose much ground.


Make sense now?

This doesn't make sense at all to me.

They have nowhere to go on 40nm. GTX 580 is as good as its going to get. If there were to be a 585 it would be on 28nm. The jump from 40nm to 28nm is a much bigger performance leap than 65 to 55 was.

If they made a 580 or a 570 on 28nm it would be able to clock a lot higher and give quite a big performance improvement. Would they really want to do this ? I would think that would mean they are quite behind on Kepler to use 28nm to produce 580s and 570s to compete against AMD's 28nm 7970.

The 7970 would have to be a serious turd to lose out to a 28nm GTX 580. Going on past history as well, there wouldn't be a price cut, probably an increase. A 585 on 28nm would be $500 if we took current prices of the 580 related to how they did pricing on the 280 to 285.

Or perhaps this is their strategy, they may know AMD is going to be first again with a next gen card on 28nm and rather than have nothing at all for six months like they did on 40nm, they'll try to get some mid-range sales with a cheap 585 until they have Kepler ready to go against the 7970.
 

skipsneeky2

Diamond Member
May 21, 2011
5,035
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They always make a ultra type product, it would not surprise me.
6800 ultra
8000gtx ultra
gtx 285

Boatloads of memory would be the main seller for these revised cards.

Radeon has been using 2gb for a while and the 1.25gb of ram the gtx570 has is sorta cutting it close so if this new 448 core of the gtx560ti has at least 2gb of ram it would be a easy sell for me anyways.

Staying clear of any 1gb cards so this card better come with more then 1gb of vram.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
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there is no chance of the gtx560ti 448 being a 2gb card. its 320bit just like the gtx570 so that means 1.25 gb.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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Boatloads of memory would be the main seller for these revised cards.

Radeon has been using 2gb for a while and the 1.25gb of ram the gtx570 has is sorta cutting it close so if this new 448 core of the gtx560ti has at least 2gb of ram it would be a easy sell for me anyways.

Staying clear of any 1gb cards so this card better come with more then 1gb of vram.

I see what your saying..not a bad revised lineup.

gtx585 3gb
gtx575 2.5gb
gtx560ti 448 core 1.25gb
gtx560ti 1gb
 

skipsneeky2

Diamond Member
May 21, 2011
5,035
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there is no chance of the gtx560ti 448 being a 2gb card. its 320bit just like the gtx570 so that means 1.25 gb.

Haven't read much about this new card but is overall memory bandwidth and texture fillrate the same as the gtx570 or close?

I'm sure this card would be replacing the gtx560 ti by market unless its gonna be in its own special price point?
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
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NO one in this thread mentioned a AMD card to compare it to.



We are talking about Nvidia card/s and naming.


Yeah well, they make cards to stay competitive, and a good portion of their motive for releasing what and when they do is driven by that.

Just not seeing the 585 and 575, seen that whole story somewhere before :D

Try not to forget that the 580 and 570 are a 485 and 475 in all but name. They've already done the whole refresh thing.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
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I hope this thing falls in the $199-219 range. 2 of those in SLI will mop the floor with a GTX580. Still, considering 6950 2GBs were going for $230-240 in February/March....a $200 card that's barely faster is kinda meh. At this point, I am all ears about any Kepler or HD7000 news ;) We are at the end of a 2.5+ year marathon since HD5870 launched in Sept 2009. The next generation of cards should be extremely powerful and overwhelm any game currently out, and make BF3 wish it had a high-rez texture pack!!

If Kepler has 768 cores with 900mhz clock speeds, it's going to make GTX580's performance look mid-range. hehe
 
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happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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Haven't read much about this new card but is overall memory bandwidth and texture fillrate the same as the gtx570 or close?

I'm sure this card would be replacing the gtx560 ti by market unless its gonna be in its own special price point?

If you havent noticed lately the gtx570 has gone up about 20$ to about 300$AR and the gtx560ti has gone down about 20$ to about 200$AR.

I think we are looking at about 240$ for this card, the same MSRP as the gtx560ti.
 

skipsneeky2

Diamond Member
May 21, 2011
5,035
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GTX560 Ti 448 Cores for $199? Let's hope so. 2 of those in SLI will mop the floor with a GTX580. Still, considering 6950 2GBs were going for $230-240 in February/March....a $200 card that's barely faster is kinda meh. At this point, I am all ears about any Kepler or HD7000 news ;) We are at the end of a 2.5+ year marathon since HD5870 launched in Sept 2009. The next generation of cards should be extremely powerful and overwhelm any game currently out, and make BF3 wish it had a high texture pack!!

