New Nexus 7 has a quadcore Krait, ditches Tegra

[scannall]

How much performance do you need in a tablet?! I've not found an app my Galaxy S2 can't run adequately. What apps are people running that require all this power?!

Benchmarks of course. Terribly important to everyday life dont'cha know.

 

[jacktesterson]

s4 pro is pretty disappointing. the plain ole s4 in my razr m is pretty mediocre, noticeable delay and studder sometimes, and noticeably slower than the omap in my razr, even though its clocked quite a bit higher. so im not so sure this is that great of an upgrade really, if you axed me, ya know, if y'axed me...

You have something wrong. The S4 Dual Core Kraits /Adreno 225 was really the first chipset that made Android feel fluid in my opinion, and even out benches the Tegra 3 at many tasks, especially once overclocked. (Especially on CPU side of things)

The S4 Pro can handle any app out there with ease. It can handle screens up to 1080p without issue too. Just look at the Sony ZL and it's benchmarks. I just traded mine in for a HTC One and even though the S600 is faster, I don't notice any difference in day to day usage.

 

[tential]

How much performance do you need in a tablet?! I've not found an app my Galaxy S2 can't run adequately. What apps are people running that require all this power?!

XBMC interface would be smoother with more power. But it works perfectly fine for me right now anyway so I don't care.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

How much performance do you need in a tablet?! I've not found an app my Galaxy S2 can't run adequately. What apps are people running that require all this power?!

There are plenty. Gaming is one thing. My friend's lags when he's just scrolling across his home screen too.

 

[FearfulSPARTAN]

There are plenty. Gaming is one thing. My friend's lags when he's just scrolling across his home screen too.

Really, hard to believe this chip is already last years qualcomm cpu. I remember that chip was great and every phone maker in the us was using one because of the integrated lte. I would assume its software because there is no way it should be lagging. If my s2 snapdragon isnt lagging scrolling across home screens in android 4.0 an s4 of all things shouldnt.

 

[NTMBK]

Oh right. The Nexus series has no HDMI output. :awe:

1. Who even has a 4k display?
2. What 4k content is available?
2. Why would you want to tether your touchscreen portable device to your TV?

 

[pelov]

1. Who even has a 4k display?
2. What 4k content is available?
2. Why would you want to tether your touchscreen portable device to your TV?

Don't be silly. Everyone knows that people who buy $10,000 TVs will also buy bargain tablets.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

You have something wrong. The S4 Dual Core Kraits /Adreno 225 was really the first chipset that made Android feel fluid in my opinion, and even out benches the Tegra 3 at many tasks, especially once overclocked. (Especially on CPU side of things)

The S4 Pro can handle any app out there with ease. It can handle screens up to 1080p without issue too. Just look at the Sony ZL and it's benchmarks. I just traded mine in for a HTC One and even though the S600 is faster, I don't notice any difference in day to day usage.

both of my phones have very few non-essential apps and crap on them, i doubt its something "wrong". it could be the different overlays or maybe motorola purposely janked it a bit to give it a more mid-range feel

 

[Gloomy]

How much performance do you need in a tablet?! I've not found an app my Galaxy S2 can't run adequately. What apps are people running that require all this power?!

I used to say the same thing, until getting a convertible tablet forced me to compare a Core i7-3537U to a Tegra 3. Turns out you can notice performance differences even in tablets, heyoooo.

Seriously though, the difference in the time it takes to do something simple like render a webpage or pdf is extremely jarring-- two things which are generally considered to be something a tablet is suited for. I welcome any improvement in performance. You really can never have enough.

 

[shady28]

Sounds like a software/configuration problem. S4 is substantially faster than OMAP4460.

No, normal S4 is about like an OMAP4 4460, slightly slower even. The OMAP4 4470 benches faster than a Tegra 3 on Geekbench, and is what is used in the Kindle Fire HD and Nook HD. It has about double the memory bandwidth of Tegra and was one of the first outside Apple to use an SGX543.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Texas-Instruments-TI-OMAP-4470-SoC.87003.0.html

OMAP is not a sexy brand, but until the end of 2011 it was the best non-apple SoC. Even now it is still used by many phones and tablets.

The S4 Pro is a totally different beast and a generation ahead of those chips. Its geekbench scores are about 30-40% higher than that of the Tegra 3, OMAP 4470, or S4.

And frankly, Tegra 3 has always been mediocre at best. The main things it had going for it was a claim on quad core, and a sexy name. They should have used the S4 Pro on the Nexus 7 in the first place.

