new MS OS?????

[notfred]

Originally posted by: aswedc

Define "better". If by "better" you mean "easier" then, no linux does not have a better interface. If by "better" you mena "more powerful" then, yes linux is better.

Is Linux a more powerful OS? Yes. Does Linux have a more powerful user interface? - No.

if you add graphical to the front of your bold type there, I'll agree with you. Linux is built upon a long history of command line based OS'es. It has a very powerful, but definitely not easy or friendly command line. The GUIs for Linux haven't developed as far as windows, that's true, however, they have developed to where they are now very quickly (just look at the progress of KDE over the last years, compared to the progress of windows since win95 came out). I think in another couple years the linux GUIs will equal those of MS.

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: aswedc

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: aswedc
Not until Longhorn in 2005 I think. Plenty of time for the Linux distros to get their act together.

uhh..they already have their act togerther.

So they say. People that think Linux is ready for real use keep on arguing about things like how its easier to install than Windows. Ok so maybe the modern distros are, but who gives damn when its still impossible to use once you get going. For example, lets say I wanna upgrade my web browser. I go to the Mozilla site, and grab the RPM. Double click, installs, WTF where did it go? How do you start it? Half an hour later when you figure that out, why do the fonts look like ass? Not to mention the default Linux download is a archive that has to be unpcked rather then installed! The only distro that is even moving in the right direction is the impressive new RedHat beta, IMHO.

tar -zvxf mozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu-1.1.sea.tar.gz
cd mozilla-installer
./mozilla-installer

Just cause you don't know how to use it doesn't mean it's hard.
"It doesn't work like windows, it's too hard!"
Had you been using linux this whole time, and someone showed you windows, you'd be going "how the hell do I extract a tar.gz file?! What you have to downlaod a seperate program? Windows in too much of a pain in the ass!"

Hmm, let's see. To install Mozilla in Windows, all I would need to do is double-click in the installer, and click next a few times. Good luck convincing ANYONE that this more difficult than the Linux installation instructions that you listed above!

Oh, by the way: Extracting a tar.gz file is a cinch if you have WinZip installed. Just double-click on it, and click "Yes" when it asked you to extract the .tar within the GZip file. Not that it really matters, though, as almost all Windows software comes with a self-extracting installer.

 

[aswedc]

I think in another couple years the linux GUIs will equal those of MS.

I agree, which brings me back to my original statement that maybe Linux will be ready for the majority of people to move by the time Longhorn and its ridiculous security systems are required.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob


Hmm, let's see. To install Mozilla in Windows, all I would need to do is double-click in the installer, and click next a few times. Good luck convincing ANYONE that this more difficult than the Linux installation instructions that you listed above!

Oh, by the way: Extracting a tar.gz file is a cinch if you have WinZip installed. Just double-click on it, and click "Yes" when it asked you to extract the .tar within the GZip file. Not that it really matters, though, as almost all Windows software comes with a self-extracting installer.

I didn't say that one or the other was harder, I simply said that installing it ounder linux was not hard.
keypresses to install mozilla in linux:

tar -xzvf moz<tab>
cd moz<tab>n<tab>
./moz<tab>

sure, it's a few more keys than a double click, but there's nothing difficult about it.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: aswedc

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: aswedc
Not until Longhorn in 2005 I think. Plenty of time for the Linux distros to get their act together.

uhh..they already have their act togerther.

So they say. People that think Linux is ready for real use keep on arguing about things like how its easier to install than Windows. Ok so maybe the modern distros are, but who gives damn when its still impossible to use once you get going. For example, lets say I wanna upgrade my web browser. I go to the Mozilla site, and grab the RPM. Double click, installs, WTF where did it go? How do you start it? Half an hour later when you figure that out, why do the fonts look like ass? Not to mention the default Linux download is a archive that has to be unpcked rather then installed! The only distro that is even moving in the right direction is the impressive new RedHat beta, IMHO.

tar -zvxf mozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu-1.1.sea.tar.gz
cd mozilla-installer
./mozilla-installer

Just cause you don't know how to use it doesn't mean it's hard.
"It doesn't work like windows, it's too hard!"
Had you been using linux this whole time, and someone showed you windows, you'd be going "how the hell do I extract a tar.gz file?! What you have to downlaod a seperate program? Windows in too much of a pain in the ass!"