If Kepler has 768 cores with 900mhz clock speeds, it's going to send used GTX580 prices to $250. hhee

Don't mention the sandbags in BF3 lol

If the gtx560 ti 448 core can come in at $250 or less with slight performance improvements that alone would be the seller for me.

Had a gtx560 non ti that i refunded but the right settings at 1600x1200 high and i would run out of vram in BF3...dx error heaven too.

Good stuff:thumbsup:
 
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tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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If Kepler has 768 cores with 900mhz clock speeds, e

I think this is a very reasonable assumption. I'm betting that Nvidia took a more conservative approach in die size this time, and instead went after performance efficiency and throughput. In other words, I think a 768 core is likely the high end card's core count, but I think it's cores will be more efficient, therefore making a 768 core clocked at the same speed of the gtx580 be more than 50% faster.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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I think this is a very reasonable assumption. I'm betting that Nvidia took a more conservative approach in die size this time, and instead went after performance efficiency and throughput. In other words, I think a 768 core is likely the high end card's core count, but I think it's cores will be more efficient, therefore making a 768 core clocked at the same speed of the gtx580 be more than 50% faster.

768? hahaaha no way man, it will be at least! 896 cores!. I would bet on 960 though. Its either 2x the gtx470 or 2x the gtx480.

Remember it will at least tie the gtx590, just like the gtx480 beat or tied the gtx295.
 
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ocre

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2008
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I see what your saying..not a bad revised lineup.

gtx585 3gb
gtx575 2.5gb
gtx560ti 448 core 1.25gb
gtx560ti 1gb

This 448 core 560 is just a limited edition card most likely to clear out gf110 stock. I bet they are gonna be a killer deal. I dont believe they are gf110s that couldnt make the cut, they have OEM for this. I heard (and believe) they will be a specialty card limited edition probably wont be around for too long.


Also
I seriously doubt any of those other cards ever come out.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
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If you havent noticed lately the gtx570 has gone up about 20$ to about 300$AR and the gtx560ti has gone down about 20$ to about 200$AR.

I think we are looking at about 240$ for this card, the same MSRP as the gtx560ti.

If you keep looking out for deals, you can generally find a GTX570 for $260-270.

Superbiiz has a $258.99 deal after MIR and $20 off with coupon: Rally.

But if NV released the 560 ti 448 core version for $199-219 with rebates, then there will be little reason to even have the 570. But if NV prices the 560ti 448 for $249, then I think it's way too high as well since we are nearly at the very end of the current generation. I really don't see how they can price the 560ti 448 attractively without making the 570 obsolete.
 

wahdangun

Golden Member
Feb 3, 2011
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yes that's why they did it...just to confuse people. this card will be priced a little higher and perform a little better so whats the problem? the person that cant figure out this card, probably cant figure out anything else when it comes to computers.

just wait until someone trying to SLIed it with "real" GTX560ti
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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768? hahaaha no way man, it will be at least! 896 cores!. I would bet on 960 though. Its either 2x the gtx470 or 2x the gtx480.

Remember it will at least tie the gtx590, just like the gtx480 beat or tied the gtx295.

A 768 core chip, with optimizations and added benefit of higher clock speed ceilings because of the better tech node would beat a gtx590. Jen-sen Huang has been beating the "performance per watt" drum heavily since he first started talking about Kepler and I'm betting Nvidia wanted to make sure Kepler's GK100 is smaller than GF110 AND has better throughput per core, per mhz.

768 cores doesn't sound particularly impressive in it's own right, but when you add 10% performance improvements per core vs. GF110 and 20% higher clock speeds thanks to 28nm node technology, a 768 core GK100 will match gtx570's in SLI.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
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do gpus ever get faster clock for clock on the same amount of cores? if anything they seem to get slower. a 336sp gtx460 was no faster clock for clock than the 240sp gtx285. yes I know there are more things involved such as memory bandwidth and such. IMO we just dont see the same type of improvements though as cpus seem to get. it seems they have to keep throwing more and more cores at gpus though while using more and more power. we are already at a point where high end cards have have to throttle clocks under excessive loads.
 