Tegra 4 is too expensive for this segment. So far it is only appearing in $400+ tablets.

 

[monstercameron]

No, normal S4 is about like an OMAP4 4460, slightly slower even. The OMAP4 4470 benches faster than a Tegra 3 on Geekbench, and is what is used in the Kindle Fire HD and Nook HD. It has about double the memory bandwidth of Tegra and was one of the first outside Apple to use an SGX543.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Texas-Instruments-TI-OMAP-4470-SoC.87003.0.html

OMAP is not a sexy brand, but until the end of 2011 it was the best non-apple SoC. Even now it is still used by many phones and tablets.

The S4 Pro is a totally different beast and a generation ahead of those chips. Its geekbench scores are about 30-40% higher than that of the Tegra 3, OMAP 4470, or S4.

And frankly, Tegra 3 has always been mediocre at best. The main things it had going for it was a claim on quad core, and a sexy name. They should have used the S4 Pro on the Nexus 7 in the first place.

Tegra 4 is too expensive for this segment. So far it is only appearing in $400+ tablets.

first, tegra can support 32bit ddr3-1500 ~6GB/s and the omap 4470 supports lpddr2 466[932MHz effective?] 32bit*2 channels @~7.5GB/s

secondly,do you have a price, do you have a source on that? I dont think a 28nm t4 would be more expensive than is 40nm predecessor.

 

[soccerballtux]

nobody implements dual channel memory interfaces with ARM chips though.
and by nobody I mean only 10% do or so.

My bets are on Nvidia wouldn't give Google a good price.

 

[Exophase]

No, normal S4 is about like an OMAP4 4460, slightly slower even.

I like how you say this then link Geekbench scores which show it substantially higher... So I guess you must think Krait 200 is significantly slower than Cortex-A9 at the same clock speed, which is generally not the case at all.

 

[Bryf50]

I like how you say this then link Geekbench scores which show it substantially higher... So I guess you must think Krait 200 is significantly slower than Cortex-A9 at the same clock speed, which is generally not the case at all.

More than generally not the case. Its the complete opposite case. Krait completely wrecks Cortex-A9. Dual-Core krait socs compete with Quad-Core A9 socs.

And people seriously disappointed with S4 Pro on a budget tablet. Snapdragon 600 is only slightly faster on the cpu side and has the same gpu but slightly higher clocked.

 

[dguy6789]

No, normal S4 is about like an OMAP4 4460, slightly slower even.

You are mistaken. Omap 4 is Cortex A9 based. It's slightly faster than Snadragon S3 clock per clock. Snapdragon S4 is massively faster than Cortex A9. So much so in fact that the dual core Snapdragon S4 competes well with quad core Cortex A9 SOCs.

I wish threads like these took place in the gadgets section of AT. People in the cpu section of AT know so little about Arm and Arm like designs.

 

[shady28]

I like how you say this then link Geekbench scores which show it substantially higher... So I guess you must think Krait 200 is significantly slower than Cortex-A9 at the same clock speed, which is generally not the case at all.

I was assuming you could use the benchmark browser at the link, and understood that there are many sub models (S4, S4+, S4 Pro). I guess not.

That link shows the OMAP4 4470 8% faster tab the S4 Plus (msm8930)

The S4+ : 1276
4470. : 1381

But I was responding to a post about a generic S4, like the one used in the HTC Desire X, not an S4 Plus.

The generic one scores 545.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Qualcomm-Qualcomm-Snapdragon-S4-MSM8225-Processor.88819.0.html

A Krait Snapdragon 200 I said nothing about. That is 2013 intro chip, these other chips are late 2011 (Omap) and early 2012 (S4) 45nm chips.

I would expect the S4 Pro to beat an Snapdragon 200 in most regards though, probably closer in performance to the newer Snapdragon 400.

 

[Bryf50]

I was assuming you could use the benchmark browser at the link, and understood that there are many sub models (S4, S4+, S4 Pro). I guess not.

That link shows the OMAP4 4470 8% faster tab the S4 Plus (msm8930)

The S4+ : 1276
4470. : 1381

But I was responding to a post about a generic S4, like the one used in the HTC Desire X, not an S4 Plus.

The generic one scores 545.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Qualcomm-Qualcomm-Snapdragon-S4-MSM8225-Processor.88819.0.html

A Krait Snapdragon 200 I said nothing about. That is 2013 intro chip, these other chips are late 2011 (Omap) and early 2012 (S4) 45nm chips.