Exactly... it isn't very hard to learn either... It's just different...

 

[Beattie]

Hmm, let's see. To install Mozilla in Windows, all I would need to do is double-click in the installer, and click next a few times. Good luck convincing ANYONE that this more difficult than the Linux installation instructions that you listed above!

Oh, by the way: Extracting a tar.gz file is a cinch if you have WinZip installed. Just double-click on it, and click "Yes" when it asked you to extract the .tar within the GZip file. Not that it really matters, though, as almost all Windows software comes with a self-extracting installer.

you proved his point right there, "If you have winzip installed"

besides stuff comes as packages other than tar.gz, just get an RPM, install that and then type "mozilla" and it runs. Better yet, get a distro like debian, gentoo, or a BSD, and you don't even have to bother looking for the installer file. All of the stuff you need to install any progam is already on your computer

Debian:
apt-get install mozilla

Gentoo:
emerge mozilla

Nothing much simpler than that.

 

[shiner]

That plan would go over like a fart in church.

 

[bmacd]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
That plan would go over like a fart in church.

everybody does it, it's just a matter of finding out who....

-=bmacd=-

 

[Ameesh]

FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD
FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD
FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD
FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD
FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD




btw i work in the "secure networking" group.

 

[Lucky]

I didn't say that one or the other was harder, I simply said that installing it ounder linux was not hard.
keypresses to install mozilla in linux:

tar -xzvf moz<tab>
cd moz<tab>n<tab>
./moz<tab>

sure, it's a few more keys than a double click, but there's nothing difficult about it.

Don't want to sound like a noob here, but I was seriously considering installing linux on one of my machines in the near future. What you just wrote scares the hell out of me. I have no idea what you just wrote or what it means.

 

[GTaudiophile]

More reason to switch to the Mac? Or, a golden opportunity for Apple to port OS X to PCs...

 

[IGBT]

I've heard of LongHorn..and suspect the freedom and utility we presently enjoy on our computers is under attack and the consumer has no representation fighting for our rights. HolyWood idiots are organized and are showering our polititians with bribe money..so how much time do we have left before things change?

 

[UNCjigga]

Mod chip anyone??

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Ameesh
FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD
FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD
FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD
FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD
FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD




btw i work in the "secure networking" group.

Too much neffing not enough securing. Fix your code!

palladium is just another DRM thing. It wont exist just in Windows, but on linux also. You can turn it off and "lose" certain "abilities". No big loss. Most of the "entertainment" out there right now is crap. There will be work arounds and cracks for the unethical people that would like to continue stealing the "content".

Apple isnt a big fan of these types of protections, but they will eventually give into all this. They have already given various recording companies crap for their "copy protected" (read: broken) Compact Disc like plastic circular "music" media things (technically they are not, and cannot be labeled CDs).

RIAA and MPAA are too big really for any one company to fight. And since Microsoft has given up so much (security, powerful interface, consumer rights, etc), they dont have the guts to stand up to the fat cats feeding on the former righst of American citizens.

DRM will not be a "feature" I will ever use. Screw that, I dont need another peice of hardware that could potentially go tits up messing up my computing experience.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Beattie

Hmm, let's see. To install Mozilla in Windows, all I would need to do is double-click in the installer, and click next a few times. Good luck convincing ANYONE that this more difficult than the Linux installation instructions that you listed above!

Oh, by the way: Extracting a tar.gz file is a cinch if you have WinZip installed. Just double-click on it, and click "Yes" when it asked you to extract the .tar within the GZip file. Not that it really matters, though, as almost all Windows software comes with a self-extracting installer.

you proved his point right there, "If you have winzip installed"

besides stuff comes as packages other than tar.gz, just get an RPM, install that and then type "mozilla" and it runs. Better yet, get a distro like debian, gentoo, or a BSD, and you don't even have to bother looking for the installer file. All of the stuff you need to install any progam is already on your computer

Debian:
apt-get install mozilla

Gentoo:
emerge mozilla

Nothing much simpler than that.