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happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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A 768 core chip, with optimizations and added benefit of higher clock speed ceilings because of the better tech node would beat a gtx590. Jen-sen Huang has been beating the "performance per watt" drum heavily since he first started talking about Kepler and I'm betting Nvidia wanted to make sure Kepler's GK100 is smaller than GF110 AND has better throughput per core, per mhz.

768 cores doesn't sound particularly impressive in it's own right, but when you add 10% performance improvements per core vs. GF110 and 20% higher clock speeds thanks to 28nm node technology, a 768 core GK100 will match gtx570's in SLI.

Well I expect chips that are in the 250 watt range at the high end for Keplar.
SO how much smaller is 28nm vs 40nm? Half? more than half the size?
If its half as small they could just double everything on the gtx580 and come in under 250 watts.

A gtx680 will be as fast or faster than a gtx590, this I garuantee.

I'm expecting a monster gtx680 Keplar chip with over 1000 cores, a fixed 512bit memory controller, at 250 watts @ about 800 core speed. This will have about a 8 month shelve life.

Then, I expect a refined gtx780 later (late 2012) with much higher clocks and less leakage, same power draw, like they did with the gtx460 to gtx 560. (675 core to 810 core)

http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/28nm.htm

http://www.globalfoundries.com/technology/28nm.aspx

"GLOBALFOUNDRIES' HKMG enables full scaling from 40nm in area and performance; i.e., 28nm delivers twice the gate density of industry standard 40nm processes and an SRAM cell size shrink of more than 50 percent (cell size of 0.120 square micrometers for dense single port). 28nm transistors offer up to 60% higher performance than 40nm at comparable leakage with up to 50% lower energy per switch and 50% lower static power. As a leading manufacturer of x86 CPU's, GLOBALFOUNDRIES well understands the constraints and trade-offs of performance, power and area. "
 
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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
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do gpus ever get faster clock for clock on the same amount of cores? if anything they seem to get slower. a 336sp gtx460 was no faster clock for clock than the 240sp gtx285. yes I know there are more things involved such as memory bandwidth and such.

We often just look at shaders because it's the easiest # to remember/compare. As a result, it looks like a 336 SP card is barely faster than a 240 SP card. In reality, shaders are no more important than ROPs or TMUs are. The GPU needs to be well balanced or at any one point it can have "too much" of 1 thing and "too little" of another. Classic examples are bucket loads of memory bandwidth in 4870/4890 despite barely faster performance over HD5770 with nearly half the memory bandwidth. Another example is 5830 being way faster on paper than HD4890 was, but in real world, being completely ROP starved. And then we have HD6970 with 71% more texture fill-rate than a GTX580, but it can't really use that advantage because it's bottlenecked somewhere else.

In fact, ROPs can also be critical. When HD5830 cut the # of ROPs from 32 in 5870 to 16, its performance plummeted to barely faster than HD4890 despite having 1120 shaders @ 800mhz vs. 800 shaders @ 850 for the 4890. And despite having 56 TMUs and as much memory bandwidth, the 5830 was barely faster than the 4890. The GPU became almost entirely ROP starved.

GTX460 vs. GTX285
Pixel fill-rate (# ROPs x clocks) = 21600 MPixels/sec vs. 20736 MPixels/sec
Texture fill-rate (# TMUs x clocks) = 37800 MTexels/sec vs. 51840 MTexels/sec
Memory bandwidth = 115.2 GB/sec vs. 158.976 GB/sec

On paper, GTX285 should crush the GTX460 without question. And yet, GTX460 is pretty much as fast!

Clearly, Fermi is far more efficient than GT200b was. Or another way to look at it, GT200b had way too much memory bandwidth and texture performance than it could actually utilize. Comparing shaders across same generation makes a lot of sense (such as GTX460 vs. 470 vs. 570 vs. 580, etc.). But comparing shaders with previous generations can often lead to misleading / erroneous results since performance in ROPs and TMUs can have a dramatic impact on performance.

Then there are small improvements that often go unnoticed (because most games might not benefit from them) even in the same generation. GF110 improved FP16 performance. Some games benefited well from this such as Dirt 2 where GTX570 is 8% faster than a GTX480. Looking at specs of GTX480 vs. 570, there is no way the GTX570 should be leading by 8%.

Similarly, removing shaders may not necessarily reduce performance. HD6870 compensates with much higher clock speeds vs. the 5850 despite far fewer shaders.
 
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