I would expect the S4 Pro to beat an Snapdragon 200 in most regards though, probably closer in performance to the newer Snapdragon 400.

There never were any 45nm S4 socs.I think I see some of the confusion. There were some really low end Cortex-A5 socs that Qualcomm called S4 Play. But still S4 plus(or anything krait based) is much faster than OMAP 4.

MSM 8960 is s4 plus. Several OMAP 4430/60 devices on there. The OMAP 4470 has the same cpu performance as the 4430 only slightly upclocked. It's not even close.

 

[shady28]

You are mistaken. Omap 4 is Cortex A9 based. It's slightly faster than Snadragon S3 clock per clock. Snapdragon S4 is massively faster than Cortex A9. So much so in fact that the dual core Snapdragon S4 competes well with quad core Cortex A9 SOCs.

I wish threads like these took place in the gadgets section of AT. People in the cpu section of AT know so little about Arm and Arm like designs.

And I wish people would actually understand the product lineups before speaking.

The regular old S4 gets CRUSHED by an 4470.

An S4+ is about equal.

An S4 Pro is superior.

 

[Exophase]

You're kidding me.

It says it right here in the link you gave: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Texas-Instruments-TI-OMAP-4470-SoC.87003.0.html

Geekbench 2 scores 418 on OMAP4460 and OMAP4470 on 438. And it says MSM8260A scores 514.3. Guess what, that SoC is one of the Snapdragon S4 variants. And guess what else, Snapdragon S4 has two Krait 200 cores. Need I remind you again, you were the one who brought up Geekbench scores.

I'll say it again, if you think Krait 200 cores (not Snapdragon 200, that's the name of the CPU in the SoC.. do you actually understand the distinction?) are significantly slower than Cortex-A9 cores clock per clock then you need to learn a lot more about ARM CPUs.

Apparently that thing you keep calling "regular S4" is actually S4 PLAY, a Cortex-A5 SoC released AFTER the first S4 SoCs that features Krait 200s. Incidentally the Razr M you originally referred to is NOT an S4 Play but S4 Plus so you can't even keep it straight yourself. But it really is S4 Plus that people generally refer to when they say S4, you know, because it was the first one out and only got rebranded to "Plus" later.

More than generally not the case. Its the complete opposite case. Krait completely wrecks Cortex-A9. Dual-Core krait socs compete with Quad-Core A9 socs.

I was being very conservative with that statement There are a few odd tests that show Krait 200 with IPC near or even slightly below some Cortex-A9s (could be because the data prefetch isn't good on the 200s) but those are the rare exception, like you say usually Krait 200 has significantly better IPC.

 

[Sable]

I used to say the same thing, until getting a convertible tablet forced me to compare a Core i7-3537U to a Tegra 3. Turns out you can notice performance differences even in tablets, heyoooo.

Seriously though, the difference in the time it takes to do something simple like render a webpage or pdf is extremely jarring-- two things which are generally considered to be something a tablet is suited for. I welcome any improvement in performance. You really can never have enough.

On the desktop I completely agree you can never have enough power. But on the tablet using at most one finger or two thumbs on a single app? And I've never noticed any slowness in rendering web pages on Nexus either 7 or S2.

You're always gonna be hindered/limited by the interface so again I ask, what need for all this CPU power? (obviously apart from running benchmarks and then being able to say HAHA Apple sucks/Nvidia sucks/Samsung sucks.

 

[dguy6789]

And I wish people would actually understand the product lineups before speaking.

The regular old S4 gets CRUSHED by an 4470.

An S4+ is about equal.

An S4 Pro is superior.

You're completely totally off your rocker if you think Cortex A9 is comparable to Snapdragon S4. Snapdragon S4 vs A9 is like Radeon 9700 vs Geforce 4. They're an entire generation apart. Do a tiny bit of research before posting on forums about stuff please you might spread misinformation.

 

[beno619]

I wish threads like these took place in the gadgets section of AT. People in the cpu section of AT know so little about Arm and Arm like designs.

+1

Tegra is junk but nVidia's latest T4 is expensive as well as late.

Even if Google wanted T4 nVidia wouldn't have been ready and the N7 would still be in the labs testing various ways to keep the dog of a SOC cool without a fan.

Qualcomm are the kings right now and the S4 Pro is more than adequate for a

 

[acx]

You're kidding me.