Mozilla's code is broken on OpenBSD, so its not quite so simple there.

 

[n0cmonkey]

nord1899 stole my link

Here is a quote (a question from the link) from the HT thread we had on this:

The question is: security for whom? The average user might prefer not to have to worry about viruses, but TCPA won't fix that: viruses exploit the way software applications (such as Microsoft Office) use scripting. He might be worried about privacy, but TCPA won't fix that; almost all privacy violations result from the abuse of authorised access, often obtained by coercing consent. If anything, by entrenching and expanding monopolies, TCPA will increase the incentives to price discriminate and thus to harvest personal data for profiling.

The most charitable view of TCPA is put forward by a Microsoft researcher: there are some applications in which you want to constrain the user's actions. For example, you want to stop people fiddling with the odometer on a car before they sell it. Similarly, if you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy.

Seen in these terms, TCPA and palladium do not so much provide security for the user, but for the PC vendor, the software supplier, and the content industry. They do not add value for the user. Rather, they destroy it, by constraining what you can do with your PC - in order to enable application and service vendors to extract more money from you.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Lucky

I didn't say that one or the other was harder, I simply said that installing it ounder linux was not hard.
keypresses to install mozilla in linux:

tar -xzvf moz<tab>
cd moz<tab>n<tab>
./moz<tab>

sure, it's a few more keys than a double click, but there's nothing difficult about it.

Don't want to sound like a noob here, but I was seriously considering installing linux on one of my machines in the near future. What you just wrote scares the hell out of me. I have no idea what you just wrote or what it means.

linux uses the tab key to finish typing names for you. Let's say you have a directory with these files in it:
--------------------------------
.
..
kde-3.0-tar.gz
mozilla-1.1-tar.gz
xine-i686-tar.gz
--------------------------------

now, to extract a tar file, you do tar -xzvf (name of file).
Since the names of files can be fairly long, you can use tab to complete them.
so, you want to extract the mozilla tar.gz file.
tar -xzvf m<tab>
Since there's no other files that start with 'm', pressing tab will fill in the rest of the name for you.

if you had mozilla-1.1-tar.gz
and mozilla-1.0-tar.gz

in the same directory, you could type:
tar -xzvf m<tab>
and it would fill in the name like this:
mozilla-1.
it would stop there because it didn't know if you wanted 1.1 or 1.0, so you could press '1' and 'tab' again, and it'd fill in the rest of your name, now that it knows you want version 1.1

so, typing: tar - xzvf m<tab>

is just a shortcut to save you having to type:

tar -xzvf mozilla-installer-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz

 

[Ameesh]

winxp does command completion also, just hit tab

 

[nord1899]

Originally posted by: Ameesh
winxp does command completion also, just hit tab

Only took MS a few years and a few revisions of Windows to get that in there. While the *nix world has had it for over a decade. Not to mention, MS is slowing trying to get rid of the command prompt.

 

[silverpig]

Example of the power of linux.

Situation: A crashed app has a few files in use that you really want to get rid of.

Windows: Right click and delete yields "system cannot delete the specified file. It may be in use by another program." Solution: reboot, delete the file

Linux: rm crappyfile.crap yields "file is in use, cannot delete." Solution:

$su
$*****
#rm -rf crappyfile.crap

Problem solved

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: Lucky

I didn't say that one or the other was harder, I simply said that installing it ounder linux was not hard.
keypresses to install mozilla in linux:

tar -xzvf moz<tab>
cd moz<tab>n<tab>
./moz<tab>

sure, it's a few more keys than a double click, but there's nothing difficult about it.