It says it right here in the link you gave: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Texas-Instruments-TI-OMAP-4470-SoC.87003.0.html

Geekbench 2 scores 418 on OMAP4460 and OMAP4470 on 438. And it says MSM8260A scores 514.3. Guess what, that SoC is one of the Snapdragon S4 variants. And guess what else, Snapdragon S4 has two Krait 200 cores. Need I remind you again, you were the one who brought up Geekbench scores.

I'll say it again, if you think Krait 200 cores (not Snapdragon 200, that's the name of the CPU in the SoC.. do you actually understand the distinction?) are significantly slower than Cortex-A9 cores clock per clock then you need to learn a lot more about ARM CPUs.

Apparently that thing you keep calling "regular S4" is actually S4 PLAY, a Cortex-A5 SoC released AFTER the first S4 SoCs that features Krait 200s. Incidentally the Razr M you originally referred to is NOT an S4 Play but S4 Plus so you can't even keep it straight yourself. But it really is S4 Plus that people generally refer to when they say S4, you know, because it was the first one out and only got rebranded to "Plus" later.



I was being very conservative with that statement There are a few odd tests that show Krait 200 with IPC near or even slightly below some Cortex-A9s (could be because the data prefetch isn't good on the 200s) but those are the rare exception, like you say usually Krait 200 has significantly better IPC.

The graph that says Geekbench 32 bit in comparison in the link is compares Geekbench 32bit Stream scores and not Geekbench 32bit Total Score.

 

[shady28]

You're kidding me.

It says it right here in the link you gave: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Texas-Instruments-TI-OMAP-4470-SoC.87003.0.html

Geekbench 2 scores 418 on OMAP4460 and OMAP4470 on 438. And it says MSM8260A scores 514.3. Guess what, that SoC is one of the Snapdragon S4 variants. And guess what else, Snapdragon S4 has two Krait 200 cores. Need I remind you again, you were the one who brought up Geekbench scores.

I'll say it again, if you think Krait 200 cores (not Snapdragon 200, that's the name of the CPU in the SoC.. do you actually understand the distinction?) are significantly slower than Cortex-A9 cores clock per clock then you need to learn a lot more about ARM CPUs.

Apparently that thing you keep calling "regular S4" is actually S4 PLAY, a Cortex-A5 SoC released AFTER the first S4 SoCs that features Krait 200s. Incidentally the Razr M you originally referred to is NOT an S4 Play but S4 Plus so you can't even keep it straight yourself. But it really is S4 Plus that people generally refer to when they say S4, you know, because it was the first one out and only got rebranded to "Plus" later.



I was being very conservative with that statement There are a few odd tests that show Krait 200 with IPC near or even slightly below some Cortex-A9s (could be because the data prefetch isn't good on the 200s) but those are the rare exception, like you say usually Krait 200 has significantly better IPC.

Instructions for computer neophytes on using the above link:

Scroll down to where it says "Geekbench 2 - Total Score"

Take note the min,avg, max score (1367-1395) of the 4470

Click the little plus mark next to "show comparison chart"

Take note of the location of OMAP 4470 on the chart.

Note that it says -3% next to Tegra 3. This means the Tegra 3 has a 3% lower score.

Take note of the location of the MSM8930. Note the -8% next to this chip.

Click on the link for the MSM8930. Note in the first sentence it is an S4 Plus.

Now go back to the geekbench scores under "show comparison chart" click on the MSM8260A.

Note the avg geekbench for this chip is lower than the 4470s.

Now scroll to the top. Note in sentence 2 of the description the word Krait :

"The Qualcomm MSM8260A (Snapdragon S4 series) is a ARM based high-end smartphone SoC in 2012. It contains two Krait (ARMv7) CPU cores..."

Now realize that the 4470 beats this dual core Krait. Also realize that we were talking about the S4, not the S4+, which has Krait cores.

This just goes to show the power of marketing and perception. Sexy words like Snapdragon,Krait, and Tegra win perception games against acronyms like OMAP. It's too bad we will never have an OMAP 5, the 4 was vastly underrated.

By the way, the picture you looked at was a sub test within Geekbench - stream. The overall score I was referring to includes integer, memory, float, and stream.

 

[jacktesterson]

And I wish people would actually understand the product lineups before speaking.

The regular old S4 gets CRUSHED by an 4470.

An S4+ is about equal.

An S4 Pro is superior.

This is as false as anything I've read here today.