Don't want to sound like a noob here, but I was seriously considering installing linux on one of my machines in the near future. What you just wrote scares the hell out of me. I have no idea what you just wrote or what it means.

linux uses the tab key to finish typing names for you. Let's say you have a directory with these files in it:
--------------------------------
.
..
kde-3.0-tar.gz
mozilla-1.1-tar.gz
xine-i686-tar.gz
--------------------------------

now, to extract a tar file, you do tar -xzvf (name of file).
Since the names of files can be fairly long, you can use tab to complete them.
so, you want to extract the mozilla tar.gz file.
tar -xzvf m<tab>
Since there's no other files that start with 'm', pressing tab will fill in the rest of the name for you.

if you had mozilla-1.1-tar.gz
and mozilla-1.0-tar.gz

in the same directory, you could type:
tar -xzvf m<tab>
and it would fill in the name like this:
mozilla-1.
it would stop there because it didn't know if you wanted 1.1 or 1.0, so you could press '1' and 'tab' again, and it'd fill in the rest of your name, now that it knows you want version 1.1

so, typing: tar - xzvf m<tab>

is just a shortcut to save you having to type:

tar -xzvf mozilla-installer-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz

Errrrrr. User friendly my ass. Call me when you can double click .exes and/or right click on archives to extract them. Two clicks for each of these tasks. Granted for archive management one must go through the oh so complicated task of downloading a shareware archive handing program.

I barely make that many damn keystrokes all day!

 

[TallBill]

lazy turds.. it wasnt that long.. sux tho

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: Lucky

I didn't say that one or the other was harder, I simply said that installing it ounder linux was not hard.
keypresses to install mozilla in linux:

tar -xzvf moz<tab>
cd moz<tab>n<tab>
./moz<tab>

sure, it's a few more keys than a double click, but there's nothing difficult about it.

Don't want to sound like a noob here, but I was seriously considering installing linux on one of my machines in the near future. What you just wrote scares the hell out of me. I have no idea what you just wrote or what it means.

linux uses the tab key to finish typing names for you. Let's say you have a directory with these files in it:
--------------------------------
.
..
kde-3.0-tar.gz
mozilla-1.1-tar.gz
xine-i686-tar.gz
--------------------------------

now, to extract a tar file, you do tar -xzvf (name of file).
Since the names of files can be fairly long, you can use tab to complete them.
so, you want to extract the mozilla tar.gz file.
tar -xzvf m<tab>
Since there's no other files that start with 'm', pressing tab will fill in the rest of the name for you.

if you had mozilla-1.1-tar.gz
and mozilla-1.0-tar.gz

in the same directory, you could type:
tar -xzvf m<tab>
and it would fill in the name like this:
mozilla-1.
it would stop there because it didn't know if you wanted 1.1 or 1.0, so you could press '1' and 'tab' again, and it'd fill in the rest of your name, now that it knows you want version 1.1

so, typing: tar - xzvf m<tab>

is just a shortcut to save you having to type:

tar -xzvf mozilla-installer-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz

Errrrrr. User friendly my ass. Call me when you can double click .exes and/or right click on archives to extract them. Two clicks for each of these tasks. Granted for archive management one must go through the oh so complicated task of downloading a shareware archive handing program.

I barely make that many damn keystrokes all day!

Heh, I barly click when doing real work. Call me when I can runa program without spending 10 minutes looking for it.

Linux solution:
locate executable
or
which executable

Not too complicated. Plus, thankfully, there is a standard. All new software I install gets installed in /usr/local or in something like /opt (but I hate /opt so I dont install stuff there). /usr/local/bin/mozilla& would run mozilla just fine. Unfortunately, Id have to ignore the keyboard to use the stupid mouse.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Ameesh
winxp does command completion also, just hit tab

Welome to the 90's!

Let me know when those "no new features, focus on security" months pay off.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: silverpig
Example of the power of linux.

Situation: A crashed app has a few files in use that you really want to get rid of.

Windows: Right click and delete yields "system cannot delete the specified file. It may be in use by another program." Solution: reboot, delete the file

Linux: rm crappyfile.crap yields "file is in use, cannot delete." Solution:

$su
$*****
#rm -rf crappyfile.crap

Problem solved

I just realized I forgot my root password

forget su, use sudo